Author Topic: .... Another Door Opens?  (Read 7587 times)

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Iskajir

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.... Another Door Opens?
« on: January 11, 2011, 04:57:49 AM »
So, my secondary game has been declared dead.  :bigeye
My gnomish wizard powerhouse is no more.   :mad
Worse, I seem to have drawn the short straw on designated skill-monkey/ face. :pout

Ok, to make the best of it, I was going to try out beguiler.... maybe.... I'm really at a loss. I am on the point of giving up, and going to one of the ineffective build threads.

The Rules
All 3.5 WOTC books, except Faerun, Eberron, Dragonlance. Any un-errata'ed 3.0 book. Bo9S is nerfed beyond usefulness. Most of the web enhancements are cool.
Must be a 1st level human, NG or LG only. Starting cash. No flaws.
Nearly all cheese entries into double-casting classes are poopooed.
Rolled stats: 18,16,15,14,13,10.

The Party
Player 1: me. Hi!
Player 2: Psychic Warrior 1. Plans PsyWar2/Fighter2, then??? Dumped INT & CHA
Player 3: melee cleric. Plans Cleric 8/Fist of Raziel 10. Dumped INT & DEX
Player 4: Warmage going towards Elemental Savant, because why would you ever need anything but fire spells?  :banghead
Player 5: no definitive decision, but she always plays some form of Ugh-thwack barbarian, barbarian variant, frenzied beserker, or half-orc paragon.

What I Need
A build that covers a few of that party's gaping holes (trapfinding, social skills, UMD, utility casting, battlefield control), offers flexibility, playable and fun from level 1. Since being PHB human is non-negotiable, Able Learner will likely feature.
Factotum/ Cloistered Cleric makes a nice skill monkey.
Int-based Ultimate Magus would keep up for a while.
Master Spellthief?  ???

Thanks in advance. Any ideas would be great.

Mushroom

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 05:12:26 AM »
Beguiler

Solo

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 05:14:05 AM »
Bard? Binder? Beguiler?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

X-Codes

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 05:18:05 AM »
Take player 4's head and apply boot, IMO.

Jesus that's a lot...  Hmm...

Beguiler 1/Transmuter 5/UM 10/full-caster 4
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 16

Nets Transmuter 17/Beguiler 10 casting at pretty damn good CLs.  Ban Evocation and Enchantment.  Take Immediate Magic and Spontaneous Divination ACFs, as well as Obtain Familiar/Improved Familiar feats when possible (mostly so you can polymorph it into a Troll and have it rape face in melee).  Because holy crap, sometimes I guess you just have to do *everything*...

nijineko

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 05:18:40 AM »
chameleon? since you are already going with able learner....
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Solo

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 05:19:51 AM »
Take player 4's head and apply boot, IMO.
It'll be fun to watch. Like a train wreck, but in slow motion.

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Sohala

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 05:40:35 AM »
Tell the warmage to go a level of sanctified one (kord).

I would say...go marshal one, make sure you select skill focus (diplo) as a first level feat, that way you get a free feat from marshal (retrain skill focus a level two). You could go to level three if you really want, that way you can apply your Cha to two types of checks.

Depending on your level count, take two-four levels of factotum, follow up with Chameleon (take able learner of course).
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Solo

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 05:59:53 AM »
Mention Searing Spell if nothing else.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

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Iskajir

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 06:03:07 AM »
@X-Codes- I have applied combat style, pointy stiletto, and platform style boots to no avail. I am now officially banned from nearly all forms of physical violence against Player 4, or I get no dinner/ Mt. Dew. He is 6-8" inches taller than I, has twice my mass, but whines ineffectually at a pitch reserved mainly for tantrums of extremely spoiled toddlers. He does, however, infallibly arrive on time, with food, beverages, his character sheet, and dice. Any PO (player optimization) ideas you have would be awesome.

Why immediate magic for a transmuter? Frankly, this looks like one of the worst.....
I can however, safely ban evocation. That base is covered.

I may try Beguiler 1/Domain Wiz 4/ UM 10/ etc..... or even Beguiler 2/Wiz 3/ UM 10/x5.... the skill points and extra level in armor may be nice, until I can get gith- or fey- crafted leafweave/ mithral..... and with Practiced Spellcaster, that would put all of my UM levels to advance Wiz.

Able Learner would let me keep up the skill-monkey thing until 5th-level-ish.  I do like Improved/Exalted familar... BoED deeds has a few mini skill monkeys....

@Sohala- I can't tell him anything. To him, arcanists blast. Period. He will blast every round however ineffectually, until he runs of out of blast, then pull out a stick and start beating the BBEG. This does not matter if he is a warmage, wizard, or sorcerer. He seems to object in principle to me not blasting. "Please quit casting haste every combat, and do more fireballs!"  (This of course got him pelted with cheeetos by melee fighters' players.)

Marshal 2/Factotum 4/Chameleon?...... hmmm. So 2 auras, trapfinding, some INT-based skill and combat boosts, 2 1st level arcane spells/day, the chameleon goodies. Stats INT/CHA/DEX/CON/STR/WIS??


@Solo- Is there a trapfinding ACF for bards somewhere? That would be nice..... Or a vestige that grants trapfinding? A quick and mildly intoxicated search didn't turn up either. Searing Spell. Ahhhh. He might go for that.

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2011, 06:05:38 AM »
since you have to be human, ... non-racist SCM? or artificer can do pretty much anything....

then again I've always liked binders

Probably not allowed but thoughtsinger
into thrallherd could be fun...
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Solo

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2011, 06:11:14 AM »
Quote
Is there a trapfinding ACF for bards somewhere? That would be nice..... Or a vestige that grants trapfinding? A quick and mildly intoxicated search didn't turn up either.
Yes, that would be nice.

Quote
I can't tell him anything. To him, arcanists blast. Period. He will blast every round however ineffectually, until he runs of out of blast, then pull out a stick and start beating the BBEG. This does not matter if he is a warmage, wizard, or sorcerer. He seems to object in principle to me not blasting. "Please quit casting haste every combat, and do more fireballs!"  (This of course got him pelted with cheeetos by melee fighters' players.)

Quote
Searing Spell. Ahhhh. He might go for that.

On second thought, don't help him.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Garryl

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2011, 06:14:20 AM »
If you're desperate for trapfinding, you can get it with a feat. Planar Touchstone for Catalogues of Enlightenment gives you a single domain power. The Kobold domain grants trapfinding. Unless I'm mistaken, you don't have to meet the usual racial requirements for racial domains when nabbing the power with PT(CoE). Of course, since I don't have the book and am only working off of what other people talk about, I could easily be mistaken.

On a plus side, you can switch out what benefit you get from it for cheap (something like 250g and 10 xp to change your planar touchstone). If you pick up real trapfinding later, you can switch to something more useful even if your DM disallows retraining.
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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2011, 06:27:14 AM »
ahh trapfinding... psychic rogue
[spoiler]http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b[/spoiler]
just needs that feat for mindlink ... Expanded Knowledge ... for ... y'know....
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Iskajir

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2011, 06:34:56 AM »
Quote
On second thought, don't help him.

Yeah. I try to think of it as helping the party, but I always wind up feeling like this guy-->  :banghead
Or this one  --->  :twitch

Quote
Planar Touchstone for Catalogues of Enlightenment gives you a single domain power. The Kobold domain grants trapfinding.

Require 8 ranks Know (planes). If I get it in class via Factotum Wizard or what not, I could take it as my Level 6 feat. In the meantime, I could goad the Warmage into taking point and hope for the best, or jump up and down and holler at Player 5 until she takes Trap killer..... but otherwise our trap-loving DM will chew us to pieces well before 6th level.

Quote
ahh trapfinding... psychic rogue

I haven't played psionics since 2nd edition. It looks very.... balanced.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 06:40:26 AM by Iskajir »

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2011, 06:40:17 AM »
Require 8 ranks Know (planes). If I get it in class via Factotum or what not, I could take it as my Level 6 feat. In the meantime, I could goad the Warmage into taking point and hope for the best, or jump up and down and holler at Player 5 until she takes Trap killer..... but otherwise our trap-loving DM will chew us to pieces well before 6th level.

hrmmm ... Factotum gets trapfinding anyway at level 1, so you wouldn't need the feat in that case
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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2011, 06:53:03 AM »
Go Ninja 1/Druid 19 with able learner and disable traps :p
Or just be Druid 20 and use the summon elemental reserve feat to spring elementals everywhere :p
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Iskajir

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2011, 07:02:00 AM »
Go Ninja 1/Druid 19 with able learner and disable traps :p

This would free me from needing that pesky "party" thing. More trouble than they are worth anyway.  :evillaugh

veekie

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 07:38:35 AM »
I'm thinking this part is basically tailored for a God Wizard.
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It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

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I can barely read mine.

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Runestar

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2011, 07:49:58 AM »
Quote
Player 4: Warmage going towards Elemental Savant, because why would you ever need anything but fire spells?  :banghead

You know, it's like the designers put both of them in the same splatbook just for the offchance someone might get the idea of combining the two together... :lol
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X-Codes

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Re: .... Another Door Opens?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2011, 08:52:35 AM »
I may try Beguiler 1/Domain Wiz 4/ UM 10/ etc..... or even Beguiler 2/Wiz 3/ UM 10/x5.... the skill points and extra level in armor may be nice, until I can get gith- or fey- crafted leafweave/ mithral..... and with Practiced Spellcaster, that would put all of my UM levels to advance Wiz.

Able Learner would let me keep up the skill-monkey thing until 5th-level-ish.  I do like Improved/Exalted familar... BoED deeds has a few mini skill monkeys....
You really want Wiz 5 for spontaneous divination.  It's 'nifty' for most Wizards to take, but given your particular character's needs I'd really call it more of a necessity.  As for the Transmutation Immediate Magic, I find it useful, and Obtain Familiar will get you a better familiar.  That said, you can probably just stick with the familiar you've got and do just as well, anyway.  So many of the best divinations are really niche, but absurdly useful when you want that particular spell, so you have a hard time justifying their preparation every day, but a harder time going without them if their moment to shine comes the one day you don't prepare them.

Also in the same vein, you're probably going to want to fill out the class with Unseen Seer.  At least 2 levels so you can grab Divine Insight, which is worth all the skill points a character gets, EVER, or as many as 5 levels (getting that last level at ECL 20) so you can grab Choose Destiny.  These are spells you want available spontaneously not because you don't know whether or not you'll cast them, but because you don't know how OFTEN you're going to cast them.