Ask a Simple Question 22: Bah weep gragnah weep nini bong

[Rebel7284]

Q66: Can you really stack Extend and Persist to get a 36-hour duration spell? Knee-jerk reaction in my group was 'those probably wouldn't stack', so if they do, I and my clericdin would like a good reason why they do.

No you may not.  You CAN however get 48 hour duration. 24 * 2

The reason you may do this is that, in general,  you are allowed to chose the most beneficial way to apply abilities.  While Empower and Maximize have specific rules text to overwrite this, extend/persist do not.

[Kajhera]

Q66: Can you really stack Extend and Persist to get a 36-hour duration spell? Knee-jerk reaction in my group was 'those probably wouldn't stack', so if they do, I and my clericdin would like a good reason why they do.

No you may not.  You CAN however get 48 hour duration. 24 * 2

The reason you may do this is that, in general,  you are allowed to chose the most beneficial way to apply abilities.  While Empower and Maximize have specific rules text to overwrite this, extend/persist do not.

Whoops, I mixed up empower and extend for some reason. 48 is indeed somewhat more convenient than 36. And okay, comparing it to empower/maximize works to convince me.  Thanks.

[betrayor]

Q66: Can you really stack Extend and Persist to get a 36-hour duration spell? Knee-jerk reaction in my group was 'those probably wouldn't stack', so if they do, I and my clericdin would like a good reason why they do.

Actually extend and persist would give an 48 hours duration....
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't stack.....

[Shiki]

Q67: Just to be sure... Bonus damage from things like, say, Knowledge Devotion or the Eager weapon property only applies once to a single attack's damage, right? As in, multiple dices of damage from, say, 9th-level Warlock's Eldritch Blast doesn't count as more than one damage roll? Or do each die count as a damage roll? Ex: Let's assume you rolled to get +3 with Knowledge Devotion, you're a 9th-level Warlock and you hit your target with your Eldritch Blast with no other modifier. Would the damage be 5d6+3 or 5d6+15?

[kevin_video]

Should be +3 because it's a single attack.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

A single damage roll can have multiple dice, if that's what you're asking.  There are a very few, rare abilities (iaijutsu master) that apply to every die, but they explicitly call it out.

[Shiki]

It is. Thanks.

[betrayor]

Q68When Using the split psionic ray metapsionic feat can you target the same creature or you have to target two different creatures?

[BrokeAndDrive]

A68 Assuming it's just a psionic version of Split Ray, then yes you can target the same creature. They must roll against it twice. It's kind of like a half-priced Twinned spell, or hitting with the same normal and Quickened spell.

Q69 Are intelligent constructs (not living constructs) "immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects)"? Or is that line just from being mindless?

[snakeman830]

A69: All constructs, regardless of intelligence, are immune to those.

[BrokeAndDrive]

That makes Awaken Construct even better. Thanks!

[Bauglir]

Q70

How would a level 6 Sorcerer go about reducing the action required to concentrate on a spell-like ability he happens to have by benefit of being a weird race? Clutch of Orcus, specifically, which I would only ever consider using if doing so doesn't kill the rest of this NPC's rounds.

[kevin_video]

Q 71 Is there a quicker way for a potential vermin lord to cast Giant Vermin than 7th level cleric or druid? Looking for an earlier entry level.

[Rebel7284]

Q70

How would a level 6 Sorcerer go about reducing the action required to concentrate on a spell-like ability he happens to have by benefit of being a weird race? Clutch of Orcus, specifically, which I would only ever consider using if doing so doesn't kill the rest of this NPC's rounds.

A70: The ways I know include
Feat: Familiar Concentration
Spell: Sonorous Humm [from Spell Compendium]
Skill Trick: Swift Concentration [from Complete Scoundrel, only one round]

[Eviltedzies]

The scenario...

Feats Involved
Heighten Spell [PH]
Residual Magic [CM]

1. I cas a Heightened spell, lets say a Fireball, and I increase it's effective level to 9th level. (A +6 level increase.)
2. On my following turn I cast another Fireball. The wording in Residual Magic states "you can apply any one metamagic feat from the first casting to the second. but without any change to the spell level."

Q72: Would I be allowed to apply Heighten Spell at the same level increase (+6) to my second Fireball WITHOUT actually using up a 9th level slot? Despite the fact that Heighten spell specifically states that it increases the spells level, Residual Magic by RAW negates this.

If this is true....

Q73: Heighten spell has a variable in it, the ability to choose how many levels to heighten it by. Now if I spontaneously cast a heightened fireball as a 4th level spell (+1 level increase) followed up by another heightened fireball on the next round, could I theoretically increase the heightened level to a 9th level spell (+6) for free? Since Residual Magic makes no mention of how to deal with metamagics with variable effects, I could argue that I could heighten a spell by +1 level on one round and then free heighten it to my max spell level the next round.

This seems really bad cheese to me, but I'm sure someone has already ruled on this somewhere.

[Rebel7284]

The scenario...

Feats Involved
Heighten Spell [PH]
Residual Magic [CM]

1. I cas a Heightened spell, lets say a Fireball, and I increase it's effective level to 9th level. (A +6 level increase.)
2. On my following turn I cast another Fireball. The wording in Residual Magic states "you can apply any one metamagic feat from the first casting to the second. but without any change to the spell level."

Q72: Would I be allowed to apply Heighten Spell at the same level increase (+6) to my second Fireball WITHOUT actually using up a 9th level slot? Despite the fact that Heighten spell specifically states that it increases the spells level, Residual Magic by RAW negates this.

If this is true....

It's true

Q73: Heighten spell has a variable in it, the ability to choose how many levels to heighten it by. Now if I spontaneously cast a heightened fireball as a 4th level spell (+1 level increase) followed up by another heightened fireball on the next round, could I theoretically increase the heightened level to a 9th level spell (+6) for free? Since Residual Magic makes no mention of how to deal with metamagics with variable effects, I could argue that I could heighten a spell by +1 level on one round and then free heighten it to my max spell level the next round.

This seems really bad cheese to me, but I'm sure someone has already ruled on this somewhere.

I believe this would go under "Two bonuses from the same source don't stack" rule.  This is really not any different from "I cast Empowered Fireball, next round I cast Empowered Fireball"

[The_Mad_Linguist]

The wording in Residual Magic states "you can apply any one metamagic feat from the first casting to the second. but without any change to the spell level."

If it doesn't change the spell level (as you quoted), then guess what?

Heighten does shit.  And by shit, I mean "nothing", since all heighten does is change the spell level, and you can't do that.

[X-Codes]

The wording in Residual Magic states "you can apply any one metamagic feat from the first casting to the second. but without any change to the spell level."

If it doesn't change the spell level (as you quoted), then guess what?

Heighten does shit.  And by shit, I mean "nothing", since all heighten does is change the spell level, and you can't do that.

This is one way to look at it, but this interpretation also means that DMM: Heighten doesn't do shit for the same reason.

Actually, there's a very clear answer in this which is explains Residual Magic's inherent awesomeness and inherent crappiness: You don't apply the metamagic feat to the second spell, you just apply the metamagic effect.  The effect of the metamagic effect you are carrying over in your first example is that of a +6 to spell level ala Heighten Spell.  Therefore, the second fireball is treated as a 9th-level spell cast from a 3rd-level slot, but it is not a Heightened Fireball.

By reading into this a little, I think you can actually use Residual Magic to effectively apply metamagic feats a second time when you use it.  This is because you're simply carrying over the metamagic effect of the first spell, and then applying the feat to the second.  The benefit granted by the Residual Magic feat explicitly does not count as modifying the spell with a metamagic feat.  As such, if you were to cast a CL 10 Empowered Fireball, you would deal 10d6*1.5 damage.  If you then used Residual Magic to apply that effect to a second CL 10 Empowered Fireball, you would deal 10d6*2 damage.  Sometimes, however, this still doesn't work.  With the above example with Heighten spell, you can't adjust it any higher, it's already a 9th-level spell.

[Eviltedzies]

"The second spell doesn't count as being affected by a metamagic feat for the purpose of this benefit (that is, it doesn't entitle you to apply the metamagic feat to a spell you might cast in the following round)."

This seems to suggest that the second spell does count as being effected by a metamagic feat, but it doesn't count only for the purpose of this feat. (Otherwise we could chain this feat off itself endlessly.) I agree that metamagic efft & metamagic feat could be interpretted as two different meanings, but then the quote above would be rendered pointless if your interpretation of Residual Magic only applying a "metamagic effect" and not indeed a feat is correct.

While I agree with you X-Codes that your ruling seems the most likely, the wording is still fairly vague as to what spell level we could Heighten a spell to with a free heighten.

[CyMage]

Q74  If I wanted to combine 2 or 3 items into one what would the final price be?  Each item is 1500, and are the same item slot.  I've done the calculations, but wanted to double check since I've never dealt with combining magic items before.