Author Topic: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison  (Read 4584 times)

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Malgrim

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Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« on: December 10, 2010, 09:01:25 PM »
I will be starting a new game soon and intend to play a melee for a change, as far as I understand there's no book restrictions in this campaign so I thought about giving the paizo's barbarian a try.
Just by glancing at it I think I like the class mechanics concept yet I don't feel qualified to judge it's efficiency since it's my first meleer, so without much ado..

What's the general opinion about how the pathfinder's barbarian stands in comparison to the warblade, is it slightly weaker, a lot weaker? can be made on par?
you don't need to post builds though they would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 09:11:36 PM »
PF Barbarian actually compares relatively well for the first few levels, but it's advancement is still linear.  Starting off with a few levels of Barbarian (2 or 4 depending on how many Rage Powers you like) and then multiclassing Warblade would be the best option.

Malgrim

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 09:28:23 PM »
PF Barbarian actually compares relatively well for the first few levels, but it's advancement is still linear.  Starting off with a few levels of Barbarian (2 or 4 depending on how many Rage Powers you like) and then multiclassing Warblade would be the best option.

Won't my rage points pool be too gimped if I get so few barb levels? also won't raging interfere with maneuver usage? i mean i could use the 'moment of clarity' rage power but that alone costs 4 rage points and with a pool so small... or am I over-thinking?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 09:56:57 PM by Malgrim »

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 03:50:15 AM »
Barbarian dip normally only gives 1 rage per day, anyway, so you're getting more rage regardless.

Also, your rage pool is not that small at all.  With 2 levels of Barbarian it will be 6+Con rounds, which should last 3-4 encounters.  With 4 levels it will be 8+Con rounds, which should last 4-5.  Oh, and don't get Moment of Clarity.  Quite possibly the worst Rage Power ever.

Malgrim

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 11:30:07 AM »
Oh, and don't get Moment of Clarity.  Quite possibly the worst Rage Power ever.

So should I assume it is possible to use maneuvers while raging then?

Bauglir

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 01:59:19 PM »
It might depend on the discipline and your DM; for fluff reasons, Diamond Mind is probably no good, for instance (and you certainly can't use the maneuvers that require Concentration checks, unless my memory is off and somehow you can use the Concentration skill while raging), while Tiger Claw is pretty much perfect thematically for most barbarians. Possibly a good rule of thumb would be that if the discipline's key skill can't be used while raging, then you can't use that discipline.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Havok4

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 02:18:51 PM »
It might depend on the discipline and your DM; for fluff reasons, Diamond Mind is probably no good, for instance (and you certainly can't use the maneuvers that require Concentration checks, unless my memory is off and somehow you can use the Concentration skill while raging), while Tiger Claw is pretty much perfect thematically for most barbarians. Possibly a good rule of thumb would be that if the discipline's key skill can't be used while raging, then you can't use that discipline.

This is a houserule however, you can use any maneuver that does not require a forbidden skill check.,

bihlbo

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 02:26:27 PM »
Oh, and don't get Moment of Clarity.  Quite possibly the worst Rage Power ever.

So should I assume it is possible to use maneuvers while raging then?

Actually, I would assume that since the game has no restrictions, you probably aren't using Pathfinder's combat maneuvers at all. You might want to ask your DM for a clarification on that before you go fudging with a non-existant Combat Maneuver Bonus or something.
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Malgrim

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 02:47:46 PM »
It might depend on the discipline and your DM; for fluff reasons, Diamond Mind is probably no good, for instance (and you certainly can't use the maneuvers that require Concentration checks, unless my memory is off and somehow you can use the Concentration skill while raging), while Tiger Claw is pretty much perfect thematically for most barbarians. Possibly a good rule of thumb would be that if the discipline's key skill can't be used while raging, then you can't use that discipline.

This is a houserule however, you can use any maneuver that does not require a forbidden skill check.,

So, since concentration is based on constitution even diamond blade would be fine to use, I better ask the DM first though.

Actually, I would assume that since the game has no restrictions, you probably aren't using Pathfinder's combat maneuvers at all. You might want to ask your DM for a clarification on that before you go fudging with a non-existant Combat Maneuver Bonus or something.

When I mentioned maneuvers I was thinking ToB maneuvers not general combat ones (trip, bull rush yadah yadah).. though you're right I should have asked the DM how the different systems are going to interact, if they do at all.

But on my original question, if ToB maneuvers are ruled to not work with rage, is it viable to go full barbarian progression? how weaker will my char be in comparison to a full warblade or barb/warblade (using moment of clarity for maneuvers)?

Bauglir

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 02:58:52 PM »
It might depend on the discipline and your DM; for fluff reasons, Diamond Mind is probably no good, for instance (and you certainly can't use the maneuvers that require Concentration checks, unless my memory is off and somehow you can use the Concentration skill while raging), while Tiger Claw is pretty much perfect thematically for most barbarians. Possibly a good rule of thumb would be that if the discipline's key skill can't be used while raging, then you can't use that discipline.

This is a houserule however, you can use any maneuver that does not require a forbidden skill check.,

So, since concentration is based on constitution even diamond blade would be fine to use, I better ask the DM first though.
Huh, I guess you're right. Your DM may believe that the Concentration skill requires concentration (these are, RAW, completely unrelated however, so strictly speaking it would merely be a houserule if he did bar you from using Diamond Mind). But yeah, everything up there is a thematic thing that could very easily be ignored since you can just as easily refluff the disciplines anyway. By the rules, nothing stops you from using maneuvers while raging, I think.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 03:56:49 PM »
A full PF barb essentially stops gaining class features at about 5th level.  While you can play a Hood or a Chain Tripper with a pure PF Barbarian and be a decent character, a well-built Warblade can do either of those and have some other tricks to pull as well.

Malgrim

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 06:22:46 PM »
A full PF barb essentially stops gaining class features at about 5th level.  While you can play a Hood or a Chain Tripper with a pure PF Barbarian and be a decent character, a well-built Warblade can do either of those and have some other tricks to pull as well.

I see, warblade it is then, thanks again, to everyone.

Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder's Barbarian and Warblade comparison
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2010, 06:45:46 PM »
Good luck with the warblade :)