Trying to Optimize a JPM

[Senevri]

JPM is very fun for high-crit weapon, dolorous blow, keen edge, blood in the water combo, which is pretty much all the power you need for an average-powered game.

[MalcolmSprye]

I mentioned it in my opening post, could someone clarify for me:  are archetypes feats?  Or is it just sort of like alternate class features?

I like the Wyrm of War Archetype that Linguist mentioned.  How's this sound?

Sorc 6/ JPM 2/ Abjurant Champ 4/ JPM 8

probably take devoted spirit stuff, since my wisdom will be my only dump, and Desert wind looks wisdom happy.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

They're basically true dragon freebies.  You're a true dragon -> you get them for free.
If you racially cast cleric spells as arcane spells you lose them, but it specifically calls out that you still get the benefits if you have nothing to lose (like being a white dragon or something).

[Mixster]

Here is a "Dragon" themed gish that might work:
Silverbrow Human Bard 6/ Warblade or Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
9th Level Spells at CL 16 (see Sublime Chord), 8th level maneuvers at IL 16, BAB 17
It's also has a decent amount of skill points, can wear armor, and can really boost the rest of the party.
Feats Combos: Dragonfire Inspiration + Song of the White Raven + Song of the Heart + Words of Creation + other assorted Inspire Courage Optimization. Other feats to consider would be Versatile Spellcaster, Melodic Casting, Snowflake Wardance, and Clarion Commander.

Isn't that a pretty MAD build for a 28 point buy?
You would benefit greatly from a decent int, would need a good Cha since it is your casting stat, and con of course and strength because you want to hack things to pieces. That is 4 abilities in a 28 point buy, pretty bad if you ask me.
The build is awesome though, in a 36 point buy I would be sold immediately. But I just don't think you get enough for your money with 28 point buy. I could be wrong though.

I like the simple Sorcerer 4/Warblade 2/JPM 10/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 3 build. It gives 16BAB and 16 CL. With extra CL from loredrake and draconic ritual you can go to CL19. Which makes you a decent gish. You would only have an ML of 6 though which would hurt you.

[InnaBinder]

Here is a "Dragon" themed gish that might work:
Silverbrow Human Bard 6/ Warblade or Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
9th Level Spells at CL 16 (see Sublime Chord), 8th level maneuvers at IL 16, BAB 17
It's also has a decent amount of skill points, can wear armor, and can really boost the rest of the party.
Feats Combos: Dragonfire Inspiration + Song of the White Raven + Song of the Heart + Words of Creation + other assorted Inspire Courage Optimization. Other feats to consider would be Versatile Spellcaster, Melodic Casting, Snowflake Wardance, and Clarion Commander.

Isn't that a pretty MAD build for a 28 point buy?
You would benefit greatly from a decent int, would need a good Cha since it is your casting stat, and con of course and strength because you want to hack things to pieces. That is 4 abilities in a 28 point buy, pretty bad if you ask me.
The build is awesome though, in a 36 point buy I would be sold immediately. But I just don't think you get enough for your money with 28 point buy. I could be wrong though.

It looks like it works just fine with STR 14 DEX 10 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 16.  Feeling squishy?  Swap CON and STR.  Prefer to remain at a distance?  Swap STR and DEX.  Would it be better with higher stats?  Sure, but that's a universal truth for any character.

[BeholderSlayer]

If you can tough it out for the lower levels, Slippers of Battledancing replace your strength bonus with charisma for attack and damage.

[MalcolmSprye]

Here is a "Dragon" themed gish that might work:
Silverbrow Human Bard 6/ Warblade or Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
9th Level Spells at CL 16 (see Sublime Chord), 8th level maneuvers at IL 16, BAB 17
It's also has a decent amount of skill points, can wear armor, and can really boost the rest of the party.
Feats Combos: Dragonfire Inspiration + Song of the White Raven + Song of the Heart + Words of Creation + other assorted Inspire Courage Optimization. Other feats to consider would be Versatile Spellcaster, Melodic Casting, Snowflake Wardance, and Clarion Commander.

Isn't that a pretty MAD build for a 28 point buy?
You would benefit greatly from a decent int, would need a good Cha since it is your casting stat, and con of course and strength because you want to hack things to pieces. That is 4 abilities in a 28 point buy, pretty bad if you ask me.
The build is awesome though, in a 36 point buy I would be sold immediately. But I just don't think you get enough for your money with 28 point buy. I could be wrong though.

I like the simple Sorcerer 4/Warblade 2/JPM 10/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 3 build. It gives 16BAB and 16 CL. With extra CL from loredrake and draconic ritual you can go to CL19. Which makes you a decent gish. You would only have an ML of 6 though which would hurt you.

I realized I think its a 30 point buy... but yes, very MAD. With slippers of battle dancing for damage, I could do 10, 14, 12,14, 6,16.  Go with a combat reflexes, thicket of blades package.  What's a good weapon for that?

[Mixster]

Here is a "Dragon" themed gish that might work:
Silverbrow Human Bard 6/ Warblade or Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8
9th Level Spells at CL 16 (see Sublime Chord), 8th level maneuvers at IL 16, BAB 17
It's also has a decent amount of skill points, can wear armor, and can really boost the rest of the party.
Feats Combos: Dragonfire Inspiration + Song of the White Raven + Song of the Heart + Words of Creation + other assorted Inspire Courage Optimization. Other feats to consider would be Versatile Spellcaster, Melodic Casting, Snowflake Wardance, and Clarion Commander.

Isn't that a pretty MAD build for a 28 point buy?
You would benefit greatly from a decent int, would need a good Cha since it is your casting stat, and con of course and strength because you want to hack things to pieces. That is 4 abilities in a 28 point buy, pretty bad if you ask me.
The build is awesome though, in a 36 point buy I would be sold immediately. But I just don't think you get enough for your money with 28 point buy. I could be wrong though.

I like the simple Sorcerer 4/Warblade 2/JPM 10/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 3 build. It gives 16BAB and 16 CL. With extra CL from loredrake and draconic ritual you can go to CL19. Which makes you a decent gish. You would only have an ML of 6 though which would hurt you.

I realized I think its a 30 point buy... but yes, very MAD. With slippers of battle dancing for damage, I could do 10, 14, 12,14, 6,16.  Go with a combat reflexes, thicket of blades package.  What's a good weapon for that?

Halberd or Spiked Chain.

[SorO_Lost]

Also, Steel Dragon > Kobold.

Steel dragon?

I think you must mean something else.  Where can i find the steel dragon you speak of?

Aye, but that page is missing information.

Have my notes.

Code: [Select]

Steel (forgotten realms, dragons of faerun)
Stats: 4HD/2LA, Small
Alignment: ?
Adjustments: +2 con/cha
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 60ft, fly 150ft (average), swim 30ft
Breath: line of acid, 1d6 & cone of poison, 1 con damage then 1 min later again.
Qualities: alternate form, immunity to acid, SR 16, spells; sorcerer 1st + knowledge & trickery
Spellcasting: WrymlingPrinted in 2006, trumps the web link in all areas it defines. So you keep the spellcasting but inherit the limits on polymorph (humanoids only).
You can trade away the divine spells (cast as arcane spells btw) to take Lore Drake and advance your spellcasting by two levels.

For further details.
Steel vs Tome (proving steel dragons are the best true dragon for spellcasters)
River Ravages (proving steel is better than a kobold, even if it makes up rules, any point past ECL 8)

[OblivionSmurf83]

As people have suggested, Wyrm of War is a very good choice, if you're already pulling DW Kobold antics.

You could also try and go for Incantatrix/Arcane Disciple (War) and just beef up your BAB that way. However, that will be a fairly feat-heavy choice.

[MalcolmSprye]

As people have suggested, Wyrm of War is a very good choice, if you're already pulling DW Kobold antics.

You could also try and go for Incantatrix/Arcane Disciple (War) and just beef up your BAB that way. However, that will be a fairly feat-heavy choice.

Would people agree that Wyrm of war is somewhat less full of cheese than loredrake? It seems like the MAD of this build mitigates the cheese a bit more.

[Akalsaris]

I'd say it's less cheesy overall, though using it to qualify without any WB levels might raise some eyebrows.