Author Topic: Generic Character Tiers  (Read 1537 times)

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OblivionSmurf83

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Generic Character Tiers
« on: November 15, 2010, 03:33:49 AM »
Let's give the Generic Spellcaster (and generic characters generally) tiers.

The Generic Spellcaster can cast Arcane or Divine spells (chosen at character creation). His casting stat will either be Wis (Divine), Int (Arcane), or Cha (Arcane). He gets any 4 skills as class skills, plus Craft, Knowledge (all), and Profession. He gets a bonus feat at first level, and a bonus feat every five levels (ie 1, 5, 10, 15, 20). The bonus feat can be any feat he qualifies for, or a bunch of special class abilities he can choose from (including turn undead). He can choose his spells from the Sor/Wiz, Cleric, and Druid lists. He casts as a Sorcerer, with slightly less spells per day (at 20th level, 1 less 9th level spell), and the same spells known.

What tier would this character be? Has he broken through to the tier 1 classes? Does he break through once you get access to Miracle (Psychic Reformation)?

X-Codes

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Re: Generic Character Tiers
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 03:39:04 AM »
Generic Spellcaster is probably T2 because of the delayed spellcasting.

The other two are probably T3, but frankly I don't care enough about them to look.

the_shadowmind

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Re: Generic Character Tiers
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 04:05:06 AM »
I'd say G Expert, Tier 5.
 G Warrior maybe Tier 4.
The trouble is they are so modular and open to DM fiat they are hard to judge.
Can a Warrior pick Wild Shape as a bonus feat? Maybe. Can a Expert, pick Monk AC bonus? Maybe.
Without DM fiat: then the Warrior/Expert is limited to :Sneak attack, trap sense, (imp.)evasion,Favored Enemy,Smite Evil, uncanny dodge, and Wild Empathy as class features they could get. So they are certainty better that the fighter, but how much depends on how well optimized they which the selection of feats through out all books, and how much DM fiat is in your favor.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Generic Character Tiers
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 09:37:58 AM »
Assuming all things being equal, Generic Spellcaster pre-9th level spells is absolute pinnacle of Tier 2, and after, he's easily Tier 1.  All spontaneous, chooses his spell type at creation, access to the big three lists, same bonus feats as a Wizard, and last but not least with Miracle he's got on the fly list revision, which might as well be memorizing a whole different set of spells like the real vancians do.
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OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Generic Character Tiers
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 11:18:28 AM »
Assuming all things being equal, Generic Spellcaster pre-9th level spells is absolute pinnacle of Tier 2, and after, he's easily Tier 1.  All spontaneous, chooses his spell type at creation, access to the big three lists, same bonus feats as a Wizard, and last but not least with Miracle he's got on the fly list revision, which might as well be memorizing a whole different set of spells like the real vancians do.

This was my thought too - pity it's only for 3 levels of the class...

Mixster

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Re: Generic Character Tiers
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 11:33:03 AM »
Assuming all things being equal, Generic Spellcaster pre-9th level spells is absolute pinnacle of Tier 2, and after, he's easily Tier 1.  All spontaneous, chooses his spell type at creation, access to the big three lists, same bonus feats as a Wizard, and last but not least with Miracle he's got on the fly list revision, which might as well be memorizing a whole different set of spells like the real vancians do.

Let's not forget he has all the wizards spells if he wants to, AND access to DMM shenanigans. Definately Tier 1 for me. He could also choose search as a class skill and make you have no need for a rogue with trapfinding. And with DM Fiat he could get Wild Shape which would make him a little better.

The warrior is probably Tier 3 to 5 depending in DM Fiat, and the Expert is Tier 4-5 depending on DM Fiat IMO.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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juton

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Re: Generic Character Tiers
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 01:51:29 PM »
I've actually played quite a bit with the Generic classes, the Expert and the Warrior are both Tier 4. At the very least they can get a lot of sneak attack die and do as a rogue does, plus both of them are able to replicate the Rogue's basic class features. In my games skill use is very important, so the Expert is equal with the Warrior, but if skills aren't as important then obviously the Warrior is the better of the two since it can do everything an Expert can.

As for the Generic Caster, a lot of people see that it can learn spells from the three best lists in the game and jump to the conclusion its Tier 1, well it isn't. It's better than a Sorcerer, sure, but in play its spell list is frustratingly narrow, you start with one simple weapon and no armour proficiency, which gives real incentive to multiclass early on, but that will delay your spell casting. Really though, it's its lack of spells known that limits this class, you can fix that with Miracle/Revision at 18th level, you can also use Lesser Wish at level 14 to emulate psychic reformation, for a cost