Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : weenog July 18, 2010, 07:27:01 PM
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I want to give dragonfire inspiration a try and it's been a while since I've played a monster-y character, so I'm thinking a half howling dragon human could be interesting. I have a 28 point buy to work with. LA buyoff is allowed, but LA will be relevant because the character needs to be playable by ECL 10 or earlier. The race and template are modified as follows.
Human: Racial ability score adjustments of +1 and -1 to any two ability scores of their choice (can double up for no net change). +2 racial bonus on any one skill, or a +1 racial bonus on either attack or damage rolls with either melee or ranged weapons (weaponlike spell effects are excluded).
Half-Dragon: All sizes get wings. Breath weapon 1/minute instead of 1/day. Breath weapon DC scaling includes class HD. Racial HD become d12s with 4/4 BAB, all good saves, and 6+Int skill points, but that's irrelevant to a human.
I want to get iterative attacks while keeping both claws and the bite free, so I'll probably dip an automatic MWP class for armor spikes -- I'm thinking either barbarian and take the whirling frenzy rage variant, or thug fighter and get sneak attack instead of bonus feats (only if I can talk the DM into Craven). Paladin is iffy, the DM's fairly relaxed about their behaviour but I'm sick of playing Good, and the different alignment variants are banned.
I'd like to grab Jack of All Trades and try bardic knack instead of bardic knowledge. I'd also definitely like to get Versatile Spellcaster and Multiattack, and I'm considering Improved Multiattack since the attack bonuses look a bit poor -- is this worth doing?
Less is more -- the fewer books used, the better.
No matter how I start assembling a character along those lines, he winds up looking very squishy, which is no good for tearing things apart up-close. I know I can get a fairly good set of separately-checked miss chances with spells later, but that doesn't help me now. Is a half-dragon melee bard around ECL 10 simply inviable, or am I probably just doing it wrong?
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How about adding in Feral?
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How about adding in Feral?
Normally I'd love to, but no can do. Feral only applies to humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and half-dragon would change my type to dragon, DM's a stickler for that kind of thing. Bringing LA up to +4 doesn't help with the missing HD problem, either.
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will try to get one for you later
:D
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Can you go Feral Human >> Half-Dragon?
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will try to get one for you later
:D
A half-dragon pixie dominating melee would be hilarious, but I'd like the bonus feat and skill points from human, and also please be aware that the DM wouldn't accept pixie as a base race. :lol
Base races available are Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, Gnome, Kobold, Orc, Half-Orc, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Shifter, Raptoran, Peke*, Illmerrini*, Minitaur*, and Maganimal*. All are somewhat modified from their normal selves, some more than others.
* Weird homebrew races. Minitaur (size small with a Str bonus) and Maganimal (anything animal or vermin with 1 or fewer HD that could be a familiar, with racial Int set to 10 and a few other changes) have some interesting potential, but they're not what I'm after, here.
Can you go Feral Human >> Half-Dragon?
Unfortunately not, and there is still the missing HD problem from adding more LA. Fast healing is a wonderful thing, but only if you have enough hp to be around to heal after the damage comes in. And the natural armor increased to +6 isn't so impressive when I've already got a +4.
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Duskblade(PHB II) X/ Prestige Bard(Unearthed Arcana) could work: bigger Hitdie(d8), Martial Weapon Profs & Channel Spell are great for melee.
The Downside is, that your Spellcasting will be subpar, compared with the Standard Bard and that your DM has to allow this Variant Rule(there should be no Base Class Bard, if you use the Prestige Variant).
Another Option, if you can use Races of the Dragon, is to use the Dracoinc Racial Class.
Start out without LA and gradually advance to Draconic Creature(LA +1, buy off after taking 3 classlevels) and than Half-Dragon(must take all 2 adjustments at once, 6 classlevels later buy off the second LA, 3 classlevels more to get rid off the last LA).
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Sounds like your first level should be barbarian for pounce, though a skillful class isn't out of the question, for the x4.
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Pounce is good, but the DM's only semi-comfortable with that ability of the lion totem barbarian, so it's been delayed to level 3. Might still be worth doing, but I think I might rather import Lion's Charge to the bard spell list if possible.
I'm looking through Races of the Dragon but so far am not finding the Draconic creature racial class, nor a Draconic -> Half-Dragon transition class. Page numbers? Nevermind, I found it.
Duskblade into Prestige Bard won't work, several normal bards are already around, though none are allies.
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How about adding in Feral?
Normally I'd love to, but no can do. Feral only applies to humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and half-dragon would change my type to dragon, DM's a stickler for that kind of thing. Bringing LA up to +4 doesn't help with the missing HD problem, either.
You can have both templates. You apply feral first changing your type to monsterous humanoid, then you apply the half-dragon template. Savage species even goes over this process for multiple templates, it is legal. But yes, it does still leave you with the HD problem. Also if you take the LA all at once, it will be a long time before you can buy an LA off.
Ivory Knights idea is great if you can get away with it. Very similar is the Savage progressions from wizards web enhancements.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp
It gives you a break down per level for LA, and you don't have to take all of the LA at once. So like Ivory Knight's Idea, you could go:
Class 2/ Dragon LA 1/Class 1 (buy off) costing you 3,000xp if I am not mistaken and putting you at Class 3
Next take another class 2/ LA 1/ Class 1 and buy off again for 7,000xp.
In the end you should end up with 35,000xp with 8 class levels. You are only 1,000xp away from 9th, and it nets you one extra level starting. The next two levels you would take Dragon LA 1/Class 1, ending your buy off progression.
If you really want Dragonfire inspiration, you will have to figure out how far you want to take before you start. Same with bardic knack. For a gish, I would stick to 14 levels of bard and 6 of something else to get a BAB of at least 16 by level 20. If you want 6th level bard slots go 16 bard/ 4 Full BAB. This is all assuming Prestige bard is out.
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Pounce is good, but the DM's only semi-comfortable with that ability of the lion totem barbarian, so it's been delayed to level 3.
What does he have you trade off then?
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Pounce is good, but the DM's only semi-comfortable with that ability of the lion totem barbarian, so it's been delayed to level 3.
What does he have you trade off then?
Same as usual, you just make the sacrifice and sit there with an empty hand for a while and then get your reward later. It kind of sucks, but his original position was no pounce for fast movement at all, so it could be worse.
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For a slight loss of progression, you could select legacy champion.
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We don't use WoL, though after skimming that PrC I can see I might need to try pushing for its inclusion after I've had a chance to familiarize myself with the book.
Found the draconic -> half dragon "class". If I understand this correctly, working with 50,000 XP (enough for a normal character to be halfway between 10th and 11th levels), I could start with 47,000 XP, character level 8th and ECL 10th, with the full half-dragon template. I'd be down 3,000 XP (ECL 4 - 1 * 1,000) for buying off the draconic creature LA at character level 3. If we assume I took the other two levels of the progression immediately (becoming level 3/ECL 5), I could later buy off 1 of the remaining LA +2 at character level 9th for 10,000 XP (ECL 11 - 1 * 1,000) to hit ECL 10, and buy off the last LA +1 at character level 12th for 12,000 XP (ECL 13 - 1 * 1,000). Is this correct?
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We don't use WoL, though after skimming that PrC I can see I might need to try pushing for its inclusion after I've had a chance to familiarize myself with the book.
Found the draconic -> half dragon "class". If I understand this correctly, working with 50,000 XP (enough for a normal character to be halfway between 10th and 11th levels), I could start with 47,000 XP, character level 8th and ECL 10th, with the full half-dragon template. I'd be down 3,000 XP (ECL 4 - 1 * 1,000) for buying off the draconic creature LA at character level 3. If we assume I took the other two levels of the progression immediately (becoming level 3/ECL 5), I could later buy off 1 of the remaining LA +2 at character level 9th for 10,000 XP (ECL 11 - 1 * 1,000) to hit ECL 10, and buy off the last LA +1 at character level 12th for 12,000 XP (ECL 13 - 1 * 1,000). Is this correct?
That looks right if you have to start over on the HD chart when you apply the new template. IE, the first 3 class levels down count after the first buy off and new +2 LA added, only once you scored another 6 HD can you buy off the new LA.
If you can apply one LA at a time with the web enchancement from my post, you could start with 8 class levels, 1 LA, and 2 levels bought off. I assumed minimal xp for level 10, but the extra 5,000 for being half way would put you at 40,000xp. Then you could at the very next level buy off the last 1 LA for 9,000xp.
Granted, either process might be viewed as invalid since a typical human, half dragon would need to be ECL 12 to just buy off the first level adjustment. But as long as the DM is okay with your RAW work arounds, you should be in good shape.
Edit: Also you don't need the Legacy champion to pull off progression through PrC. Assuming you take one level of the web based class, the Uncanny trickster (complete scoundrel) can advance the class 2 levels (which finishes it) at the cost of 3 uncanny levels. In the end though, I would not take this option with level buy off available. You are sacrificing potential for earlier power, unless you like the bonus skill tricks and things the PrC gives as well. It might be useful if you want to take on additional LA from other templates and use this in combination to pick off the half-dragon LA. It does effectively grant LA for its class progression and a HD at the same time to buy off other LA. I have used this trick alot for players in my group that wanted to be a half-dragon.
Although Legacy Champion works great for advancing Warhulk, if you make an item that casts the spell from serpent kingdoms that removes a creatures ex/su ability (in this instance, No time to Think from the warhulk class).
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Well, the DM's kind of headshy about web enhancement stuff. I can ask, of course, but I think he's more likely to go for something in a book we already use than something on a web page, even if it is on a wotc web page. Either way I'm glad I've at least got the math right, there.
I'd like to cut down my setup time. Two rounds just moving and singing or casting spells is already kind of a pain, more is really pushing it. If possible, I'd like to do it without losing spells nor inspire courage progression. I know War Chanter 5 has Combine Songs, but is there a better way?
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Well, the DM's kind of headshy about web enhancement stuff. I can ask, of course, but I think he's more likely to go for something in a book we already use than something on a web page, even if it is on a wotc web page. Either way I'm glad I've at least got the math right, there.
I'd like to cut down my setup time. Two rounds just moving and singing or casting spells is already kind of a pain, more is really pushing it. If possible, I'd like to do it without losing spells nor inspire courage progression. I know War Chanter 5 has Combine Songs, but is there a better way?
War Chanter only stacks for uses per day as I read it, not the effectiveness of songs. Still not a bad full BAB class since you can stack in Inspire greatness which effectively grants +1 attack, -1 damage, +HP, -1 verse will saves, +1 fortitude saves comparied to one more from bump to inspire courage. Downside is you won't get 6th level spell access, but that would be lost anyway with alot of 16 Bard/ 4 BAB class progressions (short of Abjuration champion or similar class). Also if you stop your progression at 16 for bard, you would only have spell slots at 6th from a high cha, so you might only be missing out on a few level 6 spells.
The Warrior Skald from Races of Faerun might work if you have book access. It requires Power attack and cleave to enter the class and has Full BAB. It gets bardic music, but which stacks for uses per day and gives you access to all bardic music based on your perform skill, not bardic level. It is a little shady though on how effective the song is and if you add the levels together.
Another choice, but a little strange is the Fochlucan lyrist from Complete adventurer. It grants full spell casting, bardic music, bardic knowledge, and full BAB. The down side is the requirements, Level 1 divine casting (speak language Druidic), evasion, and bardic knowledge.
Rogue 2/ Druid 1/Bard 7/Fochlucan lyrist 10
Grants Druid casting 11, bard casting 17, BAB 16, 17 levels of bardic music and bardic knowledge.
The shadow creature template from lords of madness gets evasion and other stuff for a +2 LA, but hard even dropping teh rogue levels with the other LA (maybe withthe web enhancement and alot of buy offs at 6,9,12,15,18). A ring of evasion might fly also, but not a sure fire bet in alot of games. You might be able to trick your way up to a bardic music of 20 effectively with bloodlines, but more HP loss and requires multiple PrC's that stack with bardic music.
Bard 2/ Bloodlines 1/Bard 2/Bloodlines 1/Druid 1/Bard 2/Virtuoso 1/ Fochlucan lyrist 10
6 levels of bardic music from the bard.
Virtuoso's level stacks with bardic music, it is 1+2 from bloodlines=3
Fochulcan lyrist levels stacks with bardic music, it is 10+2=12
Total progression of 21. Bardic knowledge (or knack) is just a level based bonus so you would end up with a 20 (bloodlines adding to bard, but no gain from the Virtuoso). BAB tanks to a 14.
Last option is focused on spellcasting and the Illumian race from Races of Destiny.
Bard 9/Cleric 1/ Sublime Chord 5/Bard 5
Use the illumain sigal that lets you spend turn undead attempts to cover the cost of metamagic feats to apply persistent spell for free to Arcane Spellsurge (Races of the the Dragon). This makes your standard action spells cast as swift action spells. Sing and cast in the same round. Best for action economy, but you loss out on BAB with a 13.
If you worship a deity of travel, you can also sac a domain to pick up travel devotion. Activate it as a free action, it lets you move as a free action once a round for up to 1 minute. Additional uses can be granted with extra turn undead attempts. Other domains might grant you things you are also interested in. If you are good, words of creation from the book of exalted deeds can double your bardic music bonuses if you take some damage.
That is all I can think of.
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I'm going to suggest a level of Crusader. One, the d12 HD. Two, access to the low-level healing maneuvers is nice for negating damage on yourself, especially if combined with the Stone Power feat from the same book. Three, Song of the White Raven makes it so you don't lose any inspiration advancement, AND you can start bardic music as a swift action instead of a standard.
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Crusader is only d10, but the delayed damage pool(only 5 at Crusader 1) may help too. Also remember, you need to be in a White Raven Stance, to use Bardic Music as a swift action.
I'd take a second level, late in your career, to get a highlevel Stance & Maneuver.
Halfdragon Class Progression: The XP-cost = (current ECL -1)*1.000XP
I used LA 1/Class 3(buyoff 3.000 XP)/ LA +2/ Class +6(buyoff 10.000XP, down to LA 1)/ Class +3(buyoff 12.000 XP),
because my DM ruled, that you have to take the Classlevels after gaining the LA for them to count towards buyoff.
Still a bargain, considering you never even had LA 3 at any one time :smirk
Fochlucan Lyrist does have a little shortcut: Shape Soulmeld(Impulse Boots) + Open Least Chakra(Feet) requires 2 feats from Magic of Incarnum, but will get you Uncanny Dodge & Evasion.
Can be a good choice, if you can get in this way: 2 feats + 1 level for Full BaB & 6th Level Druidspells(the Bite of the WereX-line is something you won't get from Bard).
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Oh man, if we could actually use Tome of X stuff, that Song of the White Raven would be perfect for firing off both versions of inspire courage in one round, or both versions and two buff spells in two rounds. Pity we can't use those books :( but I'll definitely keep that in mind for barding with other DMs.
I wouldn't mind losing out on spells so much if I could still come up with powerful buffs to self and allies through music, and be sturdy enough not to worry about shattering when something lives through my full attack. I'm not looking to add a significant extra spell progression, particularly not Wis-based. I can live without bardic knack + jack of all trades, if getting that is going to make it much more difficult to project one or two potent aura-like effects and then move in and tear things apart.
My DM would probably rule favorably on Warrior Skald progressing (and stacking with) bardic music strength if I show it to him, as that seems like it was the intent and he has often expressed desire to run something like a skald himself.
I wonder if I might not be better off going in a simpler direction, though. I could start off as something like a bard 6/fighter 2, grab blackguard 2 for my next 2 levels, then bard +10. I'd get some bigger HD when I need 'em, Cha to all saves, I could wear some decent armor until my spells provide a stronger defense, and just use Still Spell for stuff like inspirational boost until I take off the armor, then retrain it out later (DM lets us retrain, but only once per character). Alternately, lose blackguard to ease the feat strain, and start off like bard 4/fighter 2/hexblade 2. Grab Battle Caster with a fighter bonus feat, get a heavy armor made of mithral and just keep it. (I know, light and mithral-constructed medium tends to be better, but I can't afford having a lot of Dex.) Finish up with bard +12.
Startup time is still annoyingly sluggish, but that's somewhat less of a concern if I'm not as likely to go splat before I actually do anything.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Hmmm... the site I was looking at says Battle Caster is a fighter bonus feat, but Complete Arcane does not. Is there a more recent version that did, or is this just an error?
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If you want CHA to saves, why no Paladin 2?
Devout Performer(Comp. Adv.) can help with this combo, also interesting(if you're in Faerun) might be From Smite to Song & Initiate of Milil(the later requires at least Paladin 4!).
Don't know about Battle Caster, but you could just grab it with a regular feat slot. Mithral Full Plate is nice for Melee Bards, but only provides 3-4 more AC compared to the light armor you can use without blowing a feat on it.
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No paladin 2 because I'm sick and tired of playing good, and the DM doesn't allow the variant alignment paladins. Having an Intimidate check that gives out minor heart attacks is nice, but sometimes you just want to rip a guy's head off for being stubborn, you know?
I looked into Devoted Performer, it helps with bardic music per day but not with bardic music strength, unfortunately.
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heres what i came up with:
using the rules for LA buyoff in UA ... it seems that +3 LA can be bought off at 9, 15, 18 lvls... so for an ECL 10 build it would be :
1/2 Dragon 2/ xxxxxx 8
Human(-2 Str,+2 Cha) + 1/2 Dragon(Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2) .... net result =
+6 Str,+2 Con,+2 Int,+4 Cha
1/2 Dragon Human
Bard 8
Attributes(28pt buy)
20 Str(14 +6 racial)
14 Dex(14)
16 Con(14 +2 racial)
14 Int(12 +2 racial)
12 Wis(12)
20 Cha(14 +4 racial +2 lvl)
Feats:
Versatile Spellcaster(human Bonus)
1st lvl: Knowledge Devotion
3rd lvl: Dragonfire Inspiration
6th lvl: Draconic Aura(Vigor)
this should give nice combat abilities + good boosts to allies .... great skills, good saves ... a versatile character ... you will have a +6 BAB ... thus you will have decent Combat capability
:D
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Didn't read the whole thread, but have you looked at the +1 LA Draconic Template from Races of the Dragon. Very similar flavor to half dragon and better stats/LA ratio.
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Troll-blooded feat from dragon 319 gets you regeneration 1/fire and acid (toughness as a prerequisite). That lets you survive melee.
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heres what i came up with:
using the rules for LA buyoff in UA ... it seems that +3 LA can be bought off at 9, 15, 18 lvls... so for an ECL 10 build it would be :
1/2 Dragon 2/ xxxxxx 8
Human(-2 Str,+2 Cha) + 1/2 Dragon(Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2) .... net result =
+6 Str,+2 Con,+2 Int,+4 Cha
1/2 Dragon Human
Bard 8
Attributes(28pt buy)
20 Str(14 +6 racial)
14 Dex(14)
16 Con(14 +2 racial)
14 Int(12 +2 racial)
12 Wis(12)
20 Cha(14 +4 racial +2 lvl)
Feats:
Versatile Spellcaster(human Bonus)
1st lvl: Knowledge Devotion
3rd lvl: Dragonfire Inspiration
6th lvl: Draconic Aura(Vigor)
this should give nice combat abilities + good boosts to allies .... great skills, good saves ... a versatile character ... you will have a +6 BAB ... thus you will have decent Combat capability
:D
Can't quite do this one. That's actually a 32 point buy, not a 28. Humans get +1/-1, not +2/-2 (though I will be trying again to talk the DM into changing the odd-numbered racial adjustments so they benefit everyone and not just those with rolled scores that come out weird). And he's only got 8d6+24 hp... that's about two or three landed incoming attacks for us, maybe five if we're really lucky and fighting weak monsters for a change. EDIT: I should probably add that in our current party configuration I hold the record for most damage taken in a single round without actually dying, at 109. I probably would've been killed but the ranger/barbarian had just been healed and the dragon spared one attack to knock her back into the negatives so she wouldn't start attacking again. This setup also doesn't have a way to make iterative attacks while leaving all of its natural weapons free to apply more dragonfire inspiration damage.
Knowledge Devotion does seem like it could be helpful for accuracy issues though, and I had forgotten about it. I will probably wind up working it in sooner or later.
Didn't read the whole thread, but have you looked at the +1 LA Draconic Template from Races of the Dragon. Very similar flavor to half dragon and better stats/LA ratio.
I've considered it. The problem is, Dragonfire Inspiration only allows changing the applied energy type if you have Draconic Heritage (another feat I can't afford, and a required dip into sorcerer which isn't helping my fragility issues any, nor can it be bought off like LA can) or are a half-dragon. Draconic creatures need not apply. Same reason I'm aiming for Sonic DI instead of Force DI -- DI forbids Force and I'm already facing enough troubles without getting the DM pissed at me for pulling a fast one.
Troll-blooded feat from dragon 319 gets you regeneration 1/fire and acid (toughness as a prerequisite). That lets you survive melee.
This probably isn't going to fly, we can't use much dragon mag material (probably none, but there's always the odd chance he'll let one or two specific things in if they go along with what he's already doing). It's certainly worth a check if it's real regeneration instead of fast healing, though.
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It's real regeneration. Doesn't do full limbs (have to hold them up to the stump), but still pretty cool.,
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Well yeah, the main thing with real regeneration imo is you're not actually losing hp, you're just taking nonlethal damage. You might get knocked out of the fight but you don't die, lose a level, and suck up party resources to come back. Regrowing parts is just a fringe benefit that isn't needed very often anyway.
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Can't quite do this one. That's actually a 32 point buy, not a 28. Humans get +1/-1, not +2/-2 (though I will be trying again to talk the DM into changing the odd-numbered racial adjustments so they benefit everyone and not just those with rolled scores that come out weird). And he's only got 8d6+24 hp... that's about two or three landed incoming attacks for us, maybe five if we're really lucky and fighting weak monsters for a change. This setup also doesn't have a way to make iterative attacks while leaving all of its natural weapons free to apply more dragonfire inspiration damage.
Knowledge Devotion does seem like it could be helpful for accuracy issues though, and I had forgotten about it. I will probably wind up working it in sooner or later.
sorry about the Attribute error ... it should be:
Human(-1 Str,+1 Cha) + 1/2 Dragon(Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2) .... net result =
+7 Str,+2 Con,+2 Int,+3 Cha
1/2 Dragon Human
Bard 8
Attributes(28pt buy)
17 Str(10 +7 racial)
14 Dex(14)
16 Con(14 +2 racial)
14 Int(12 +2 racial)
12 Wis(12)
20 Cha(14 +4 racial +2 lvl)
also .... you should not have to worry too much about Hp ... since you really should not be a Frontline Fighter .... although you will be decent enough at Melee combat ... the main thing is you should not get hit too much .... since you will have +4 Natural Armor plus you should also have some good Armor and a Stat boosting Item or two ... if you were equipped like this:
Items: (49000gp)
4000gp +2 Cloak of Cha
4000gp +2 Amulet of Con
4000gp +2 Gloves of Dex
2000gp +1 Ring of Protection
2500gp Ring of Sustenance
2100gp +1 Mithral Chain Shirt
2500gp....Boots of the Winterlands
2000gp...Handy Haversack....very useful for his entire career
900gp ...Hand of the Mage..gives Mage Hand At Will
1205gp +1 Darkwood Buckler
750gp Healing Belt
3000gp Rod of Extend Spell
3360gp Misc Alchemical items and Animals[spoiler]
these items are designed so that you can make lots of Ranged Touch Attacks
200gp......2x War Ponies(trained)...one to be riden, one for carrying supplies...both are combat ready and can fight
150gp......6x Guard Dogs(trained).....trained for various things
800gp Acid flasks(80)
800gp Alchemists fire(40)
150gp Antitoxin(3)
110gp Everburning torch
200gp Holywater(8)
100gp Smoke sticks(5)
600gp Thunderstones(20)
250gp Tanglefoot Bags(5)[/spoiler]
16685gp left to get a weapon or whatever
AC 25 (base 10 +4 Natural Armor + 3 Dex +5 Armor +2 Shield +1 Deflection)
although it is not the best ... it should keep you out of a lot trouble ... and it is easy to boost it even higher .... without sacrificing versatility .... remember you still have Spells
:D
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That is a nice setup, and I may well use it if it turns out I can't really manage this as a mainly melee bard. Not sure if I'll use it given what I'm considering now, but please enlighten me: where is the material Darkwood from?
I'd still like to beat things up personally if it's reasonably doable. Though these don't apply in the short term, I've had some ideas regarding improving my defenses and cutting down my setup time in the long run.
Seeker of the Song can get +2 insight to AC while singing and Combine Songs with a mere 2-level dip. It requires a total waste of a feat with Skill Focus, but obviates the need for Lingering Song, so that's a wash. Swiftblade wants Dodge and Mobility, which are harder to come up with, but my real bard level would wind up too low to rely on bardic knack, so I've no need to ever bother with Jack of All Trades. I'd get Haste as a free action by 3rd level, and concealment (and eventually miss chance on incoming targetted spells) every time I cast Haste, among other benefits.
What if I were to de-emphasize my Cha and use spells only for buffs and utility rather than effects that allow saving throws, freeing up more points for physical scores, and did something like this?
[spoiler]Attributes (28 points)
Str 24 (14 +8 racial +2 levels)
Dex 14 (14)
Con 16 (14 +2 racial)
Int 12 (10 +2 racial)
Wis 10 (10)
Cha 16 (14 +2 racial)
Bard 8
Feats:
Versatile Spellcaster (human bonus)
1st Dodge -- Expeditious Dodge if I can get it, but I'm not counting on it
3rd Mobility
6th Dragonfire Inspiration
Song of the Heart (bard bonus, lose suggestion)
I'd mainly sing and let the others in the party handle the bulk of the up-close work, but I could use a longspear to take my iterative attacks from a relatively safe distance, and if something gets too close for comfort, either back off with tumble (and mobility if I boner that up) or drop the spear and use my claw-claw-bite routine on it.[/spoiler]
My inspire courage or dragonfire inspiration boost should be at +5 here (+2 bard 8, +1 badge of valor, +1 song of the heart, +1 inspirational boost).
From there I would progress into bard 8/swiftblade 2/seeker of the song 2/swiftblade +1/bard +1/swiftblade +6.
BAB +16, 5th-level bard spells, CL 19.
[spoiler]Feats:
9th Skill Focus (perform)
Spring Attack (swiftblade bonus)
12th Melodic Casting
15th Practiced Spellcaster (bard)
18th Knowledge Devotion
Bounding Assault (swiftblade bonus)
I won't get 6th-level spell slots anyway, so Innervated Speed is useless to me. Taking 1 more bard level instead of finishing swiftblade gets my bard music level up to 14 with the vest of legends, just enough to improve inspire courage.
Swiftblade 1 would let me start darting in and out of danger with Spring Attack, and bring my attack bonus, AC, and Ref saves up a little bit. By bard 8/swiftblade 3/seeker of the song 2 I'd be able to set up Dragonfire Inspiration, Inspire Courage, and Haste in a single round, and get an extra 30% miss chance and +2 AC out of the combo. At that point I'd probably switch to a one-handed weapon (possibly a sword and mini-board combo as the DM is okay with mithral bucklers) so I could take my iterative-plus-haste attacks plus a claw and a bite when I want to full attack instead of springing in and out. Over time, the more swiftblade boosts my defenses and my spell availability, the more aggressive I can afford to get, and I don't have to worry so much about being squishy because I can always fall back on playing coy with spring attack/bounding assault if necessary.[/spoiler]
My inspire courage and dragonfire inspiration boost should max out at +6 (maybe +7) by level 14. I'll have added a vest of legends to bring my effective bard level for music up to 14, and I'm going to try to get away with putting a masterwork natural horn on some sort of wearable harness (wired to a mithral breastplate maybe?) for another +1 there.
What do you think? Usable, or dead end?
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Darkwood is in the DMG, next to Mithril and Adamantine.
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Darkwood is in the DMG, next to Mithril and Adamantine.
Wow, yet another core thing I've never seen used and forgot existed. I thought it was some fruity eberron elf thing.
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Darkwood is in the DMG, next to Mithril and Adamantine.
Wow, yet another core thing I've never seen used and forgot existed. I thought it was some fruity eberron elf thing.
That would be Soarwood.
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Ardent with Prac Manifester, can ignore up to 4 LAs or hd levels.
Ur-Priest also come to mind.