Author Topic: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?  (Read 5036 times)

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Sunic_Flames

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Re: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2011, 09:01:57 AM »
[strike]When you really optimize[/strike] When you play D&D, the game becomes like Shadowrun... combat is so lethal and enemies are so dangerous that you either fight from an ambush position (where you're gaurenteed victory) or you avoid fighting entirely.  Running in headlong will just get you killed by a [strike]pouncing ubercharger[/strike] any routine encounter.  [strike]Scouting[/strike] Divination becomes critical, stealth magic becomes important, even using decoys is a big deal... you start doing things like having the Factotum keep everyone in an enveloping pit with a bottle of air (if they even needed to breathe) while he travels down the road looking like a pauper or sneaks along hidden, just to avoid major ambushes.

It's fun, but it's not for everyone.  And it actually ends up feeling more tense and more realistic.  You don't go into battle without a plan for victory and a plan to escape.

JaronK

Fixed.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2011, 09:31:08 AM »
[strike]When you really optimize[/strike] When you play D&D, the game becomes like Shadowrun... combat is so lethal and enemies are so dangerous that you either fight from an ambush position (where you're gaurenteed victory) or you avoid fighting entirely.  Running in headlong will just get you killed by a [strike]pouncing ubercharger[/strike] any routine encounter.  [strike]Scouting[/strike] Divination becomes critical, stealth magic becomes important, even using decoys is a big deal... you start doing things like having the Factotum keep everyone in an enveloping pit with a bottle of air (if they even needed to breathe) while he travels down the road looking like a pauper or sneaks along hidden, just to avoid major ambushes.

It's fun, but it's not for everyone.  And it actually ends up feeling more tense and more realistic.  You don't go into battle without a plan for victory and a plan to escape.

JaronK

Fixed.
Only if you've gotten into a pissing contest with the DM.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
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Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2011, 09:37:41 AM »
[strike]When you really optimize[/strike] When you play D&D, the game becomes like Shadowrun... combat is so lethal and enemies are so dangerous that you either fight from an ambush position (where you're gaurenteed victory) or you avoid fighting entirely.  Running in headlong will just get you killed by a [strike]pouncing ubercharger[/strike] any routine encounter.  [strike]Scouting[/strike] Divination becomes critical, stealth magic becomes important, even using decoys is a big deal... you start doing things like having the Factotum keep everyone in an enveloping pit with a bottle of air (if they even needed to breathe) while he travels down the road looking like a pauper or sneaks along hidden, just to avoid major ambushes.

It's fun, but it's not for everyone.  And it actually ends up feeling more tense and more realistic.  You don't go into battle without a plan for victory and a plan to escape.

JaronK

Fixed.
Only if you've decided to play D&D.

Fixed.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2011, 09:42:37 AM »
Ah, so Sunic equates "playing DnD" with "a pissing contest with the DM".

That concisely explains everything about his stances on everything.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

skydragonknight

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Re: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2011, 10:02:15 AM »
3.5 games usually require a gentlemen's agreement to play within reason.
3.5 Role-playing games usually require a gentlemen's agreement to play within reason.

Yep. In games where both the player and DMs are optimizers, one of the rules is basically "Don't do anything you don't want used against you.

For example, if you start pulling Candles of Invocation, you'll end up in a wishing contest with the DM.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: How do you fight back against optimized enemies?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2011, 12:02:33 PM »
I see that in addition to scrambling your movement controls, having a mushroom on your head also impedes reading comprehension.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]