Something Weird I Noticed...

[Amechra]

Ruby Knight Vindicator doesn't require spellcasting to enter at all.

Just those Turning Attempts...

Guess what? A 4th level vestige (Tenebrous) grants you turning 1/5 rounds when you bind him. A homebrew Vestige also grants turning attempts; if you are allowed the Green Lady, more power to yeah.

So we could, let's say, do something like:

Archivist 1/Binder 1/Archivist 2/Divine Anima Mage 8/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7...

Any way to further abuse this?

[Garryl]

You do realize that your proposed build gets spellcasting anyways, and thus would qualify even if RKV needed spells to enter, right?


Anyways, the question becomes what can you do with the swift actions that RKV turns your turn attempts into. ToB is pretty good about that already with its boosts and counters. What other classes and abilities are swift action-based that use the 1/round limit as a balancing factor? Also remember that with Tenebrus (and possibly the Green Lady), your turning is limited to 1/5 rounds. You can get that down to 1/3 rounds with PrCs and feats, but that's still not overwhelming compared to just dipping cleric and snagging the undeath domain.

[Amechra]

I know it gets spellcasting, but I'm noting that you could technically enter the class with a binding class, and Archivist is better than Cleric, anyway.

And an alternate build idea would be:

Cleric 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7

Sure, you would need shenanigans to get into Anima Mage, but you would gain Vestige Casting and Divine Impetus. Now, can anyone tell me how good a Turn attempts->Swift Actions and "cast any spell as an Instantaneous action" is as a combo?

Also, a question: can you Vestige Focus, Expel Vestige, Rapid Pactmaking, or Improved Binding if you have the Bind Vestige feat? Because none of those feats, afaik, ask for the soul binding class feature

[altpersona]

isnt the down side of having spell progression and nothing to progress, having no spell casting?

[Amechra]

I'm not saying that it's optimal, I'm just saying that you can.

Big difference.

[Surreal]

It would be interesting if the casting advancement wasn't strictly limited to divine. That could allow for some interesting combinations. But hey, as long as we're in the land of make believe, enter with an Ardent with the magic mantle with screwy magic/psionic transparency and up the level of stupid with extra swift action linked synchronicity blah blah.

[X-Codes]

Standard turning attempts are still better.  Using Tenebrous to get turning and enter RKV won't let you nova as well as a Cleric RKV can.

[Mixster]

I prefer entering with Ur-Priest. At level 17 you get full Ur-Priest casting and all the RKV goodyness.

[SolEiji]

Hmm, doesn't Dread Necro give turning too as an arcane class?  While it wouldn't advance DN, it does come with a few benefits (such as if you Tomb Tainted).  You could go Dread Necro 1/Divine Casting 1/Crusader X/RKV 10 or the like.