Should I ban Improved Initiative?

[Hallack]

I'd say, if as the DM you are putting Improved Initiative on most or all your monsters it is you creating the Feat tax for the players forcing them to keep up with what in most cases are going to be disposable one shot foes.   

Probably not as cheesy as loading up with Sudden metamagics for one shot caster foes but to me I think it misses the mark in that vein of 'just because there are best choices mechanically doesn't mean you should always use them, particularly in npc design.'   

Of course, I also get a sense that this may not have been a serious inquiry.

[Mixster]

I mean, seriously, if the fighter really does suck as bad as it seems, then he needs all the help he can get.  giving out free feats to everybody simply dilutes an already sucky class -- why marginalize him more than he already is?

This was my point as well.

[qwvb]

Having a good Initiative score helps the game, but it doesn't break it.

The four three types of combat roles and Improved Initiative
The BSF gets in the way of the mobs/BBEG before them, possibly protecting his group from physical threat. Sweet.
The glass cannon kills stuff before stuff gets to remember it was alive ; oups! 

God controls the battlefield before it really becomes a battlefield. Aw~
or
God casts Celerity and takes his turn before everyone anyway. 

The Waste of space wasted a feat to do nothing usefull faster. Whoa! 


So I don't really see the point in banning it. Maybe you could discourage initiative stacking (dunno how), but no need to just ban this feat only.

[thorian]

At present, for DMs who intelligently assign feats to all their creatures, it's basically a feat tax.  It's so good that anyone will take it, and by giving it to everyone, then everyone's just lost a feat slot.

Effectively, everyone has Improved Initiative in terms of prereqs.

What are your thoughts?

I think next time you should use green font or "sarcasm" tags.

[Sunic_Flames]

I'd say, if as the DM you are putting Improved Initiative on most or all your monsters it is you creating the Feat tax for the players forcing them to keep up with what in most cases are going to be disposable one shot foes.   

Probably not as cheesy as loading up with Sudden metamagics for one shot caster foes but to me I think it misses the mark in that vein of 'just because there are best choices mechanically doesn't mean you should always use them, particularly in npc design.'   

Of course, I also get a sense that this may not have been a serious inquiry.

I fully expect any and all NPCs to be taken out in very short order, typically half a round. Giving them a good Init means they have a better chance of getting an action so they can actually do the things they are designed to do first. And with a proper optimization game, everyone will be IP proofed, so this isn't a problem. Also, there's plenty of other sources of Init. PCs get more of them, and casters also get more of them. Banning the feat just means beatsticks fail at life.

[JaronK]

Damn Mixster, did you have to use THAT quote for your sig?  It's a little out of context...

JaronK

[veekie]

Damn Mixster, did you have to use THAT quote for your sig?  It's a little out of context...

JaronK

I dunno, it's pretty amusing.

[Bloody Initiate]

I don't see the point. What a weird thing to ban.

[Bozwevial]

I really don't see a point to banning it. If you have nothing better on which to spend a feat than Improved Initiative, then something isn't quite right. Besides, I think it's an exaggeration to say that everyone takes the feat--it's useful, but not that useful.

[ninjarabbit]

Yes because it's a useful feat and all useful feats are obviously broken.

[Mixster]

Damn Mixster, did you have to use THAT quote for your sig?  It's a little out of context...

JaronK

I dunno, it's pretty amusing.

You should have consulted your spin-doctor before use.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Damn Mixster, did you have to use THAT quote for your sig?  It's a little out of context...

JaronK

I dunno, it's pretty amusing.

You should have consulted your spin-doctor before use.

Might as well throw this in as well

Players always have something to look forward to with the monk, which boasts the most colorful and unique special abilities of all the character classes.

[Bauglir]

Damn Mixster, did you have to use THAT quote for your sig?  It's a little out of context...

JaronK

I dunno, it's pretty amusing.

You should have consulted your spin-doctor before use.

Might as well throw this in as well

Players always have something to look forward to with the monk, which boasts the most colorful and unique special abilities of all the character classes.

Hey, now, let's be fair. It's good to look forward to a kick in the nuts, too, if only so that you can leap out of the way. Using "look forward" here to mean only anticipation, not eager anticipation.

[Nytemare3701]

If you are going to make initiative relevant again, make it based on 1/2 BAB+Dex mod, as well as removing all sources of +Initiative from the game. This way short of celerity casters AREN'T going first.

Treat it less like a thing to buff, and more like a class feature that mundanes get. After all, a mundane at level 10 had damn well better know what's sneaking up on him or he'd be dead long ago.

[Cephid Arcanis]

um, yeah imp initiative is fine. Only had two characters take it. (one for free with time domain). whats the prob?

If you are going to make initiative relevant again, make it based on 1/2 BAB+Dex mod, as well as removing all sources of +Initiative from the game. This way short of celerity casters AREN'T going first.

That actually sounds like a good idea. I liked the 'advanced D&D' rule of different weapons giving diff. initiative modifiers. Like +4 for rapier, -4 for great sword. Spells could be a flat 0, or maybe -1per spell level.

[Nytemare3701]

If initiative was rolled every round a -Level modifier to initiative would be amazing for replicating longer casting times.

[Bozwevial]

If initiative was rolled every round a -Level modifier to initiative would be amazing for replicating longer casting times.

AD&D spells had their own casting times which modified your initiative count. That said, I'm not terribly fond of adding another roll every round on top of everything else. Having a set list that only changes in certain circumstances (delays/WRT/what have you) is a much easier prospect.

[Caelic]

The whole reason most people haven't converted to 4th ed (besides the expense of a whole new set of books) is that it provides NI options, some of which are superior to others.

"We shall use our NI option again if you do not appease us!"