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Author Topic: Rogue - Max It!  (Read 4450 times)

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KristofferA

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Rogue - Max It!
« on: October 12, 2011, 07:34:38 PM »
I'm a bit new to D&D, and I need some help to create my rogue as I want it.
If it's possible, I want my rogue to do it's role as a team support, as well as a good damage dealer.  

At the moment I was thinking of a Xvart(something) rogue, swashbuckler, fighter based character.
By using daring outlaw and daring warrior, I would be able to get a good SA, feats, and some BAB.
But I would have to spend about 10 levels on it before building some good damage.

What I am looking for in my rogue is high damage output, lots of skills, relatively good speed in a fight, an easy way of getting to SA.

If any one have some "outside the box" thinking on how to do this(involving race, templates, classes, feats, items, enchantment, spells, etc.).
It would be fun with an extra couple of arms to do SA with. :P

In the campaign I'm playing, I'll be able to use anything form the WotC books, no homebrew classes (although I might could use a self made cross-bread/template, if it doesn't exist in the books, and it's possible to cross them).

At the moment I need a level 10 build, but a high level build for later would be nice too.

I would gladly accept anything you have to offer :)

Thanks.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 07:37:38 PM by KristofferA »
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KristofferA

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 07:35:18 PM »
reserved
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Mixster

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 07:57:04 PM »
Consider going feat rogue / Swashbuckler / Something to get sneak attack with Daring Outlaw.

Plenty of feats, skill points, and sneak attack damage.

Alternatively Factotum is your friend.
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Quote from: JaronK on January 19, 2011, 06:42:07 PM
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Shadowhunter

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 08:01:11 PM »
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9073.0

Level 10 you say?
I'd do something like:

Strongheart Halfling Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Swordsage 2.

Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 1/Swordsage 1/Rogue +2/Swashbuckler +2/Fighter 1/Swordsage +1/Rogue +1.
scores into INT, DEX and CON.

Feats:
1 Craven, OPEN FEAT
3 Shadow Blade
6 Daring Outlaw
9 Staggering Strike

Bonus Feats:
Weapon Finesse (Swash 1.)
Two-Weapon Fighting (Fgt 1.)

Alternative Class Features:
Hit-and-Run.

Craven: Champions of Ruin.
Shadow Blade + Swordsage: Tome of Battle
Staggering Strike: Complete Adventurer.

6d6 Sneak + weapon damage + DEX + (maybe) DEX + INT + 10 (craven) per attack, 3 attacks. 4 with Flashing Sun.
Each attack that nets sneak force Fort DC (damage dealt) or be staggered.

Staggered: Having nonlethal damage exactly equal to current hit
points. A staggered character may take a single move action or
standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round
actions).
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[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

Quote from: Operation Shoestring on November 08, 2009, 03:11:54 AM
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

KristofferA

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 08:55:20 PM »
Thanks for the reply
@Mixster: To get the Daring Outlaw, I would need to have a rogue 3 and a swashbuckler 3, i think. At this point I have the SA of a lvl 6 rogue, and some bonuses of the Swashbuckler, but where to go from here. Daring Outlaw does not stack with any other (except fighter w/Daring warrior). Am I supposed to continue these two classes?

@Shadowhunter: It looks good, but aren't there more to gain on race? Strongheart Halflings have a bonus feat, but Xvart have a -2LA. Is there any templates, LA+0, +1, or +2  that you would gain more out of.
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sirpercival

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 09:32:29 PM »
Quote from: KristofferA on October 12, 2011, 08:55:20 PM
Thanks for the reply
@Mixster: To get the Daring Outlaw, I would need to have a rogue 3 and a swashbuckler 3, i think. At this point I have the SA of a lvl 6 rogue, and some bonuses of the Swashbuckler, but where to go from here. Daring Outlaw does not stack with any other (except fighter w/Daring warrior). Am I supposed to continue these two classes?

@Shadowhunter: It looks good, but aren't there more to gain on race? Strongheart Halflings have a bonus feat, but Xvart have a -2LA. Is there any templates, LA+0, +1, or +2  that you would gain more out of.

What version of xvart are you talking about?  The one in Dragon Mag 339 is LA +0.
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Quote from: Mixster on October 25, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
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Vicerious

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 10:10:20 PM »
If you've got free LA to throw around, I'd recommend either the Shadow creature template (Lords of Madness, +2 LA) or the Dark creature template (Tome of Magic, +1).  Dark is Shadow's little brother.  Either would provide a solid boost to stealth and mobility.
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weenog

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 10:16:34 PM »
He doesn't, xvart is not LA -2.  I'm just wondering whose alt account he is.
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KristofferA

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 04:51:49 AM »
According to the Crystal Keep Index - Xvart is a LA -2, but when i looked up the source Dragon Magazine #339 pg. 64. It's a LA 0, with a CR -2.
I should have read the source before posting.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 04:53:31 AM by KristofferA »
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DrHorrible

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 10:56:25 AM »
Telling Blow is a must IMHO.

Use keen kukri to dish out a s*it-load of d6.


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Shadowhunter

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 02:09:53 PM »
I'm sure there are better races to pick than halfling, I just chose that one because it had a Dex bonus and a bonus feat.
Admittedly, I couldn't come up with a good feat to pick at 1st level, so the point is moot.
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[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

Quote from: Operation Shoestring on November 08, 2009, 03:11:54 AM
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

nightshade

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 02:21:09 PM »
Dragonfire Inspiration Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven and Snowflake Wardance gets the job done  ;)
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Mixster

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2011, 08:12:47 PM »
Quote from: KristofferA on October 12, 2011, 08:55:20 PM
Thanks for the reply
@Mixster: To get the Daring Outlaw, I would need to have a rogue 3 and a swashbuckler 3, i think. At this point I have the SA of a lvl 6 rogue, and some bonuses of the Swashbuckler, but where to go from here. Daring Outlaw does not stack with any other (except fighter w/Daring warrior). Am I supposed to continue these two classes?

Just more feat Rogue essentially. Yeah you lose some BAB, but you get feats, sneak attack and skill points to your heart contents, probably a level of Crusader at 8 to get thicket and some save maneuvers.
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Quote from: JaronK on January 19, 2011, 06:42:07 PM
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

X-Codes

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2011, 08:43:04 PM »
Quote from: nightshade on October 13, 2011, 02:21:09 PM
Dragonfire Inspiration Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven and Snowflake Wardance gets the job done  ;)
Psh, at least have the decency to include a level of Rogue!

Changeling Rogue 1/Dual-Focused-Specialist Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 5/Swiftblade 9
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Rebel7284

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2011, 11:28:41 PM »
Quote from: X-Codes on October 13, 2011, 08:43:04 PM
Quote from: nightshade on October 13, 2011, 02:21:09 PM
Dragonfire Inspiration Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven and Snowflake Wardance gets the job done  ;)
Psh, at least have the decency to include a level of Rogue!

Changeling Rogue 1/Dual-Focused-Specialist Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 5/Swiftblade 9

Don't you need 5 levels of arcane casting before Mundbender?
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X-Codes

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2011, 11:32:17 PM »
Practiced Spellcaster.
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nightshade

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2011, 06:31:34 AM »
Quote from: X-Codes on October 13, 2011, 08:43:04 PM
Psh, at least have the decency to include a level of Rogue!

Rogue 3/Chameleon 7  :eh
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X-Codes

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2011, 04:47:23 PM »
Quote from: nightshade on October 15, 2011, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: X-Codes on October 13, 2011, 08:43:04 PM
Psh, at least have the decency to include a level of Rogue!

Rogue 3/Chameleon 7  :eh
Is that a challenge?  Are we looking to see who can come up with the most optimal build with the most levels of rogue, now?  :lmao
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Rogue - Max It!
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2011, 06:13:47 PM »
Quote from: KristofferA on October 13, 2011, 04:51:49 AM
According to the Crystal Keep Index - Xvart is a LA -2, but when i looked up the source Dragon Magazine #339 pg. 64. It's a LA 0, with a CR -2.
I should have read the source before posting.

Yep, only sometimes are LA and CR directly linked.
Same with unofficial sources ... heck even official sources.
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