Author Topic: Optimize a fire sorcerer!  (Read 13410 times)

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bkdubs123

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Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« on: November 20, 2010, 12:32:52 AM »
I'm away from books and I need help making an effective burninator for a friend. Really the only requirements for the character are Goblin race and magic that deals fire damage, but I assume sorcerer is the best way to start. The character will be starting at 8th level and beyond that everything is fair game. Give me some of the craziest fire tech you guys can, please! Since this is going to be played at an average game table TO is out, but heavy optimization is desirable.

CantripN

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 12:47:44 AM »
Sorcerer 6 / War Mage 2 (Sorcerer 6 / War Mage 5 / Sanctified One of Kord 1 / Elemental Savant 1 / Academy Sorcerer 7)

ACFs:
Stalwart Sorcerer (lose one spell known from your highest spell level) - Gain a martial weapon proficiency, and weapon focus in that weapon, and 2 hitpoints/level.
Force Charged Energy (lose 2nd level spell known) - half damage of spells is force damage.

Feats:
Metamagic Storm - Energy Substitution (Fire)
1B - Weapon Focus (Longsword)
1st - Combat Casting
3rd - Snowcasting
6th - Eschew Materials
8B - Empower Spell
9th - Frozen Magic
10B - Maximize Spell
12th - Cold Spell Specialization
15th - Dragon Prophesier
18th - Prophecy's Shaper

All your spells get +5 Damage per die (without resorting to spells to boost it further), and each round you get a free Empower. Also, major boosts to DC and CL for all spells, not to mention all your damage is Holy and Unresistable.

If possible, be a Draconic Goblin, take the 4th level Sorcerer Sub. Level from Races of the Dragon, and get Practical Metamagic (Empower) @ 15th, and Residual Magic @ 18th. Only do this if LA-buyoff is allowed. If not, don't.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 01:11:07 AM by CantripN »
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bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2010, 01:10:31 AM »
All your spells get +5 Damage per die (without resorting to spells to boost it further), and each round you get a free Empower. Also, major boosts to DC and CL for all spells, not to mention all your damage is Holy and Unresistable.

The player will definitely be excited to hear this; however, I'm unfamiliar with damn near all of that material. Is War Mage in the Miniatures Handbook? What is the effectiveness of the build at 8th level? Would you mind giving an example of typical tactics?

Also, I know the player doesn't want to be a fighting type mage at all. The character is pretty cowardly and weak by concept. He'll love the Snowcasting stuff though, I'll be sure to remind him of that.

CantripN

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2010, 01:15:17 AM »
War Mage is a PrC out of Age of Mortals (Dragonlance).

At level 8, he can cast 4th level spells, and he'd just get a +1 to damage per die. Not bad, but nothing game-breaking, yet. He'd have his CHA to AC, though, so he'd be a lot more durable.

I need to sleep badly, but I'll be sure to drop by tomorrow and point out more about items, sources, spells to pick, etc...
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Midnight_v

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2010, 01:48:29 AM »
Well...
Would it be okay to be a Pison instead? Psionic Blasters seem to have some inherent in good-ness...

Also, pretty much perfect is the fire mage from the Tome series, I imagine you've looked at it at least once.

Aside from that yeah, cantripn seems to work pretty well.

I susepect you could implement fear into a sorcery build pretty easily also by taking fell frighten and dreadful wrath. Terrifying fireballs, really.
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bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2010, 01:50:44 AM »
Well...
Would it be okay to be a Pison instead? Psionic Blasters seem to have some inherent in good-ness...

Also, pretty much perfect is the fire mage from the Tome series, I imagine you've looked at it at least once.

Aside from that yeah, cantripn seems to work pretty well.

I susepect you could implement fear into a sorcery build pretty easily also by taking fell frighten and dreadful wrath. Terrifying fireballs, really.

Yeah, I was considering asking him if he'd like to play with psionics instead of normal casting. He really loves arcane casting though, so we'll see.

Terrifying, snowcasted, War Mage of Krynn fireballs might be exactly what he's looking for if we can fit it all into 8 levels. :)

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2010, 01:54:56 AM »
Just take Searing Spell. It lets all your Fire spells ignore resistance and even things with immune take half damage.

bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 03:06:49 AM »
He'll almost definitely be taking Searing Spell, but since he'll be partying with at least Tier 3 characters, I need a way to make his primary focus, fire damage spells, actually worth the actions. I also assume he'll be taking a few, fun utility spells to use on the off chance that somehow fire isn't the answer.

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 04:08:21 AM »
Ultimate Magus between Wizard and Warmage.  Residual Magic feat at 9th.

This build only gets obnoxious at 9th level, TBH, and even then only kinda.

Feats: Residual Magic, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, some method enabling practical of Quicken Spell with a spontaneous casting class.  Energy Substitution and Searing Spell are both useful as well.

CL 11 is obtainable with an Ioun Stone.  Don't pass it up, it boosts your Scorching Rays GREATLY.

Round 1, standard action: cast Seeking Ray.  Make it a Energy Subbed [Fire] Seeking Ray if you like. [4d6]
Round 1, swift action: activate Ultimate Magus ability to burn a 4th-level spell to cast a Quickened Scorching Ray at the same target. [12d6]
Round 2, standard action: activate Ultimate Magus ability to burn a 2nd-level spell to cast an Empowered Scorching Ray [18d6]
Round 2, swift action: activate Residual Magic to cast a Quickened Scorching Ray [12d6]
Round 3, standard action: activate Residual Magic to cast an Empowered Scorching Ray [18d6]
Round 3, swift action: activate Residual Magic to cast a Quickened Scorching Ray [12d6]

3 rounds, 76d6 fire damage, Seeking Ray practically guarantees that none of these attacks miss.

You will also likely apply your Warmage Edge 6 times over these 3 rounds, so total damage can near 300.  When you get more 4th-level spells, you'll probably want to use Twin Spell instead of Empower Spell.

At some point, go take the War Mage mentioned above and your damage will quickly out-pace the BSFs against anything not immune to fire.

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 12:34:46 PM »
Nitpick: Residual metamagic won't apply on the last Quickened Scorching Ray.  You used it the turn before.
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CantripN

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2010, 01:03:01 PM »
Yeah, the UM build can pack quite a punch. However, it'll run out of spells at an alarming rate (I'd played one, so I know), and each individual spells is far weaker than mine. Efficiency is also a concern.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2010, 01:21:15 PM »
Fire Mage?

Not very versatile, but gets the fire thing done very well. Definitely not OP.
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bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2010, 06:04:05 PM »
I've read something about using a Snowcasting trick in combination with War Mage of Krynn to add extra damage to spells. What is this trick and how does it work? Because, for backstory reasons, the player really wants to go the Snowcasting route especially if we can optimize it properly.

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2010, 06:44:43 PM »
Fire Mage?

Not very versatile, but gets the fire thing done very well. Definitely not OP.
This is what I was talking about in my original post. Btw.

Well... if thats what he wants "snowcasting" ftw then, I guess... I take it you don't have the Krynn book? Thats why I never used the white dragonspawn either or any of that stuff from krynn its just like "who the F*$ has these books? Ah well gl.
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bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2010, 07:39:01 PM »
I have the book (now I do :smirk), but I don't see how Snowcasting helps to add more damage to a spell... I saw something Kell Kheraptis said that implied you could squeeze another +2/damage die by combining Snowcasting with War Mage. Is that correct? How does that work?

But yeah, he loves the snowcasting + fire spells idea (it makes sense with his backstory). We just need to figure out the easiest, most effective way to use it. Is there any reliable way to use Frozen Magic to help boost his casting (y'know outside of an arctic environment)?

CantripN

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2010, 07:44:37 PM »
Read Cold Spell Specialization. It would give you +2 damage/die. Seeing as you don't actually need Snow with Eschew Materials (although you still need the Move Action RAW), and you can get the right amount of ambient cold around with Control Temperature (Sor/Wiz 3)...
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bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2010, 08:10:27 PM »
Read Cold Spell Specialization. It would give you +2 damage/die. Seeing as you don't actually need Snow with Eschew Materials (although you still need the Move Action RAW), and you can get the right amount of ambient cold around with Control Temperature (Sor/Wiz 3)...

Ahh... okay, okay. So let's see here...

Necessary feats: Snowcasting, Frozen Magic, Cold Spell Specialization, Combat Casting, and Weapon Focus. Yeesh. So, flaws are necessary so we can pick up Frozen Magic, and Cold Spell Specialization.

As far as Control Temperature, I figure we can look into a custom magic item that grants it as a constant effect that can be turned on or off with a command word. Shouldn't be very expensive. We still have a bonus metamagic feat at War Mage of Krynn 2. Not sure what to grab here. Empower I suppose, though he probably won't be using it at all (unless he can afford metamagic rods) until he can pick up Practical Metamagic and Arcane Thesis.

Anything else I'm missing here?

CantripN

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2010, 08:15:59 PM »
A bit, yeah. You also need Eschew Materials for War Mage, you can't ever get Practical Metamagic as it requires the Dragonblood subtype, and Arcane Thesis, while nice, isn't really necessary.

Luckily, Weapon Focus is a Bonus Feat with Stalwart Sorcerer.

The build I'd outlined above is the most efficient way of getting all you need ASAP, unless you have Flaws.

Here's something like it that I'd once played: Fenrir
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 08:19:28 PM by CantripN »
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bkdubs123

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2010, 08:28:39 PM »
Luckily, Weapon Focus is a Bonus Feat with Stalwart Sorcerer.

Ugh, I see. Well, I'll let him know. I don't know if he'll like Stalwart Sorcerer. :-/

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Here's something like it that I'd once played: Fenrir

Thanks, I'll look it over.

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Re: Optimize a fire sorcerer!
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2010, 09:35:38 PM »
I kinda like Goblin Focused Wizard: Evoker.  Drop the schools: Illusion, Enchantment, Necromancy (non involve burning things).  Take Energy sub: Fire.  Take Searing Spell.  And get some CL boosts.  Spell Focus (Fire).  The biggest problem with the wizard is survivability as a goblin, but you are level 8, and you still have the protection from Conjuration.
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