Author Topic: I want to make an unarmed character who doesn't rely on Wild Shape or Polymorph.  (Read 3756 times)

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Endarire

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Rules
32 point buy.  We start at ECL1.  No favored classes or multiclass penalties.  Party mates uncertain.  All 3.5 material available pending DM approval.

Wild Shape, alter self, polymorph, metamorphosis, and such are potent, but using them isn't the primary goal of this character.  I am willing to use them if it would be uber, but I'd prefer not.

Forewarnings
I'm well aware of Hood and Fistbeard Beardfist.  What other options are there?

Considerations
-I want to use Unarmed Swordsage as a base.  I like martial maneuvers, and Setting Sun maneuvers seem spiffy and thematic.  I've not seen them used enough.
-I'd like WhirlPounce Barbarian1.
-I'd prefer to avoid the Monk and Chaos Monk classes.  I like the notion of being an uber "monk"-like character without Monk written on my character sheet.
-Up the Walls seems too cool and thematic to ignore.
-I've heard spiffy things about Kalashtar and Implanted Quori Shards (Eberron Campaign Setting 264), especially the shard Ectoplasmic Fist.  Each shard treats me as +1 size category larger for damage, but do they stack?

Questions
1: Besides size increases, how can I get a greater reach with my unarmed strikes?
2: How can I use my unarmed strikes as a ranged weapon?  (That puts a new spin on the term, 'throwing a punch.')
3: How effective is dual wielding in this build, assuming I can use Two-Weapon Fighting with unarmed strikes?
4: How do gauntlets interact with unarmed strikes and natural attacks?
5: Assuming I'm not just smacking people with my uberized unarmed strikes, what viable combat options have I?
6: What are my best noncombat options?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

bearsarebrown

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1. There are plenty of ways. Abberant Reach, Warshaper, Willing Deformity (Tall) off the top of my head.
2. Ring the Golden Bell from Dragon Compendium and Bloodwind from Spell Compendium.
3. Eh. Maybe. Depends on the route you take. Snap Kick is good though.
4. Nobody knows for sure.
5. If you go Monk 1/Psychic Warrior 19 then anything doable with 6th level powers.
6. See #5.

Up The Walls seems cool but sucks. It's only a Move Action and getting a Climb or Fly speed isn't that hard. Only worth grabbing if you can retrain out of it later.

Have you considered Totemist? Instead of big Unarmed Strikes you could have 6 Claws and 4 Tentacles. Or both.

Prime32

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I'm pretty sure those shards don't stack, and if you're a kalashtar you're better off going Tashalatora anyway (which may not actually require monk levels).

What about a warforged with a battlefist? It can be treated as an unarmed strike of +1 size, plus it can be enchanted as a throwing weapon. Plus IIRC you still get the unarmed AC bonus despite technically having armour.
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Endarire

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Being a Dragonborn Warforged removes the composite plating.

My main race considerations are Kalashtar (shard yumminess) and Warforged (throwable body parts).
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Ithamar

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Swordsage 2 / Ranger 2 / Barbarian 4 / Bloodclaw Master 3 / Warshaper 3*

No TWF'ing penalties, full STR to each attack, full attack on a Charge OR Standard Action by expending a Tiger Claw strike.  Combine with Shadow Blade for more damage.

*Hopefully you can qualify for Warshaper since now you can shift, just like a Shifter can.  If not, be an actual Shifter.

Or, be an Elf and mix in Wildrunner for more STR & DEX and a few other decent goodies.
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Prime32

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My main race considerations are Kalashtar (shard yumminess) and Warforged (throwable body parts).
What was that feat, Shocking Fist? Add Shining Finger to your Rocket Punch. :p
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Eviltedzies

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Can't believe this wasn't mentioned: Greater Mighty Wallop  :smirk
Increases your damage by 1 size category/4 caster levels. Also lasts 1 hour/level.
The size increases cap out at collosal, but then your other size increases can take effect.

As far as reach is concerned, Dancing Blade Form (5th lvl Iron Heart Stance) adds +5ft of reach to any of your melee attacks on your turn. And if I'm reading the wording right it should stack with other reach enhancements except those gained from other maneuvers.
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Vistella

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4: How do gauntlets interact with unarmed strikes and natural attacks?
FaQ says they are weapons but not monk weapons, so no flurry with them. kinda like a battleaxe

Surreal

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Savage Species Troll with the Detach feat so he can club people with his own arm?

/literalist

Also, who remembers that debate on 339 about ripping the arms (or whatever suitable body part) off a level 20 monk to use as weapons for silly base damage?
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AndyJames

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Warforged
Unarmed Swordsage 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Shiba Protector 1/Spellcarved Soldier 4/Artificer 5/anything with full BAB 4 (I like Anointed Knight myself as it gives bonus feats, amongst them Alertness which is one of your prerequisite feats)

Feats to get (other than prerequisites):
Superior Unarmed Strike
Improved TWF
Greater TWF
the two artificer feats to lower XP and gold costs by 25%
Shadow Blade (or something like that)

Items to get:
Battlefist (increase your unarmed strikes by 1 size, your slam to 1d8; note that the battlefist doesn't actually say you have to USE it to gain your unarmed strike increase, only your slam, not that it matters, since you aren't a monk and flurry doesn't apply to you)

Take the fighter 2 sub (and 1 as well, if you want) and the artificer 4 sub (this is key).

Now, your Wisdom adds to your AC, attack and damage. Your Strength adds to attack and damage. Your Dex adds to AC and unarmed strike damage (but not slam damage).

Your base damage with your unarmed strike is 3d6 and you get 7 of them a round. Your slam does 1d8 and you can use it as a secondary natural weapon, giving you 8 attacks a round.

(EDIT: Oh, and you can wear robes and up to 3 rings, and you are immune to sneak attacks and critical hits)

You have unlimited craft reserve and gold to make anything you want.

Go. To. Town.



NOTE: This does not play with Improved Natural Attack, nor Greater Mighty Wallop. This is just the base guy with no equipment other than his battlefist.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 05:22:48 AM by AndyJames »

Waazraath

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Unarmed swordsage 5, initiate of the draconic mysteries 10, X5; feats: superiour unarmed strike, snap kick, flying kick.

Unarmed strikes will do 1d20 damage, charge attack with flying kick +1d00 damage (1d12 with 2 times increased die).... dunno if the extra damage from flying kick will count also on a snap kick made on a charge (if yes, get pounce :))

At level 15, you can always shapechange in a huge 30HD dragon if above isn't enough.

JohnnyMayHymn

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soul eater1 lets you bestow a negative level or 2 with a touch
so the name of the game here is extra attacks = more negative levels, snap kick, natural weapons, monks belt(debatable for non-monks) etc...
9 levels and your victims raise as wights: no HD limit on this :evillaugh
(steep prerequisites though: non-humanoid(monstrous humanoid ok; so pretty much warforged), a natural weapon, some BAB, 2 feats, evil)

dread necromancer1 gives you charnel touch(debatable whether this stacks w/ unarmed attacks, last I looked)

thrallherd1: lots of minions that you can have attack with their fists too/ or fill other roles
(EDIT: IIRC kalashtar can get this easily)

cleric1 can get you two domain powers, and/or 2 feats (hunger gets you a bite attack for example)
(EDIT:war domain grants weapon focus for your deities favored weapon, and some draconomicon deities have bite as a favored weapon(meets a soul eater prereq))

EDIT EDIT: holy crap!, idk if this works or not.. but only requires 4 levels
Kalashtar: Divine Minion1(type changes to outsider WS is just gravy), cleric1(hunger for bite attack, war for weapon focus: bite), sword sage or whatever you wantX, at some point take thrallherd1, sould eater1, whateverX
(flavor wise contradictory and deity choices get a little hairy, but if you're allowed to re-flavor.... could be interesting)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 07:57:34 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Maat_Mons

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non-humanoid(monstrous humanoid ok; so pretty much warforged)

Not daelkyr halfbood (Magic of Eberron 37), elan (Expanded Psionics Handbook 9), synad (Complete Psionic 139), duskling (Magic of Incarnum 10), faun (Deities and Demigods 133), jermlain (Monster Manual II 131), killoren (Races of the Wild 102), anthropomorphic [bat, lizard, monkey, rat, raven, toad, weasel] (Savage Species 214), lupin (Dragon Compendium 18), muckdweller (Serpent Kingdoms 71), tibbit (Dragon Compendium 21), neraph (Planar Handbook 12), or hairy spider (Monsters of Faerun 79, see 3.5 update booklet)? 

JohnnyMayHymn

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i stand corrected :)
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Can you find the Wumpus? (Hint: start with the spoiler....)
[spoiler] :beathorse [/spoiler]
...........  :joystick

Mixster

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Unarmed Swordsage/Crusader into Ur-Priest Into RKV?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Endarire

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How do all these damage enhancers affect natural attacks, such as for polymorph, metamorphosis, or Wild Shape?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"