Author Topic: Hexblade Optimization  (Read 13356 times)

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stranglebat

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2011, 03:48:37 AM »
Must have been thinking of something that applied both Cowering and Helpless simultaneously...  Of course, even if it worked at all, it wouldn't work on any creature immune to either critical hits OR fear, which can easily include a substantial proportion of foes.

Is Nightmare Spinner the class that allows you to pierce Mind-Affecting/Fear Immunity with spells?  Try to get the DM to allow you to do that with your Intimidate skill as well.

Finally, if you use Mearls' changes to the Hexblade, then having a DC of 15+Charisma mod will be fine since you pretty much net infinite retries until you land it.

You might be thinking of dreadwitch in heroes of horror at 4th lvl you can affect things normally immune to fear also alot of other goods like class lvlsx2 to intimidate and boosted CL while under a fear effect yourself

Gods_Trick

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2011, 03:53:46 AM »
Must have been thinking of something that applied both Cowering and Helpless simultaneously...  Of course, even if it worked at all, it wouldn't work on any creature immune to either critical hits OR fear, which can easily include a substantial proportion of foes.

Is Nightmare Spinner the class that allows you to pierce Mind-Affecting/Fear Immunity with spells?  Try to get the DM to allow you to do that with your Intimidate skill as well.

Finally, if you use Mearls' changes to the Hexblade, then having a DC of 15+Charisma mod will be fine since you pretty much net infinite retries until you land it.


You might be thinking of dreadwitch in heroes of horror at 4th lvl you can affect things normally immune to fear also alot of other goods like class lvlsx2 to intimidate and boosted CL while under a fear effect yourself

I looked at Dreadwitch first but it lacks one of the spells known to qualify. If you could get it you could get your familiar Never Outnumbered and intimidate you too  :smirk Weird that you're better at scaring people when you're shitting your pants yourself.

stranglebat

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2011, 04:23:35 AM »
12 wis and Hatred domain with Arcane disciple will net you scare. Also if you can grab versatile spell caster and 15 wis you can use 2 4lvl slots at higher levels to cast righteous might :S with that domain if your into that sort of thing either that or at first level take precious apprentice (CAr) and add scare as your free 2nd lvl spell saves you a bit of jibber jabber
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 04:25:20 AM by stranglebat »

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2011, 05:13:49 AM »
Must have been thinking of something that applied both Cowering and Helpless simultaneously...  Of course, even if it worked at all, it wouldn't work on any creature immune to either critical hits OR fear, which can easily include a substantial proportion of foes.

Is Nightmare Spinner the class that allows you to pierce Mind-Affecting/Fear Immunity with spells?  Try to get the DM to allow you to do that with your Intimidate skill as well.

Finally, if you use Mearls' changes to the Hexblade, then having a DC of 15+Charisma mod will be fine since you pretty much net infinite retries until you land it.


You might be thinking of dreadwitch in heroes of horror at 4th lvl you can affect things normally immune to fear also alot of other goods like class lvlsx2 to intimidate and boosted CL while under a fear effect yourself

I looked at Dreadwitch first but it lacks one of the spells known to qualify. If you could get it you could get your familiar Never Outnumbered and intimidate you too  :smirk Weird that you're better at scaring people when you're shitting your pants yourself.
Not really, $10 says this is scarier than her "normal" face:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/8/5/83cb0bd2-69c5-450a-911c-903bfa82d1bc.jpg

As for scare not being on the Hexblade spell list... that seems like an oversight, or an omission of "it's not actually useful at the level they learn it, so we just won't bother putting it there."  They have both Cause Fear and Fear, which are the immediately higher- and lower-level spells in that little sequence.  It's a terrible spell that you're never, EVER going to cast, anyway, you just have to pay a tax on your spells known at 8th-level, which just so happens to be the best point to bail on the base class after the Mearls enhancement.  After that, I suggest taking Dread Witch 4 (if the DM allows), and then taking or leaving the last level depending on whether or not you want what it has to offer.  You can now pierce immunity to fear about 3 levels before it becomes incredibly widespread.

The next big PrC is Abjurant Champion.  The only thing that you're not gaining from Abjurant Champion are the AC bonuses, so I'd think that finding some way to stick Shield and/or (Greater) Mage Armor on your spell list would take high priority once you've gotten your core shtick out of the way.  Your 12th- and maybe 15th-level feats are available for this.

That leaves you with Hexblade 10/Dread Witch 5/Abjurant Champion 5.  If you want, you can drop 1 level of Hexblade for Mindbender and get Mindsight, which is all kinds of useful.  Drop another for a +1 BAB/+1 Casting PrC and you might pick up some other useful oddities, but you really want both the +1 BAB AND the +1 Caster level, because the BAB increases your CL and the 19th caster level gives a ton of spells per day (relative to the overall size of your pool, at least).

Theomniadept

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2011, 07:18:28 PM »
Okay, but where's the Dread Witch PrC? I wanna look at it firsthand.

That was kinda the mentality behind Nightmare Spinner from CMag - I get free fear effects, bonuses to my own effects, and a 3/day save or die that is literally save (and take damage) or die. Granted the one ability to work in a shadow into a glamer or figment Illusion spell can ONLY be used with the Hexblade spell Phantasmal Killer, which is coincidentally the only spell the Hex can take to qualify for that class, but I suppose it'd be worth it for the free fear abilities.

Gods_Trick

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2011, 10:59:41 PM »

Dread Witch is from Heroes of Horror.

Widow

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2011, 04:01:04 AM »
This build is functional and came about in a game where I was only allowed to make a build that used base classes and PrC's from the complete series of books. Your mileage may vary depending on the power level of the other characters in the group, but I had quite a bit of fun with it.

Hexblade 5/ Abjuration champion 2/Divine Crusader 8/ Contemplative 2/ Abjuration Champion 3

L1  Weapon Focus
Human 1 Open
L3  Power Attack
Hexblade 5  Combat Casting
L6 Verastile Spellcaster
L9  Practiced Spellcaster Divine Crusader
L12 Invisible Needle
Divine Crusader 12 Weapon Specialization
L15
L18

I took the force and strenght domain, but it is open to what you like.  Invisible needle mixed with the force domain and verastile spellcaster makes for a warlock lite with 10d4 force needles.  If forgotten realms is open, you can take divine champion 4 in place of4 levels of divine crusader to pick up a 3rd to domain.  The Heroism domain is also interesting if you can pick it up.

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2011, 04:28:06 AM »
What about that build really does... anything... with the Hexblade?

genuine

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2011, 09:56:35 AM »
I've had fun with this build - he's a very effective buffer at low levels. Are you looking for a full 20 build, or are you starting somewhere lower?

I know a lot of people love their familiars, but personally I've always preferred the Dark Companion ACF. A -2 to AC and Saves with no saves or SR? Yes please.

stranglebat

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2011, 12:59:07 PM »
You can both you just need to spend a feat on obtain familar :)

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2011, 01:39:38 PM »
Several improved familiars are sick on a hexblade. Imp and salt mephit :P
For example, Salt mephit has an AC debuffing breath weapon (yay more power attack) and glitterdust once per hour. If you psychic-reformation-it it's eligible for imperious command. And it has full BAB for power attack and the like.
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Aliment

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2011, 01:56:38 PM »
Paladin of Tyranny has that -2 save aura.  Really easy and would make Hexes stick.

Probably just wanna go Human for your race.
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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2011, 03:28:48 PM »
Paladin of Tyranny has that -2 save aura.  Really easy and would make Hexes stick.

And it makes his class features, spells and caster level suck :p
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Theomniadept

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2011, 03:59:11 PM »
Improved Familiar...that's the only feat I'm having trouble with. I'd like a familiar and a good one at that but when the requirements are limitted by subtype and/or alignment it seems a bit dodgy. Is there a list anywhere of all the possible familiars? Seema like something that might exist here.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2011, 04:22:25 PM »
Either go Lawful Evil/Lawful Neutral and Imp or get Planar familiar (Planar Handbook) and Salt Mephit.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2011, 04:41:21 PM »
Improved Familiar...that's the only feat I'm having trouble with. I'd like a familiar and a good one at that but when the requirements are limitted by subtype and/or alignment it seems a bit dodgy. Is there a list anywhere of all the possible familiars? Seema like something that might exist here.
Not sure if it's been ported, but here's D_M's handbook.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870010/The_Familiars_Handbook_--_2007
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Theomniadept

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2011, 02:30:58 AM »
Huh. You know I was contemplating trying to play a Neutral character but I suppose Lawful Evil isn't too bad, right? Right. I'm gonna nab me an Imp. And the Salt Mephit idea's really good too, I'll keep that in mind for my earth-based caster.

Littha

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2011, 02:37:44 PM »
Huh. You know I was contemplating trying to play a Neutral character but I suppose Lawful Evil isn't too bad, right? Right. I'm gonna nab me an Imp. And the Salt Mephit idea's really good too, I'll keep that in mind for my earth-based caster.

for a moment while reading this i could swear that said shit mephit... i need to get some sleep.

Theomniadept

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2011, 01:07:55 AM »
Hehehe...Hey wait! That give me an idea! Look out world, here comes the newest elemental mephit!

I love the way the game's alignments just kinda turn my decisions away without much efffort. "I think I'll play a Neutral character that ends up being an intelligent philosopher of sorts. Oh hey, Imps are good. Oh wait, I need to be Lawful Evil? Well, I've always wanted to have me and a familiar threaten a group of enemies with dissection whilst keeping them alive."

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Hexblade Optimization
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2011, 09:55:38 AM »
Hehehe...Hey wait! That give me an idea! Look out world, here comes the newest elemental mephit!

I love the way the game's alignments just kinda turn my decisions away without much efffort. "I think I'll play a Neutral character that ends up being an intelligent philosopher of sorts. Oh hey, Imps are good. Oh wait, I need to be Lawful Evil? Well, I've always wanted to have me and a familiar threaten a group of enemies with dissection whilst keeping them alive."

Dude. You can be Lawful Neutral and still get the imp.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.