Author Topic: What would make you want to Gish?  (Read 4590 times)

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Endarire

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What would make you want to Gish?
« on: November 12, 2010, 04:16:08 AM »
A Gish in this case is a character who multiclasses caster and sneaker/warrior for heavy magic reliance.  Relying on said magic greatly enhances the non-casting portion of the character, but this person lacks the casting ability of a full caster.
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ImmortalSoul

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 05:43:49 AM »
I do like Gishes for two reasons:
1) They are more interesting to play than straight melees.
2) They greatly fit the theme of the super fast, super hard-to-hit combatant.

My biggest problem is that oftentimes I try to do too many things at once. Or, connected with that, that the campaign is just too low level to use the more interesting PrCs.

dark_samuari

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2010, 05:46:21 AM »
I'm a pretty big fan of the Dwarven Rune Caster, just the whole image meshes well with what I want.

Midnight_v

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 06:14:35 AM »
1. So people can live out those Jedi fantasies?
2. Because I want to use a sword primarily... however there's a point where that becomes unreasonable in the game.
3. So people can play as "The Mighty Thor?"
Course you could do those things as a primary caster honestly . .

 Ultimately though its "The rule of cool" ... from our pop culture there are few primary casters that are the Main character of the story. The magic guy helps the sword guy win the kingdom, get the girl... then said magic guy retreats to a tower somewhere to contemplate the mysteries of the universe and the hero goes and gets laid... or thats how its taught generally speaking.  Since D&D is broke that doesn't play out like we're taught to expect and so people do all kind of things to try make the story work. . .
  Including: Gishdom.
 So yeah most superhero's seem to be gish. Even though they're not. People want to play that stuff so meh.
Imagine it supposed to play out like Playing a Paladin in world of warcraft which is actually good... it just doesn't.
  So yeah... Cool factor of the sword. Coupled with the required rule of "Use magic" in D&D.

  Also... lastly ... distantly... there's always that though that some body might actually figure out a way to turn the magic "off" and you'll then totally pwn them because you fight to. Suprise Beeyotch...etc.

Frankly that really doesn't work either... not really.




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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 06:42:58 AM »
Simply put they are more interesting then Straight Melee characters.
The only thing that competes are Martial Adepts, but they don't have the power of a gish (for the most part).
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RelentlessImp

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2010, 06:50:20 AM »
The fact that you can get 16+ BAB and lose practically nothing over the span of 20 levels.
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Etarran

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2010, 09:52:09 AM »
As Midnight_v said, fantasy and history have led popular entertainment to privilege physical prowess over mental acumen. Those iconic images help people relate to the material. Plus, sometimes it's just nice to have everything. What's cooler than being a powerful wizard or a deadly swordsman? Being a deadly powerful swizdmard!

On a more mechanical note, sometimes the character you are playing needn't be as powerful as humanly possible. This board notwithstanding, most games take place at a power level far below CO standard. Playing a gish (one that relies primarily on melee with spell support, rather than a primary caster with oh-yeah-I-guess-he-has-BAB-but-who-cares) is a good way to avoid having all the power of a full caster while still having more options and surprises than a standard melee character. Plus, a gish, while tough to build properly, tends to play much more simply than a full caster, so it's a good introduction to casting for a new player.


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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 09:56:13 AM »
So that I can have the choice of expending a spell or smashing a face, depending on the situation, resources, and my mood, without feeling like I've unnecessarily gimped myself with one of those choices.

Besides, to paraphrase an old sig, Jade Phoenix Mage is just about the coolest PrC I'd ever imagine.
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RobbyPants

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2010, 10:19:53 AM »
Yeah, mostly, it's rule of cool for me too.  The concept is cool, even if it isn't supported as well as it should be.  Plus, depending on the power level of the campaign, you can roll a pretty solid gish without going overboard, but who can still pull his weight in the party.
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LordBlades

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2010, 10:30:00 AM »
For me it's mainly two things:

First of all, it's the attraction of melee coming from the popular culture: it's much more cinematic to slice your enemy hit after hit, while he desperately tries to land a blow on you than just look at him the wrong way, wave your hand and say 'die'. However I am fully aware that in D&D in order to do melee well you need to be an almost full spellcaster. Therefre gish.

Secondly, I like versatility (my favourite class is druid so go figure  :D ). Being able to choose between 'I hit him with my sword' and 'I hit him with my mace' (typical melee choices) bores me to death, so I usually play casters, but sometimes it just feels awesome to be able to puch the BBEG in the face as opposed to subjecting him to 'Generic Wizard's Awesome no Save just Die'

jameswilliamogle

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2010, 10:37:41 AM »
A gun to my head.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 11:08:09 AM »
Whenever I have the desire to play an effective melee character I use a gish to do it. BAB has nothing to do with it. After all, an attack at -15 isn't worth shit anyways, and getting to hit is trivial (and if you can get enough to hit to PA for full, take another -15, and still hit you can also persist divine power, so who gives a fuck?) so that doesn't matter at all. What does matter is having actual options for both offense and defense, instead of being torn apart regularly in 1-2 rounds.
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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 11:09:09 AM »
Its the best of both worlds. Its fun to play a character that can switch back and forth from melee to magic. I like having unarmored characters, my fav types to play are fast, hard hitting and versatile. So naturally a gish is right up my avenue. Although I will say I prefer druids over pretty much anything  :D
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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2010, 11:47:32 AM »
Rule of cool mostly, though I have yet to play a gish that realizes it's full potential (damn you lower level campaigns!!!)

fuinjutsu

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 01:44:34 PM »
If Wu Jen shenanigans are allowed, Being a XBOX HEUG stompy warrior is just too much fun?

speaking of which, is there any way to get a trample attack as a Wujen gish?
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 02:13:35 PM »
If Wu Jen shenanigans are allowed, Being a XBOX HEUG stompy warrior is just too much fun?

speaking of which, is there any way to get a trample attack as a Wujen gish?

Can you show me a decent Wu Jen Gish build? I've been wanting to play such a character for a while now, So I'm collecting Wu Jen gish builds every time I hear of them.

I would gish for the cool factor. Yes I could kill more by casting a lot of spells, but hitting things with my sword is also fun.
I also gish when my party isn't the most optimized. I love being able to do a bit of everything so I can fill in the spots my party lack. Although I have always found a full casting cleric to be the best "gish", I like dabbling in some sort of arcane gish.
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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 02:16:08 PM »
I like to Gish to have an effective flexible character.  Gishes are probably the ideal characters for the game style of one our our groups DMs.  Heck, even my Beguiler in this CO Diary ended up being a Gish.  He did not end up having to do quite as much Gishing however due to my buddies Swiftblade which was by far the most effective overall character in the game.  

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jameswilliamogle

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2010, 04:40:35 PM »
Can you show me a decent Wu Jen Gish build? I've been wanting to play such a character for a while now, So I'm collecting Wu Jen gish builds every time I hear of them.

I would gish for the cool factor. Yes I could kill more by casting a lot of spells, but hitting things with my sword is also fun.
I also gish when my party isn't the most optimized. I love being able to do a bit of everything so I can fill in the spots my party lack. Although I have always found a full casting cleric to be the best "gish", I like dabbling in some sort of arcane gish.
Just about every combination of Jade Phoenix Mage and Wu Jen is pretty good, and has the ultimate combo of being able to use that wicked "kills you at end of duration" spell without having to suffer the consequences (I think its JPM 10 that gets the ability?  IDK, not too good at ToB).

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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 04:53:51 PM »
Gishes are just fun. I can't really play a tier 1 at full power without blowing up most games I'm in, and really wouldn't want to even if it wouldn't blow up the game. My avatar is a depiction of my favorite character who is a gish of sorts, started as primarily a fighter when first played many years ago and has evolved as new rules have been released to better reflect the character.
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Re: What would make you want to Gish?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2010, 05:07:35 PM »
Can you show me a decent Wu Jen Gish build? I've been wanting to play such a character for a while now, So I'm collecting Wu Jen gish builds every time I hear of them.

I would gish for the cool factor. Yes I could kill more by casting a lot of spells, but hitting things with my sword is also fun.
I also gish when my party isn't the most optimized. I love being able to do a bit of everything so I can fill in the spots my party lack. Although I have always found a full casting cleric to be the best "gish", I like dabbling in some sort of arcane gish.
Just about every combination of Jade Phoenix Mage and Wu Jen is pretty good, and has the ultimate combo of being able to use that wicked "kills you at end of duration" spell without having to suffer the consequences (I think its JPM 10 that gets the ability?  IDK, not too good at ToB).
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