Author Topic: Waazraaths paladin build compendium  (Read 29202 times)

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gorfnad

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2010, 09:16:44 PM »
excellent builds.
itd be cool to see some blackguard builds to... or maybe like pali of slaughter?
Core/SRD Only
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Assassin 9
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Warmind 9

Non-Core

Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Nar Demonbinder 3/ Escalation Mage 6
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Nar Demonbinder 7/ Crusader 2
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Nar Demonbinder X/ Thaumaturgist X
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Crusader 9
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Shadowblade 9
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Ghostfaced Killer 9
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Thief of Life 9
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Binder 4/ Knight of the Sacred Seal 5
Ex-Paladin 1/ Blackguard 10/ Binder 4/ Scion of Dantalion 5



also a question on your very last build. is adding just 1 level of warblade any good for higher level characters like that? whats the bene's?
gain 3 manouvers up to 5th level and a stance (white raven tactics, leading the charge, dancing mongoose, iron heart surge; plenty of options!). Can be a great way to enhance charging builds, never a bad choice.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2010, 10:29:20 PM »
paladin8/sorcerer1/abjurantchampion5/mystictheurge6

ACF: mystic fire knight

Thanks to mystic fire knight you can get your paladin CL very high, 25 CL just on class levels alone  (9 paladin + 16 sorcerer) and it's easy to pump it high with practiced spellcaster (on both sides) and magic items.

Amechra

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2010, 01:15:05 AM »
Oooh, we're posting Paladin Builds?

Part of Mystra's Secret Service (10th level build)

Human (Celestial Bloodline 5) Paladin 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Whatever 10 (Greyguard if you want.)

Feats:
Human: Magical Training (As a sorceror)
1st: Precocious Apprentice (Some Abjuration spell)
Flaw: Arcane Disciple (Domain with an Abjuration spell as its first level spell.)
3rd: Combat Casting
6th: Sword of the Arcane Order
9th: Battle Blessing

Benefits:

-Smite as a 7th level Paladin
-Caster level=BAB+2. As in, 12.
-Casts all spells auto-Quickened.
-Casts Abjuration spells auto-Extended.

Yippee!
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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ninjarabbit

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2010, 08:09:59 PM »
Captian Unicorn......don't look at me like that

Wood elf ranger1/paladin5/beastmaster1/wildplainsoutrider3/ranger10

ACFs: Holy Warrior, Unicorn mount

Feats: 1-mounted combat, 3-devoted tracker holy warrior feat-power attack 6-skill focus (handle animal) 9-ride-by attack 12-divine might 15-spirited charge 18-natural bond
Ranger feats: rapid shot, manyshot, improved precise shot

Unicorn mount with the abilities of a 15th level animal companion

fuinjutsu

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2010, 12:00:53 AM »
The Songsword of Milil

Human Paladin 20

(Harmonious Knight Sub levels from Champions of valour, Spirits ACF from Dungeonscape)

F1) Favored -> Retrain -> Power Attack
F2) Contact (perform) -> Retrain -> Extra Smiting (Sapphire Smite if going Azurin)
H) Versatile Performer
1) From Smite to Song
3) Snowflake Wardance
6) Initiate of Milil
Special) trade inspire competence for Song of the Heart, as per ECS
9) Words of Creation (if being really HAX, otherwise Battle Blessing)
Special) trade inspire greatness for Haunting Melody, as per ECS
12) Divine Power
15) (Battle Blessing?)
18)

Buffadin that gets +CHA to attack and damage.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

X-Codes

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2010, 12:14:28 AM »
The Songsword of Milil

Human Paladin 20

(Harmonious Knight Sub levels from Champions of valour, Spirits ACF from Dungeonscape)

F1) Favored -> Retrain -> Power Attack
F2) Contact (perform) -> Retrain -> Extra Smiting (Sapphire Smite if going Azurin)
H) Versatile Performer
1) From Smite to Song
3) Snowflake Wardance
6) Initiate of Milil
Special) trade inspire competence for Song of the Heart, as per ECS
9) Words of Creation (if being really HAX, otherwise Battle Blessing)
Special) trade inspire greatness for Haunting Melody, as per ECS
12) Divine Power
15) (Battle Blessing?)
18)

Buffadin that gets +CHA to attack and damage.
Song of the Heart requires Inspire Competence, so you can't trade the latter for the former.

skydragonknight

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2010, 01:20:46 AM »
Captian Unicorn......don't look at me like that

Wood elf ranger1/paladin5/beastmaster1/wildplainsoutrider3/ranger10

ACFs: Holy Warrior, Unicorn mount

Feats: 1-mounted combat, 3-devoted tracker holy warrior feat-power attack 6-skill focus (handle animal) 9-ride-by attack 12-divine might 15-spirited charge 18-natural bond
Ranger feats: rapid shot, manyshot, improved precise shot

Unicorn mount with the abilities of a 15th level animal companion

ALLLLLWAYS I WANNA BEEEE WITH YOU
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 09:00:18 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

fuinjutsu

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2010, 03:41:58 AM »
The Songsword of Milil

Human Paladin 20

(Harmonious Knight Sub levels from Champions of valour, Spirits ACF from Dungeonscape)

F1) Favored -> Retrain -> Power Attack
F2) Contact (perform) -> Retrain -> Extra Smiting (Sapphire Smite if going Azurin)
H) Versatile Performer
1) From Smite to Song
3) Snowflake Wardance
6) Initiate of Milil
Special) trade inspire competence for Song of the Heart, as per ECS
9) Words of Creation (if being really HAX, otherwise Battle Blessing)
Special) trade inspire greatness for Haunting Melody, as per ECS
12) Divine Power
15) (Battle Blessing?)
18)

Buffadin that gets +CHA to attack and damage.
Song of the Heart requires Inspire Competence, so you can't trade the latter for the former.

Sure you can, when you're getting two instances of it.  1 from Harmonius knight and 1 from Initiate.

Supermount

LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

Special Mount: 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

Eh, halfing outrider interpretation is iffy.

Faith Scion is much more explicit.

Paladin5/Beastmaster2/Wild Plains Outrider3/Faith Scion10

Or if that interpretation is allowed.

Paladin5/Beastmaster1/Haling Outrider4/Faith Scion10

19th level paladin mount, 21st level Animal companion.

And don't forget to train your mount as a Warbeast.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Waazraath

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2010, 05:48:14 PM »
Wha, nice builds  :D Thnx all, I enjoyed them thoroughly! Srry for posting so late, I know it's bad manner to ignore a thread after starting one, but my computer crashed and I prefer not replying from work (don't want to start a bad habit).


What I am wondering, up to which level are the observations I end the OP with shared or not? Am curious up to which point they are considered valid on this board.

X-Codes

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2010, 07:14:36 PM »
The point about PrCs being a trap is pretty valid.  You really need to advance 2 or 3 of Mount, LoH, Spellcasting, and Smite Evil in order for it to be really good, otherwise you just need some really good features to come out of it (like using Pious Templar as an "accelerated" spell progression class for paladins, and using it's free Weapon Specialization to get MWM and something like Driving Assault or Slashing Flurry).

Lots of Paladin variants give up the mount, however, and make other PrCs less of a trap.  For example, the Healing Spirit ACF makes Gray Guard a much better PrC, since the only thing Gray Guard absolutely doesn't advance is the Mount (and it's un-restricting of Smite Evil is ridiculously useful).

Ok, this thread has actually re-invoked my interest in versatile Paladins.

Duskling Fighter 1/Paladin 4/Gray Guard 2/Divine Champion 1/Gray Guard 2/Contemplative 1/Ordained Champion 3/Gray Guard +6
1) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Charming The Arrow
3) Weapon Focus [longbow]
6) Extra Smite
9) Ranged Smite Evil
12) Rapid Shot, Manyshot (from Ordained Champion), Nimbus of Light (from re-training), Stigmata (from level)
15) Practiced Spellcaster [Divine Champion]
18) Extra Smite

Domains: War mandatory, Protection highly recommended, Incarnum and Time are of notable use.  3 total.

Starting stats: 18 Cha, 13 Dex, 14 Con (+2), 12 Int (-2), 12 Wis, remainder doesn't matter.

Smite Evil: ~+12 to hit, +18 damage (+72 damage on a Manyshot), 7/day
LoH: 14th level Paladin, ~168 hp LoH healing pool (better known as 33 ability score points with Caduceus of Healing)

Oh, and you have the whole "punch people so hard they lose all their magic" thing going for you, too.
As an analogue to this build, there's a melee version, too:

Human w/ Paladin 5/Fighter 0/Rest same
1) Weapon Focus [some melee], Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Battle Jump
3) Cleave
6) Leap Attack
9) Combat Brute
12) Improved Overrun, Shock Trooper (from Ordained Champion), Nimbus of Light (from re-training Cleave), Stigmata (from level)
15) Practiced Spellcaster [Divine Champion]
18) Extra Smite

Domains: Wrath, Protection, War

skydragonknight

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2010, 09:01:47 PM »
Human w/ Paladin 5/Fighter 0/Rest same

Best use of the Fighter class EVER.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

carnivore

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2010, 12:52:53 AM »
What I am wondering, up to which level are the observations I end the OP with shared or not? Am curious up to which point they are considered valid on this board.
ok .... heres my opinion
i agree completely .... so many are influenced by a Prejudiced View of many Classes and PrCs .... they just go allong with the crowd. there are many Very Playable classes that in actual Gameplay are very strong and fun to play, but since few are able to optimize them they just give up and say that they are too weak of a class
Quote
i agree ... in fact i usually recomend a more balanced Stat array (32pt: 16/14/14/14/10/10 or 14/14/14/14/12/12) for most characters ..... even higher stats are obtained when they are Rolled
Quote
although i like the use of flaws ...... i do agree(but if you do, a paladin gains a lot from them)
Quote
i agree
Quote
i agree
Quote
i agree
Quote
i agree .... Dragon mounts are great for this .... also why i like Elf Paladin Sub level + Celestial Mount, or Elf Paladin+Skylord
Quote
trap. There are so many of them that seem nice for a paladin, but don't increase smiting damage, the horse or smiting, and end up with casting from a much weaker spell list, with even less spells, and without benefits of both above mentioned feats. Spellcasting from the evil pally variants in UA isn't supported by splatbooks either, which makes them much weaker.
i agree ... most that really help are already mentioned:
Knight of the Raven
Fist of Raziel

there are some others in BoED that are very nice .... one thing that makes some even better are the Alternative Paladin  classes: Paladin of Freedom+Barbarian+Champion of Gwynharwyf = Win, exa:

Barbarian(whirling frenzy var)(Wolf totem+ Lion Spiritual Totem) 2/Paladin of Freedom 8/ Champion of Gwynharwyf 10

Pounce
Imp Trip
Greater Rage
DR 5/-
4th lvl Spells(ChoG) +2nd lv Pal ..... boosted further by Battle Blessing and Knight of the Arcane Order

Quote
i agree .... even better
Quote
i agree
Quote
i agree


 :D

skydragonknight

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2010, 03:49:12 AM »
Carnivore is a very agreeable fellow.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Etarran

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2010, 09:28:06 AM »
Some other observations from playing a paladin from 1 - 14 that go along with what you mentioned:

- when you first get the horsey, the limit on its presence is actually extremely frustrating. Often worth it to invest in a more permanent mount.

- paladins have some of the best splatbook support of any class - they are playable in core, but gain a lot with every additional book.

- paladin spells, as you mention, can partially replace stat items (though because you benefit a lot from many different stats, a belt of magnificence is an exremely cost-efficient buy).

- a special horse with a fly speed is a practical necessity starting at mid levels.

fuinjutsu

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2010, 09:40:54 AM »

- a special horse with a fly speed is a practical necessity starting at mid levels.

Horseshoes of the Nightmare?  (or whatever they're called)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 06:33:45 PM by fuinjutsu »
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

skydragonknight

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2010, 10:26:19 AM »
Quote from: Horseshoes of Flame, Savage Species page 57.
An ordinary horse wearing these horseshoes may transform up top three times per day, for up to 7 hours each time, into a creature resembling a nightmare, The transformation happens when the owner of the horseshoes speaks the command word. Another command word transforms the horse back to its normal form. Speaking the command is a free action, but the transformation takes a standard action. When transformed, the horse gains a fly speed of 90 ft (good), +1d4 fire damage on each successful hoof attack, +2 Dexterity, +10 intelligence and +6 charisma. A blow from the transformed horse's hooves sets combustible materials alight.

Market Price 30,240 gold
*closes book and sets it back on the shelf*
RAW a special mount, being a magic beast, doesn't seem a likely candidate for a "normal horse"(though maybe an animal companion would work, for future reference). Although making a variation for a special mount warhorse would be simple: just offer to pay the same price but leave off the +10 int/+6 Cha part (you wouldn't want a mount smarter than you anyway).

The good news is that the modified version it kicks the crap out of the 4th level paladin spell winged mount, which only gives a fly speed of 60 ft. The bad news is that the cost is fairly prohibitive for the gear-dependent paladin until about the same time you'd be getting 4th level spells, so you're still in trouble at the middle levels (8-13) when you really need flight...
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Akahi

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2010, 11:45:47 AM »
Well, if your DM is OK with 3.0 material you could use that table on Defenders of Faith, the one that lets you have alternative mounts if you delay the level in the one you get them.
By level 8, you could get a Griphon or a Giant Eagle....

carnivore

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2010, 11:49:40 AM »
thats why a single level Dip into Skylord(BoED) is great .... gain(Pick one): Celestial Giant Eagle, Celestial Giant Owl,or a Celestial Pegasus .... for a Mount

 :D

ninjarabbit

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2010, 09:25:18 PM »
The rangerdin archer

wood elf ranger2/paladin5/ranger2/pioustemplar4/ranger7

ACF: Holy Warrior, unicorn mount

Feats
1-education, power attack (flaw), weapon focus: shortbow (flaw)
ranger2-rapid shot
3-knowledge devotion
6-devoted tracker
Holy warrior-mounted combat
9-true believer
pious templar-weapon specialization: shortbow
12-divine might
pious templar-mounted archery
15-natural bond
ranger6-manyshot
18-quick draw
ranger11-improved precise shot

Divine might with evasion and mettle, 3 smites as a 20th level paladin, unicorn mount with 8th level animal companion abilities, nice archer damage with weapon specialization, knowledge devotion, and divine might (which works with ranged attacks too).

Amechra

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Re: Waazraaths paladin build compendium
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2010, 10:47:17 PM »
The rangerdin archer

wood elf ranger2/paladin5/ranger2/pioustemplar4/ranger7

ACF: Holy Warrior, unicorn mount

Feats
1-education, power attack (flaw), weapon focus: shortbow (flaw)
ranger2-rapid shot
3-knowledge devotion
6-devoted tracker
Holy warrior-mounted combat
9-true believer
pious templar-weapon specialization: shortbow
12-divine might
pious templar-mounted archery
15-natural bond
ranger6-manyshot
18-quick draw
ranger11-improved precise shot

Divine might with evasion and mettle, 3 smites as a 20th level paladin, unicorn mount with 8th level animal companion abilities, nice archer damage with weapon specialization, knowledge devotion, and divine might (which works with ranged attacks too).

You've reminded me...

You know, if you swap some stuff out, you can smite with your ranged attacks. (Ranged Smite Evil is loverly.) Plus, Smite Evil is multiplied by Multishot; as in, you get 4 smites for the price of one; even better with Triadic Knight...

12 smites for the price of 3? YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing