Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Dawnmor September 17, 2010, 03:34:37 PM
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Alright, WHEW! that was long typing for a header.
Now, from what I have read on these boards some people suggest that taking classes from base classes is far superior to taking the actual feats that I already have limited feats as it is.
THIS CHARACTER IS ALREADY IN PLAY.
SO!, fixing the character threw game play is the only solution, until he dies or until I get bored of him. Whichever comes first. So ill list the requirements and such for each PRC to save time on you guys looking at books or accessing your memory lol.
Fist of the Forest: Handle Animal 4, Survival 4, Great Fort, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power attack, +4 BAB
Bear Warrior : Rage or frenzy, Power attack, +7 BAB
Reaping Mauler : Escape Artist 5, Tumble 5, Clever Wrestling, Improved Unarmed Strike, +5 BAB
Now Right now the character is atm a (Feral +1, Barb 2), my character is gaining a level and I will be ECL 4, but character level 3 because of the +1 Feral template.
I was considering taking my 3rd level class into fighter so I can get 2 feats, more HD. However, looking at what the Monk gets I get 2 free Feats including Improved Unarmed Strike. +2 Fort, Ref, Will. No BAB, but My strength being 26, 30 with rage a +8 strength kinda makes up for the loss of a BAB I think?.
Right now im looking at possibly a Barb 3, Fighter 4, Fist of the Forest 3, Bear Warrior 1, Reaping Mauler 5, Monk 3, XXX 1.
Due to XP Penalties for Cross classing. I gotta stay within 1 level as you all know.
Problem is I am not sure if this is a wise choice?, Doing an Unarmed Swordsage instead of monk I dontknow if it would be better or not?. Monk 4 by the time im 20?, or Unarmed swordsage 4 by the time im 20, problem is CLAW doesnt work with shadowblade as I am currently using claws which do 2d8 + 16 (Thats both claws not individual). From what I think of Bears they make good grapplers and a Monk 4 would get me that Grappling effect quite nicely.
The other problem is that I am running into the fact that once I take Fist of the Forest I forego all Armor. With Monk I still forgo all armor regardless.
With Fist of the Forest 3 I get a d10 Unarmed damage, Combined with Monk d6 or d8 (cant remember), Superior unarmed strike, would increase everything by 5 levels. Problem with that!!!. is that I dont know the exact Unarmed damage I would get. Would I use the higher of the Monk damage? or what? With First of the Forest I think im still looking at unarmed damage around a 10th level monk (I THINK!).
My AC is out of whack with no armor. The possibility of grabbing Vow of poverty is up there and a serious consideration. BUT!, Dropping Fighter (Which means no dungeoncrasher for a whopping 2d6 + full strength) I think?. Dropping fighter by 2, Drop Monk all together and grab Warshaper 4 or 5?. Which furthers my delimna as Warshaper works only if im in Bearform while raging!.
What does people think?
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Either Monk or Unarmed Swordsage would work if you just take a 2 level dip.
I'd stay away from Vow of Poverty unless your DM is really stingy with loot.
FotF, monk unarmed damage, and Superior Unarmed Strike interact oddly, I think someone else is better suited to explaining it.
I'd go for 4 levels of Warshaper (no more) than Reaping Mauler, personally.
And benefits from Warshaper such as the increased Str, Con, and etc, apply when you're in your normal form.
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The DM isnt Stingy on loot, if anything I think we got around 100k in copper, Tons of Tower shields and everything. All on the Shapeshifting doggy.
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ahh the tower shield schenanigans :D
+ 1 on the stay away from VoP unless you dm is stingy.
last time we talked(via trillian) you were talking about making him a grappler, thats when i suggested the dip in fighter for the bonus feats. are you still wanting to go grappler?
a good grappling feat is earths embrace. when grappled it adds +d12 to your normal dmg. i found that somewhat usefull for my own grappler.
k so what is your goal here? it looks kinda like your undecided. i would say warshaper wouldnt be worth it imo since it only is good for when in bear form.
with your str you have many options open, the grappler and dungeon crasher of course. you might look into a charger build, or a hood.. could be usefull
:D
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Isnt it generally considered a good idea to stay away from Reaping Mauler?
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Isnt it generally considered a good idea to stay away from Reaping Mauler?
If "generally" is "all the time", then yes.
Do you have access to Forgotten Realms books? If so, the Black-blood Cultist from Champions of Ruin is amazing for grapplers. I've had a character one-round anything with 200 or fewer hp by abusing Feral Grapple (all I need to do is succeed on one grapple check and a full PA makes it painful, I was using Rapidstrike, though, so your damage won't be as high). You already will have two of the prerequisites (Improved Unarmed Strike and Rage ability), so grabbing a Mask of the Tiger (MIC) will net you Track (or you can spend a feat on it, whichever). The trick is that you will need to be CN, CE, or NE, so I hope you're one of those alignments.
What I would do is LA 1/Barbarian 3/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Black Blood Cultist 4/Bear Warrior 5/Black Blood Cultist 4/Fist of the Forest 1. If LA Buyoff is allowed, then you get another level of Fist of the Forest. You do this and you will be devestating in grapples. Oh, and you get your Wisdom and Constitution added to your AC, so your loss of Dex to AC when grappling doesn't hurt quite as much.
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DNA: I am undecided. Im always undecided, thats the curse of DND :(. After my last game, it turns out my character is the BONKER/Polish mine detector. In other words, I run around carrying people/Dogs (Shakes head about the dog), around and take the hits from the Traps that do damage, Heal up, then get damage again by taking the hits on another trap. We call that a BONKER/Polish Mine Detector :).
I am undecided as to where to go though. It is a possible outcome that I may end up just sticking with Barbarian or to do a Barbarian/Fighter type of build. For the moment, Im the only real tank/DPSer in the group. The Dog does decent damage with his bite and soon hes going into Warshaper because it will give him arms and such, But I dunno, My brother who plays the shapeshifting pooch is far better at optimizing and he makes settling on an idea seem easy in comparison to myself.
If we kept playing for the past 2 or 3 weekends I wouldnt be second guessing myself but I find that I am second guessing myself alot. All I know is Charge in, beat shit up, and tick off the rogue with playing impatient characters. My Strong HD, High Con, considerably high Str makes me a valueable member of the team, but with my Fast Healing and high HD and Con Modifier, being unable to die easily makes me feel quite godly and godly isnt fun. Being able to die when the time has come is fun however.
I am a very conflicted person, cantcha tell?
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Have you considered the Whirling Frenzy ACF as an alternative to the standard barbarian rage?
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Solo: Would it work with my characters Claws ?, thats his primary weapons right now.
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Presumably yes?
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Alright with further research it seems that the direction I want to go is....
Barb 2, Fighter 2, Fist of the Forest 3, Bear warrior 1, Warshaper 4, Horizon Walker 6. Grab The neccessary useless feats and Looks decent. Then PRAY! we may play past level 20 lol, add more fun to things heh. Maybe drop out Horizon walker, grab the 2 feats requires and get the Gwythen PRC from BoED.
Problem with that is that if I drop Horizon Walker I wont get Tremor sense or Dimension door d4 rounds.
Now, I am also in a delimna of what good gear to get. As our Cleric gets low on healing, Healing Belts are priority for my character. Buy a couple of those, get someway to make throwing the belts on as a free action and BAM!. Then Get the Gloves of Endless Javalins. Could work quite decently as starting gear. With Fist of the Forest, I get no armor so increases to AC would be a good way to go too. Monks belt is up there sense Fist of the Forest doesnt give Wisdom to AC unfortunately.
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my Fast Healing and high HD and Con Modifier, being unable to die easily makes me feel quite godly and godly isnt fun.
Enjoy it while you've got it. Save or die effects, death by Con 0, death by level drain, and certain other things don't give a damn about fast healing and lots of hp. You'll run into these soon enough.
IIRC, Feral template has a pretty high claw damage. You may not be able to make iterative attacks with the claws directly, but as your base attack improves and you're entitled to more attacks per round, you might want to consider picking up Beast Strike (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Beast_Strike) to get your claw damage out more often.
Regarding Fist of the Forest and no armor, go re-read that class, it's much less restrictive than Monk. Con to AC is the only thing you lose if you're wearing armor, if your Con modifier is less than the armor bonus you would get from the armor you have, there's little point not wearing it.
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Every time I see Bear Warrior I get so confused. Why Bear Warrior? It must be because they haven't thought of Primeval. You wait one extra level and get WAY more out of it.
Fighter 2/ Barbarian (Lion Totem) 2/ Warshaper 4/ Deepwarden 1/ Primeval 1/ Fist of the Forest 1/ Deepwarden 1/ Primeval 8
Racial Emulation, gets you into Deepwarden.
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Oh, Reaping Mauler, how I wish you didn't suck. Sleeper Hold and Devastating Grapple would be kind of neat if they were attached to a class that made you any dang good at grappling and had DCs that didn't suck. Oh, well.
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Oh, Reaping Mauler, how I wish you didn't suck. Sleeper Hold and Devastating Grapple would be kind of neat if they were attached to a class that made you any dang good at grappling and had DCs that didn't suck. Oh, well.
I'd ask for them as feat options, with a DM who understands why things suck. But mine's play the Heironeous class about the lightning sword...
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I think I may grab (Ettercap Rager) I think the name is. Its from I think Frostburn. While raging you get the normal stuff, BUT you get a +6 to con because of the Rager feat.
My Con Modifier atm is 22, I believe. I am not wearing much of anything as far as armor and my dex is 10.
26 str, 10 dex, 22 con, 10 int, 16 wis, 10 Cha. Those are the stats after Modifiers.
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Ability modifiers are the ability minus (10 if the ability is an even number, or 11 if it's odd), divided by 2. If your Con is 22, your Con modifier is only +6. Similar protection to a +1 breastplate (though the breastplate doesn't apply to Touch AC). Increasing your Con to 28 would bring your Con modifier up to +9. Better than some suits of armor, but you don't have nearly enough Con to safely assume that going naked is automatically better protection than wearing armor. Choose carefully, at least until your Con is somewhere in the mid 30s or higher.
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If you're going bear warrior then you should take 5 levels of it. The difference between a black bear and brown bear is significant: large size, +8 str, +4 con, and +3 natural armor.
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If you're going bear warrior then you should take 5 levels of it. The difference between a black bear and brown bear is significant: large size, +8 str, +4 con, and +3 natural armor.
Bear Warrior 1st > Bear Warrior 5th > Primeval 1st
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If you're going bear warrior then you should take 5 levels of it. The difference between a black bear and brown bear is significant: large size, +8 str, +4 con, and +3 natural armor.
Bear Warrior 1st > Bear Warrior 5th > Primeval 1st
Are those arrows or greater than signs?
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Greater than.
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I'm just double checking... you are completely and utterly abandoning Reaping Mauler, RIGHT? RIGHT?
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If you're going bear warrior then you should take 5 levels of it. The difference between a black bear and brown bear is significant: large size, +8 str, +4 con, and +3 natural armor.
Bear Warrior 1st 5th> Bear Warrior 5th 1st> Primeval 1st
Fixed for you.
Large size makes a tremendous difference for any unarmed character and even more so for a grappler. An extra 4 levels of Bear Warrior are worth it.
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Bear Warrior 1st 5th> Bear Warrior 5th 1st> Primeval 1st
Fixed for you.
Large size makes a tremendous difference for any unarmed character and even more so for a grappler. An extra 4 levels of Bear Warrior are worth it.
I think he actually just used the wrong symbol entirely - it make more sense to be saying "Primeval 1 > BW 5" in that light, since Primeval 1 grants a Large alternate form immediately.
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Hahahah, it was late when I posted that; Benly got it right, I meant:
Bear Warrior 1st < Bear Warrior 5th < Primeval 1st.
I know Large size is important, that's why I'd prefer not wasting 5 levels in a garbage class to get it, especially when you can get it in 1, with a better form.
I'd forgotten the intent was a grappler, hahah. Ah well, you want to grapple well? This is the class for you. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual)
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Gavinfoxx: LOL, Yes, I dropped Reaping Mauler.
Right now, I got no direction aside from a Barbarian 7, Bear Warrior 5, Warshaper 2.
Otherwise, I got no direction except to get Extra rage with my next feat/feats.
Im a Barbarian 3 right now.
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You could go Barb4/Ranger3 before turning into a Bear Warrior
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I personally prefer Bear Warrior to Primeval because of BW's lack of noticeable prerequisites.
I don't like burning 3 feats for little noticeable gain.