30th Gestalt Arcane//???????

[anubistheta]

Greetings,

I am crafting a character for a Play by Post level 30 gestalt game.
Stats are:
23, 21, 18, 18, 18, 14
I have Wealth by level ( 4.3 million gp)

Sources are:
"All 3.5e material, homebrew on approval. I only have the Dragon Compendium, so no dragon beyond that aside from feats. Once again, QUOTE THE SOURCE, and Monster Classes, Epic Hero and Arcane Hierophant get a straight ok."
Epic Hero Link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102456&highlight=Epic+hero
I have had Frank and K's Seeker of the Lost Wizard Traditions approved with the caveat that Unbreachable Stone Defense is gone, and Uncapped Magic is the capstone.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Seeker_of_the_Lost_Wizard_Traditions_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29
Edit
Basically,the best thing about Seeker of the Lost Wizard Tradition's Uncapped Magic is "spells cast by a Seeker of the Lost Wizard Traditions do not have maximum
 level-dependent effects."  So with the circle magic of Halruaan Elder, I could get CL 40, and sweet blasting.  Especially when combined with Incantrix
/Edit
Epic magic is completely out.

One side will be Wizard 5/ Incantrix 10/ Halruaan Elder 5/ ?
After reading Epic Hero, I think my epic progression for this side should be Epic Hero 3/Epic Incantrix 7
But I am unsure, are there any better options?

For the other side of the progression, I was thinking Factotum 20/?  
This side perplexes me, maybe LA/RHD.  Something with a big +Int
I don't have much knowledge about Tome of Battle, but I have heard Warblade would fit.

Are there any WoTC sources of epic feats that aren't on d20srd?
Also, any suggestions about equipment?

The goal of the build is to be the best arcanist possible, as he is going to basically be ascended.

More Information

LA/RHD go on one side of the Gestalt only.
Setting is very strongly homebrew.
Undead in all forms are right out, the solar has a 11d6 no save undead killing aura.
So no lich or demilich for me. :-(


Much obliged in advance.

[OblivionSmurf83]

I realise you said Arcane, but, but but...

Druid 20 // Archivist 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Hathran 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/X 3

Archivist gets 95% of the wizards spells anyway. Planar Shepherd gives you the usual broken time traits you, and also the crazy Outsider Wild Shape ability. Sacred Exorcist opens up DMM Persist. Hathran lets you cast any spell you know spontaneously, from any of your spells slots. You can spontaneously cast any Divine spell in existence, from any spell slot you have. If you're willing to sacrifice one caster level, take a single level of Chameleon, and you can now cast any Arcane spell too.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

How are races with LA treated?  (LA/HD on one side, or not)

What type of challenges are you planning on facing?

How high-optimization do you want to go?

[anubistheta]

I realise you said Arcane, but, but but...

Druid 20 // Archivist 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Hathran 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/X 3

Archivist gets 95% of the wizards spells anyway. Planar Shepherd gives you the usual broken time traits you, and also the crazy Outsider Wild Shape ability. Sacred Exorcist opens up DMM Persist. Hathran lets you cast any spell you know spontaneously, from any of your spells slots. You can spontaneously cast any Divine spell in existence, from any spell slot you have. If you're willing to sacrifice one caster level, take a single level of Chameleon, and you can now cast any Arcane spell too.

I love the idea, but I think we have a divine spellcaster, and the DM doesn't want me stepping on toes.  Also, the setting is homebrew, so I don't know if there is a fast time trait plain nor I am sure about how Hathran and Acorn of Far Travel would pan out.  I will edit the post to state that the setting is homebrew.

I really like the Harathan class.  I might try to get that integrated.
Arcane just fits the flavor so much better.

[anubistheta]

How are races with LA treated?  (LA/HD on one side, or not)

What type of challenges are you planning on facing?

How high-optimization do you want to go?

LA/RHD are on one side only.

The campaign focuses on some unknown Sauron-like evil entity.  Information is purposefully vague, but we will be conversing with Gods as basically equals.  Some PCs are solars on one side of their gestalt.

For optimization level, not too high.  I would prefer not to dip in classes, to stay with an arcane focus, and to avoid any higher cheese than a moderately well applied Incantrix.  Mildly cheesey, I guess.

I do have to be slightly careful.  The DM said if I start to go too far, extremely high SR monsters will be coming my way, and for no-SR spells, he has a solution for that too.

Thanks.

[OblivionSmurf83]

I realise you said Arcane, but, but but...

Druid 20 // Archivist 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Hathran 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/X 3

Archivist gets 95% of the wizards spells anyway. Planar Shepherd gives you the usual broken time traits you, and also the crazy Outsider Wild Shape ability. Sacred Exorcist opens up DMM Persist. Hathran lets you cast any spell you know spontaneously, from any of your spells slots. You can spontaneously cast any Divine spell in existence, from any spell slot you have. If you're willing to sacrifice one caster level, take a single level of Chameleon, and you can now cast any Arcane spell too.

I love the idea, but I think we have a divine spellcaster, and the DM doesn't want me stepping on toes.  Also, the setting is homebrew, so I don't know if there is a fast time trait plain nor I am sure about how Hathran and Acorn of Far Travel would pan out.  I will edit the post to state that the setting is homebrew.

I really like the Harathan class.  I might try to get that integrated.
Arcane just fits the flavor so much better.

Ok, but bear in mind that Hathran without the Acorn is a bit silly. Since the Acorn is a Druid (from memory?) spell, you'll need to be a Druid or Archivist to cast it.

Have you considered Shadowcraft Mage? I'm thinking a really SAD build would be Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5 // Beguiler 20. Great social skills, a bucket load of skill points, and the ability to cast some awesome spells spontaneously. You could also try Warblade or something similar, but bear in mind Arcane Spell Failure will haunt you in the early days of your career. Also, while I love the Warblade class, as a mage, using a maneuver will almost always be sub-optimal. So you'd basically be entering the class for the d12 HD.

Is any Divine spellcaster completely out? Like, could you do a Arcane/Divine gestalt?

[Ramaloke]

You could do something like a counterspeller/artificer.

Side One: Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3/Seeker of the Lost Wizardly Tradition 7

Side Two: Artificer 30

With all your spells Uncapped you will be able to counterspell like CRAZY. Your 3rd level Dispel Magic suddenly is as good as your 6th level greater dispel magic and easily metamagicked.

Here are the Feats for such a character:

Code: [Select]

FLAW  Arcane Mastery
FLAW  Quicken Spell
BONUS Scribe Scroll
BONUS Improved Initiative
BONUS Spell Focus (Abjuration)
LVL01 Improved Counterspell
BONUS Brew Potion
LVL03 Spell Focus (Conjuration)
BONUS Craft Wondrous Item
BONUS Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
BONUS Legendary Artisan
BONUS Craft Magic Arms and Armor
LVL06 Reactive Counterspell
BONUS Craft Wand
BONUS Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)
BONUS Extraordinary Artisan
LVL09 Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment: Inquisition Domain)
BONUS Craft Rod
LVL12 Combat Reflexes
BONUS Extra Rings
BONUS Craft Staff
LVL15 Arcane Thesis (Counterspell)
BONUS Craft Construct
LVL18 Chain Spell
BONUS Exceptional Artisan
LVL21 Improved Spell Capacity
BONUS Scribe Epic Scroll
LVL24 Improved Spell Capacity
BONUS Craft Epic Wondrous Item
LVL27 Improved Metamagic
BONUS Craft Epic Rod
LVL30 Epic Counterspell*Use the Martial Wizard Variant since Artificer gives Scribe Scroll, nab Improved Initiative because it's a prerequisite, also Wizard of the Sun and Moon since we're ditching familiar*

Grab a Magic Tattoo, Ring of Arcane Might, and an Orange Ioun Stone.

This guy Counterspells at 10 (Arcane Mastery) + 38 (Caster Level) + 2 (Elven Spell Lore) + 4 (Inquisition Domain) + 2 (Spellcaster's Bane) + 5 (Master Specialist) = 61. Any spell with a CL of 50 or less is counterspelled 100% of the time... with a 3rd level spell.

Not only does he counterspell at such a ridiculous level that nobody could ever get a spell off if he doesn't allow it, but he can counterspell any number of times per round. With Battlemagic Perception (heroes of battle spell) or a ring of spell battle he is always aware of casting and he can counterspell even while flat footed, and the best part is the spells he counterspell can be reflected with Master Counterspell from Archmage!

Add to that Artificer goodies, he can craft any magic item he needs, and cast spells from schools hes prohibited through spell trigger devices like wands/staves/scrolls/etc.

For example, craft a wand of Favored of the Martyr (Paladin Spell) and prepare celerity. Now you are abusing the action economy because thats what the cool kids do. Cast 3 spells per round pre epic. Take turns out of order and generally never care about initiative because thats how awesome you are.

This guy is the Super Arcanist because: His arcane power is such that any spellcaster he doesn't like cant cast spells, and he does it with small spells to boot. He can prepare any number of awesome spells per day and use his neat bag o artificer items to cast any utility spell he ever could need. With the ability to craft staves containing any spell he always has the right item for the job.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Actually, you could be a lich or a demilich if you manage to take the otherworldly feat after the lich template's applied.  You'd be an outsider instead of an undead, so you'd lose a lot of benefits, but on the other hand you also wouldn't be instagibbed

[Suzerain]

Well, let's review all the options this character has. He can't take them all, but there's a fair number that can be taken in combination.

Pre-Epic play:

• Hathran + Acorn of Far Travel = spontaneity is good.
• Incantatrix - for persisting
• Halruaan Elder - circle magic
• Master Spellthief - because CL100+ is good
• Dweomerkeeper - Supernatural spell(s) without XP cost
• Shadowcraft Mage - shadow miracles
• Tainted Scholar - unlimited spells (requires you to be undead)
• Sharn - because all spells being SLAs rocks (Dweomerkeeper on steroids); sharn also has other goodies
• Phaerimm - SLAs as spells, plus free sorcerer level = character level at very low ECL

Epic-Level play:

• Black Ethergaunt - because +20 to int is AWESOME while being a lvl17 wizard
• Epic Hathran (or 2-3 other epic prestiges) for epic feats every 2 levels

Homebrew/Stuff

• Seeker of the Lost Wizard Traditions (SLWT) - because uncapped spells are jummy
• Epic Hero - best abilities seem to be Epic Divinity, Epic Magic, Epic Pact Magic, Epic Psionics

Now, combine this with Gestalt...


Without going massively overboard, I'd propose Black Ethergaunt 20 / X 10 // Y 5 / Incantatrix 3 / Hathran 10 / Epic Hero 2 / Epic Hathran 10

Pros: can persist, +20 int, spontaneous wizard casting, circle magic, 5 epic feats from class levels, 2 "Epic Virtues"

I'd probably do X = Factotum (and shuffle a few low-level feats out for FoI) and Y = Cleric (for Initiate of Mystra). If you can take planar wizard sub levels on the BE (and unfettered heroism exists in the campaign), this becomes even more supremely good.

Cons: CL isn't going to be sky-high, and no "Uncapped Magic" (though seriously, 7 levels strikes me as a bit too high a price). A sharn is going to have better DCs after lvl 28.


A good variation on the above build would be to drop Incantatrix (find a different way to persist) and use some early entry cheese for Hathran, in order to squeeze in the required 7 levels of SLWT.

I don't think a sharn build would be better in general; getting unlimited spells known onto a sharn is much harder than getting spontaneity on a BE. On the other hand, a sharn would have access to XP-free wishes. If the simbul can wish herself more spells known, maybe the sharn can, too.

Actually, you could be a lich or a demilich if you manage to take the otherworldly feat after the lich template's applied.  You'd be an outsider instead of an undead, so you'd lose a lot of benefits, but on the other hand you also wouldn't be instagibbed

At the risk of boring people with one of my favorite toys - Wedded to History (Dragon 354) - is a feat that makes you immune against attacks based on your creature type.

[OblivionSmurf83]

Can the above build actually cast Acorn of Far Travel? It's a Druid/Ranger spell.

[telehax]

At that point in the game, even if you hadn't gained access to druid spells yet you could probably even just put half a rank in UMD and get a wand of it, and rely on various skill boost spells.

[Suzerain]

At that point in the game, even if you hadn't gained access to druid spells yet you could probably even just put half a rank in UMD and get a wand of it, and rely on various skill boost spells.

Yes. That, or more probably using limited wish to cast the spell every 100 or so days.

And it's not like the build doesn't have space for Druid 3 thrown in there somewhere...

[Wings of Peace]

Beguiler 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 4 (Lets you cast "exactly" as a cleric of equal level)/Prestige Paladin of the Arcane Order 4/Tainted Scholar 2/X 8

Tricks:

-Generic Rainbow Warmage except as a Beguiler

-Contemplatives wording on the clerical spell casting should qualify you for Initiate of Mystra (Need a rule check on this but I think it works.)

-Divine Metamagic-Heighten Spell + Nightsticks combod with Tainted Metamagic should make all of your metamagic free.

-Use the Savage Species Ritual of Alignment to gain the Evil subtype allowing for inf. taint.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

At the risk of boring people with one of my favorite toys - Wedded to History (Dragon 354) - is a feat that makes you immune against attacks based on your creature type.

Well, not exactly.

First, it only works on living creatures.  So no undead.

Second, it only works on attacks that effect your specific creature type, and only your specific creature type. 

Third, it counts against beneficial effects as well.  So getting buffed can be difficult.

[jolt]

Some Factotum on the non-arcane side is never a bad idea.

[Widow]

I am surprised no one has mentioned type changing spells.  There are several spells that change your type to outsider that could be applied to your favorite demilich build to avoid the solar's undead damaging aura.  Devil's ego is in the Fiendish Codex II, Holy/Infernal Transformation from the spell compendium (grants subtype too), and Greater Visage of the Deity from the Spell Compendium.  I only mention this because the poster's :-( on no undead.

I might go something like this, along I am dipping into dragon mag.

Chaotic Neutral Human
Dread Necromancer 22/Demilich 8//Cleric 5/Eldrich Master 8/Epic Hero 3/Dweomerkeeper 10/ Seeker of the Lost Wizard Traditions 2/Dweomerkeeper 2

Eldrich Master is from dragon mag #280 and gets to add 2 spell lists to his list of spells known (go Wizard and Cleric).  Alternative Sourced spell will allow you to convert arcane to divine for divine metamagic.  12 Level of dweomerkeeper will give you 5 supernatural spells a day, so that covers all your wishes.  Plus the spells that change your type to outsider do not change any of your demi lich abilties, other than not being undead.  Soulfire armor enchantment from Book of Exalted deeds should make you immune to death effects and energy drain.  And if you can swing the iniatiate of mystra feat (selecting an appropiate Deity for your setting) you can cast your spells in antimagic fields.

[Suzerain]

At the risk of boring people with one of my favorite toys - Wedded to History (Dragon 354) - is a feat that makes you immune against attacks based on your creature type.

Well, not exactly.

First, it only works on living creatures.  So no undead.

Second, it only works on attacks that effect your specific creature type, and only your specific creature type.

Let's continue this discussion here. Suffice to say I think you're wrong.

Third, it counts against beneficial effects as well.  So getting buffed can be difficult.

That is certainly true. So e.g. no Haunt Shift or Fell Energy Spell and some other undead-only strategies for you. But you'll still be immune to almost anything. It's a trade-off.

[Widow]

At the risk of boring people with one of my favorite toys - Wedded to History (Dragon 354) - is a feat that makes you immune against attacks based on your creature type.

Just read that and it is really impressive.  I might have to add that to my Fiend of Possession Handbook since fiends can only be targeted by spells that effect alignment or outsiders while possessing ;-)

[anubistheta]

I had forgotten about black ethergaunts.  I brought them up to my DM, and he wanted me to use an even more broken homebrew version. 
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8219832&postcount=315
So the current build would be
Fact 4/ Monster of Legend 1/ Incant 10/ Seeker 3/ Epic Hero 2/ Epic Incant 9/ Epic Hero 1
//
Ethergaunt 17/ Fact 2/ Psion 10/ Fact 1
Using Epic Hero to boost effective Psion levels to 30, and then using Psion to help action economy with my Arcane side.

The undead killer PC is dropping out.
So, if the DM is okay with lich and demilich, I will go with

Fact 4/ MoL 1/Incant 10/Seeker 6/ Epic Incant 9
//
Ethergaunt 17/Lich 4/ Demilich 8/Fact 1

[JohnnyMayHymn]

I like that ethergaunt progression,  i would be tempted to ask about lightning warrior for the other side...