Author Topic: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?  (Read 14610 times)

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carnivore

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 01:34:15 AM »
heres an idea..... cast this spell on coins.....since it does not affect the caster, you can just put them into a Bag of Holding(Handy Haversack, Belt of Many Pockets,etc.. any extradimensional space holding item).... to use them, just grab a handfull and throw them at someone, or scatter them on the floor and instantly boobytrap an entire room or hallway

Two problems: The glyphs are a foot across, and disappear if they move more than five feet from their starting location.
the glyphs never move from thier starting location.... since they are cast on a Coin(Starting location).... the Coin is the one that moves

 :D

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 01:40:04 AM »
heres an idea..... cast this spell on coins.....since it does not affect the caster, you can just put them into a Bag of Holding(Handy Haversack, Belt of Many Pockets,etc.. any extradimensional space holding item).... to use them, just grab a handfull and throw them at someone, or scatter them on the floor and instantly boobytrap an entire room or hallway

Two problems: The glyphs are a foot across, and disappear if they move more than five feet from their starting location.
the glyphs never move from thier starting location.... since they are cast on a Coin(Starting location).... the Coin is the one that moves

 :D
1) Where are you going to get a foot across coin
2) No, that's not what "starting location" means.
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carnivore

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 01:47:45 AM »
opps, you are correct ... i didnt have access to the complete spell description at the time .... i just found it... so here it is:

GHOUL GLYPH
Necromancy
Level: Hunger 2, sorcerer/
wizard 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Object touched
Duration: Permanent until
discharged
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
The faint, green glow of the glyph flares to life. A sickly green light fills the room, illuminating the paralyzed forms of its victims, and bringing with it the stench of death.
You inscribe a glyph, approximately 1 foot across, that paralyzes any living creature of Large or smaller size that comes within 5 feet of the glyph.
You can scribe the glyph to be visible as faintly glowing lines, or invisible. You can inscribe a ghoul glyph on a portable object, but if the object is moved more than 5 feet, the glyph fades

Bozwevial

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 01:47:56 AM »
1) Where are you going to get a foot across coin
Finally a use for the Ningi.

the_shadowmind

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 01:51:46 AM »
Spell Like Abilities use the spells cast time. Explicitly ruled in Rules Compendium.

Scult Spell is a fucking awesome idea for the spell.
The discussion http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6498.0 and here http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6674.40 seems to suggest otherwise.

tl,dr; SLAs are a standard action, unless the specific ability description say the have another casting time, or if the casting time of the spell they emulate is less than a standard action.

Akalsaris

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2010, 03:37:20 AM »
Some DMs might allow casting it from inside a portable hole and then throwing it out of the hole when necessary.  Still not a great combat action though.  It's probably a move action to get the hole from your belt, then another move action to spread out the hole, then another move action to pull out the glyph, and once you move the portable hole 5ft away from the area the glyph would disappear. 

Still cool if you want to trap areas within the dungeon as you move deeper, or to cast before you camp, or to set up an ambush.  I'd take it over the grave mist.

JaronK

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2010, 03:43:53 AM »
Spell like Ghoul Glyph does indeed take a standard action (both Monster Manual and Rules Compendium agree on this, and trump the SRD).  That makes it AWESOME when used with Spell Stitching or Factotums.  For characters like that, it's a no save "sorry you're just screwed" move on anything living.

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2010, 03:52:49 AM »
1. Cast Ghoul Glyph on the floor.
2. Place Ring Gate A, enter side down, on it.
3. ???
4. Profit!
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2010, 04:26:10 AM »
1. Cast Ghoul Glyph on the floor.
2. Place Ring Gate A, enter side down, on it.
3. You are now within 5' of the glyph
4: Fall over paralyzed
5: 100 pounds of your body falls through the ring gate
6: The rest does not
7:???
8: Telekinesis.
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Benly

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2010, 06:44:57 AM »
Still cool if you want to trap areas within the dungeon as you move deeper, or to cast before you camp, or to set up an ambush.  I'd take it over the grave mist.

Yeah, Kelgore's Grave Mist is not really a bad spell for what it is, but it's not enough of an expansion of the dread necromancer's capabilities to want to blow an advanced learning on it. In the end, it's just another in-combat offense option and it's not enough better than the ones you already have to be worth it. Ghoul Glyph, on the other hand, opens up a genuinely new option for you and gives you something to do in situations you didn't have a tool for before. It's one of my top picks for a first advanced learning.

(There is a case in which I would consider KGM for my first advanced learning, which is a Fell Animate-focused build. Using FA Grave Mist with fallen enemies on the field will almost certainly finish them off and zombify them for you, along with any other unconscious bleeders you toss into the cloud after the fight is over, making it a rather efficient mass-animation tool. This is, however, a niche application.)

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2010, 11:57:10 AM »
1. Cast Ghoul Glyph on the floor.
2. Place Ring Gate A, enter side down, on it.
3. ???
4. Profit!
This sounds like a fantastic combo, if you can find a DM who'd let it fly. IMO, the spell is a bit overpowered, anyway. A semi-permanent no-save, just die at 2nd level? The fact that it is immobile doesn't really unbreak it.
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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2010, 06:08:12 PM »
So technically you are "moving" the Coin+Glyph
into the Bag Of Holding, but then it's in extra dimensional space.
And we know from our D&D space time continuum classes that ...
So then, you could "move" it the rest of the 5' away from the Bag.
Don't have long arms.
Don't open the Bag far from the floor.
Oh, and who says the Coins aren't 1 Foot in diameter.
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Surreal

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2010, 06:25:33 PM »
So inscribe the glyph on your armor/shields/buttocks while carrying an acorn of far travel so you're always considered under the tree's canopy, and thus ~5' from your starting point... or something like that.  :ninja
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Caelic

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2010, 06:27:06 PM »
Finally a use for the Ningi.

Moving the Ningi, of course, is a challenge unto itself...

JaronK

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2010, 07:56:16 PM »
Yeah, Kelgore's Grave Mist is not really a bad spell for what it is, but it's not enough of an expansion of the dread necromancer's capabilities to want to blow an advanced learning on it. In the end, it's just another in-combat offense option and it's not enough better than the ones you already have to be worth it.

It does, however, have a lot more range than any other spell you get around this level (or ever, actually), and since Skeletons are immune to cold and fatigue it's a nice spell to just drop into the middle of any swirling melee between your troopers and the enemy.  Don't forget fatigue also spoils charging, so it's hilarious to use against certain kinds of enemies (and IIRC there's no save against the fatigue effect).

But yes, I think Ghoul Glyph is better.  If you don't want to be as creative though, Kelgor's Grave Mist is well worth it (and frankly I haven't found ANY other 2nd or below level necromancy spells worth it besides those two.  The rest all do something totally useless or do exactly what your other spells already do).

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skydragonknight

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2010, 08:44:36 PM »
So inscribe the glyph on your armor/shields/buttocks while carrying an acorn of far travel so you're always considered under the tree's canopy, and thus ~5' from your starting point... or something like that.  :ninja
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Benly

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2010, 09:08:19 PM »
But yes, I think Ghoul Glyph is better.  If you don't want to be as creative though, Kelgor's Grave Mist is well worth it (and frankly I haven't found ANY other 2nd or below level necromancy spells worth it besides those two.  The rest all do something totally useless or do exactly what your other spells already do).

Yeah, that's basically the big problem. There's those two, there's Lesser Shivering Touch, and I think there's something I'm forgetting that's incredibly obvious and will come back to me later. And Lesser Shivering Touch is less interesting given that there's Actual Shivering Touch coming online a few levels later.

I'm not meaning to sound like I think Kelgore's Grave Mist is a bad spell, because like I said, it's a good spell for what it is. It's just that what it brings for your advanced learning is improved quality for you've already got tools for, and what Ghoul Glyph brings is an entirely new tool for new situations.

(Also, regarding the no-save on KGM, there is no save for either the fatigue or the damage, but there is SR for the fatigue and not the damage. Weird but whatever.)

Regarding the Bag of Holding: I hope you've got enough stuff in your huge extradimensional pocket to fill it up to within two and a half feet of the top and avoid internal jostling, or putting the glyph in and taking it back out will break its 5' restriction - unless, of course, your DM reads it as "moving it 5' away from its starting point" in which case as soon as it's in the extradimensional pocket and therefore not within 5' of its starting point the glyph breaks. Also, it's less a coin and more a frisbee, but that's just details. :)

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2010, 09:34:52 PM »
Wall of shadows from kalamar is a decent 2nd level necromancy choice as well.  

You get a wall with an area of up to one 5' square/level (1 foot thick), which lasts a minute per level, blocks LoS, and gives 1d6 points of no-save "temporary strength loss" (which I assume is strength damage) to anyone passing through it.

It's not crazy-good, but it's still decent battlefield control.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 09:38:14 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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JaronK

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2010, 10:04:29 PM »
I should mention I actually do have a Portable Hole that I keep full of water with Ghoul Glyphs in it.  The space inside the hole doesn't move at all, after all, so I can use a Glove of Storing to instantly pop the hole out under people.  Hilarity ensues.

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Re: Ghoul Glyph: underrated?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2010, 11:30:24 AM »
I should mention I actually do have a Portable Hole that I keep full of water with Ghoul Glyphs in it.  The space inside the hole doesn't move at all, after all, so I can use a Glove of Storing to instantly pop the hole out under people.  Hilarity ensues.

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