Author Topic: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?  (Read 3870 times)

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Endarire

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First
-Empower Spell
-Maximize Spell
-summon monster I

What Metamagic Would Change
Assuming Empower Spell, a summonling's damage and HP (both variable numeric effects) would increase by 50%.  This may even extend to its spells, SLAs, supernatural abilities, poisons, diseases, and other attacks.

Argument
Most summonling spells have an effect of "One summoned creature."  Part of this effect is a creature with variable HP per HD (you can roll for HP) and with attacks that deal variable damage (d4+6, for example).  In theory, you can Empower and Maximize these.
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Solo

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 04:18:57 AM »
That feat you are using... I do not think it works the way you think it works.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 10:25:18 AM by Solo »

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Nytemare3701

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 04:25:18 AM »
What about a shadowcraft mage's spells being % effective? isn't that a similar case? A summoned creature would only have %hp right?

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2010, 05:03:54 AM »
and if you have a 200% real, invisible, maximized, empowered Celestial Badger?  ???
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 05:07:50 AM »
The Empower/Maximize affects the spell. Not the dice creatures roll.
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[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
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[/spoiler]

Shadowhunter

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 05:17:59 AM »
The only effect I would judge it to have would be a 50% increase in starting HP.
But that's just me.
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Nytemare3701

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2010, 09:46:46 AM »
"All variable effects of the spell" seems pretty clear.

The damage roll is:
A: An effect of the spell (unless the creature itself is the only "effect" of the spell, and any further iterations are disregarded)
B: Variable

skydragonknight

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 10:15:59 AM »
Pretty sure there's an FAQ entry on this, or something similar. The short answer would be "no: numbers that aren't in the spell description aren't affected."

You CAN use a rod of empower/maximize to get more of lesser summons. Maximized Summon Monster III could give 1d3=3 summon monster II monsters or 1d4+1=5 summon monster I monsters.
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veekie

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2010, 10:23:15 AM »
On the spell itself, its effect is the creature and the variable number of creatures is the only roll for the spell.
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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2010, 01:56:46 PM »
Raw, yes. If Invisible spell works on it, there's no reason maximise wouldn't work. Whether the effects of something is summoning something that have an effect, or actually creating a damage effect. It is still by all means of the words an Effect of the spell.

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2010, 01:59:40 PM »
The only effect I would judge it to have would be a 50% increase in starting HP.
But that's just me.

Ability Scores could be affected.


RAW: Summon Monster 1 has no variable component other than what creature you choose to summon. The higher level versions would only result in more summoned creatures (1d3 maximized).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2010, 03:28:45 PM »
in particular, with shadow craft mage i think you could get the 200% real version, but only because its an illusion and not the real deal.

otherwise i think it dosnt work.

just my 2c
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Can I Empower or Maximize a summon spell to boost a summonling's stats?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2010, 03:38:32 PM »
The only effect I would judge it to have would be a 50% increase in starting HP.
But that's just me.

Ability Scores could be affected.


RAW: Summon Monster 1 has no variable component other than what creature you choose to summon. The higher level versions would only result in more summoned creatures (1d3 maximized).
Monster ability scores are rarely (if ever) rolled. They use the Elite array and are set in stone outside of DM changes. There is no connection of PC ability score generation's method of rolling and empower spell. The closest it gets is an Awaken spell, which does contain the roll 3d6 comments within the spell and like wise it is the spell granting those mental scores.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]