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The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Dictum Mortuum March 14, 2010, 06:05:47 PM

: Alignment optimization
: Dictum Mortuum March 14, 2010, 06:05:47 PM
So i'm thinking of starting a handbook-like thread on alignments. But first, i'm re-posting this, to make sure i'm not missing anything and for people to give me new ideas.

There are three types of alignments:


Strangely this is a difficult question to answer. It depends on the class and campaign style. Some thoughts to take into consideration:


Stuff that need to be addressed:


Of course it doesn't end there. The list is almost endless.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Dictum Mortuum March 14, 2010, 06:08:43 PM
Evil Spells
[spoiler]Aberrate
Absorb Mind (F)
Absorb Strength (F)
Abyssal Army
Abyssal Might (M)
Alert Bebilith (M)
Animate Dead (M)
Animate Dead Familiar (XP)
Animate Dread Warrior (XP)
Animate Legion (M)
Apocalypse from the Sky (M)
Ashstar
Avascular Mass
Avasculate
Awaken Undead (XP)
Barghest's Feast (M)
Bedevil (M)
Befoul
Black Bag
Black Lightning
Black Sand
Blackfire
Blackwater Taint
Blackwater Tentacle
Blasphemy
Bodak Birth (F)
Bodak's Glare (F)
Boneblade
Boneblast
Call Dretch Horde
Call Lemure Horde
Call Nightmare
Charnel Fire
Cheat (F)
Circle of Nausea
Claws of the Bebilith
Claws of the Savage
Cloud of the Achaierai
Clutch of Orcus
Consume Likeness (F)
Consumptive Field
Greater Consumptive Field
Contagion
Mass Contagion
Create Greater Undead (M)
Create Undead (M)
Cruel Disappointment
Crushing Fist of Spite (M)
Curse of the Putrid Husk
Curse Water (M)
Damning Darkness
Dance of Ruin
Dark Tide
Vile Darkbolt
Death by Thorns
Death Dragon
Death Grimace
Death Knell
Death Pact (M)
Deathwatch
Defile Snow and Ice
Demon Wings
Demoncall
Demonflesh
Demonhide
Demonic Blood Infusion (M)
Desecrate (M)
Desecrate Battlefield (M)
Despoil (M)
Devil's Ego
Devil's Eye
Devil's Tail
Devil's Tongue
Dirge of Discord
Dispel Good
Distort Summons
Distort Weapon
Dolor
Doom of the Seas (XP)
Dread Word
Vile Drown
Ectoplasmic Enhancement
Energy Ebb
Eternity of Torture
Evil Eye
Evil Glare
Evil Weather (M) (XP)
Eye of the Beholder
Eyebite
Eyes of the King
Eyes of the Zombie
Fangs of the Vampire King
Field of Ghouls
Fiendform
Fiendish Clarity
Flensing
Flesh Armor (F)
Flesh Ripper
Forbidden Speech
General of Undeath
Ghoul Gauntlet
Glimpse of Truth
Graz'zt's Long Grasp
Grim Revenge
Gutwrench
Heartache
Heartclutch
Hell's Power (M)
Hellfire
Hellfire Storm
Hellish Horde
Hunters of Hades (M)
Identify Transgressor
Imprison Soul (M) (F)
Incorporeal Enhancement
Infernal Threnody
Infernal Transformation
Lesser Infernal Transformation
Infernal Wound
Kiss of the Vampire (M)
Lahm's Finger Darts
Love's Pain
Magic Circle against Good
Mantle of Evil
Masochism
Mindrape
Morality Undone
Mystic Lash
Necrotic Bloat (F)
Necrotic Burst (F)
Necrotic Cyst (F)
Necrotic Domination (F)
Necrotic Empowerment (F)
Necrotic Eruption (F)
Necrotic Scrying (F)
Necrotic Termination (F) (XP)
Necrotic Tumor (F)
Night's Caress
Nightmare
Nybor's Psychic Imprint (F)
Pack of Ghouls
Pestilence
Plague Carrier
Plague of Nightmares (F)
Plague of Undead (M)
Power Leech
Pox
Protection from Good
Psychic Poison (M)
Rapture of Rupture
Ravage
Reality Blind
Red Fester
Rejuvenative Corpse
Remorseless Charm (M)
Revive Undead (M)
Rotting Curse of Urfestra
Sacrificial Skill
Sadism
Sap Strength
Seething Eyebane
Serpents of Theggeron
Shriveling
Skeletal Guard (M)
Slash Tongue
Slow Consumption
Song of Festering Death
Sorrow
Soul Charge (F)
Soul Shackles
Spores of the Vrock (M)
Spread of Savagery
Steal Life
Stunning Screech
Summon Bearded Devil
Summon Blood Elemental
Summon Undead I
Summon Undead II
Summon Undead III
Summon Undead IV
Summon Undead V
Sword of Darkness (M)
Symbol of Pain (M)
Thousand Needles
Tongue of Baalzebul
Tongue of Fiends
Tongue Serpents
Tongue Tendrils
Torment
Touch of Juiblex
Touch of the Pharaoh
Undead Mask
Undeath after Death (M)
Unhallow (M)
Unheavened
Unholy Aura (F)
Unholy Beast
Unholy Blight
Unholy Storm (M)
Unliving Weapon
Utterdark
Veil of Undeath (M)
Vile Death (M) (XP)
Vile Lance
Visage of The Deity
Greater Visage of the Deity
Lesser Visage of the Deity
Wall of Evil
Wall of Eyes
Wave of Pain
Were-Doom
Whirlwind of Teeth
Wither Limb
Wrack
Wretched Blight[/spoiler]
Good Spells
[spoiler]
Affliction
Angelskin
Armageddon
Awaken Sin
Axiomatic Creature (M) (XP)
Ayailla's Radiant Burst
Bastion of Good
Bless Water (M)
Blessing Of Bahamut
Blinding Beauty
Blinding Glory
Blood of the Martyr
Bolt of Glory
Brilliant Emanation
Burial Blessing (M) (XP)
Call Faithful Servants
Call Mount
Celestial Aspect
Celestial Blood (M)
Celestial Brilliance
Channel Celestial
Greater Channel Celestial
Consecrate (M)
Consecrate Battlefield (M)
Constricting Chains (F)
Create Deathless (M)
Create Greater Deathless (M)
Crown of Brilliance (M)
Crown of Flame
Cry of Ysgard
Dancing Web
Diamond Spray (M)
Dispel Evil
Eladrin Form
Emerald Burst (M)
Exalted Fury
Faerinaal's Hymn
Fierce Pride of the Beastlands
Glorious Raiment
Grace
Grave Strike
Hallow (M)
Hammer of Righteousness
Heaven's Trumpet (F)
Heavenly Host
Heavenly Lightning
Heavenly Lightning Storm
Holy Aura (F)
Holy Smite
Holy Storm (M)
Holy Sword
Holy Transformation
Lesser Holy Transformation
Holy Word
Hymn of Praise
Lantern Light
Last Judgment
Lastai's Caress
Leonal's Roar
Light of Lunia
Light of Mercuria
Light of Venya
Magic Circle against Evil
Mantle of Good
Opalescent Glare
Perfect Summons
Phieran's Resolve
Phoenix Fire (F)
Protection from Evil
Quickshift
Radiant Fog
Rain of Black Tulips
Rain of Embers
Rain of Roses
Refreshment
Righteous Aura
Righteous Glare
Righteous Smite
Sacred Haven
Sanctify the Wicked (F)
Shield of the Archons
Sicken Evil
Stars of Arvandor
Stars Of Mystra
Storm of Shards
Summon Bralani Eladrin
Summon Elysian Thrush
Summon Hound Archon
Sword of Conscience
Tomb of Light (M)
Tongue of Angels
Twilight Luck
Undeath's Eternal Foe
Unearthly Beauty
Valiant Steed
Vengeance Halo
Visage of The Deity
Greater Visage of the Deity
Lesser Visage of the Deity
Wages of Sin
Wall of Good
Yoke of Mercy[/spoiler]
Lawful Spells
[spoiler]
Axiomatic Storm (M)
Axiomatic Water (M)
Call Kolyarut (XP)
Call Marut (XP)
Call Zelekhut (XP)
Checkmate's Light
Dictum
Dispel Chaos
Heavenly Host
Hellish Horde
Lawful Sword
Loyal Vassal
Magic Circle against Chaos
Mantle of Law
Mechanus Mind
Order's Wrath
Protection from Chaos
Shield of Law (F)
Summon Bearded Devil
Summon Hound Archon
Sun Scepter
Wall of Law
[/spoiler]
Chaotic Spells
[spoiler]
Abyssal Army
Anarchic Storm (M)
Anarchic Water (M)
Chaos Hammer
Cloak of Chaos (F)
Demonic Blood Infusion (M)
Dispel Law
Fierce Pride of the Beastlands
Magic Circle against Law
Mantle of Chaos
Maw of Chaos
Protection from Law
Summon Bralani Eladrin
Wall of Chaos
Word of Chaos[/spoiler]
: Re: Alignment optimization
: bearsarebrown March 14, 2010, 06:14:31 PM
Many of the 'Evil' spells... aren't. Deathwatch is a great example. IMO, all flavor should be mutable, and for that reason, I don't see why in a roleplaying situation, casters shouldn't cast opposing alignments. I mean, the spell itself isn't evil, only how it's used.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Hijax March 14, 2010, 06:14:56 PM
Dictum Mortuum: providing you with all the handbooks you dont need, since 2008.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Growin March 14, 2010, 06:24:24 PM
Dictum Mortuum: providing you with all the handbooks you dont need, since 2008.

For example:
The lightning warrior doesn't need a familiar's handbook.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Hijax March 14, 2010, 06:26:14 PM
Dictum Mortuum: providing you with all the handbooks you dont need, since 2008.

For example:
The lightning warrior doesn't need a familiar's handbook.
:lmao
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Dictum Mortuum March 14, 2010, 06:29:48 PM
Dictum Mortuum: providing you with all the handbooks you dont need, since 2008.

^-^
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Hijax March 14, 2010, 06:35:46 PM
Dictum Mortuum: providing you with all the handbooks you dont need, since 2008.

^-^

i should had said "do or do not", but at this level of tiredness, my body begins to obey primal instincts rather than my brain.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Dictum Mortuum March 14, 2010, 06:56:41 PM
Dictum Mortuum: providing you with all the handbooks you dont need, since 2008.

^-^

i should had said "do or do not", but at this level of tiredness, my body begins to obey primal instincts rather than my brain.

I can't say i get you :p (i'm probably tired, too)
: Re: Alignment optimization
: The_Mad_Linguist March 14, 2010, 08:23:10 PM
Evil characters can get free elder evil feats.  If they worship that snake of original clerical magic, they can even cherrypick domains.

Just saying.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Hijax March 15, 2010, 05:32:34 AM
Evil characters can get free elder evil feats.  If they worship that snake of original clerical magic, they can even cherrypick domains.

Just saying.

this is awesome. i'm officially changing my favorite alignment from CN to CE.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: The_Mad_Linguist March 15, 2010, 05:35:44 AM
I'm not even sure why he's considered evil, to be honest.

Basically his entire backstory is:

"Hey dudes, the gods are lying to you.  They say they grant spells, but actually they do jack shit."
"OMGWTFBBQ YOU LIAR..." *snicker-snack*
 "Oh... wait, he was telling the truth.  Screw you guys, I'm joining up with team Not-Lying-To-The-Entire-Cosmos"
"HERESY!"



Well, actually that *snicker-snack* should have been the first line, since he apparently saved that secret for his dying words out of a sense of misplaced drama, but whatever.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: cru March 15, 2010, 07:55:57 AM
another thing that alignment impacts is what your summon spells can summon
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Flay Crimsonwind March 15, 2010, 09:26:38 AM
[stuff] out of a sense of misplaced drama, but whatever.
Seems to also be a byproduct of alignment...
: Re: Alignment optimization
: PhaedrusXY March 15, 2010, 02:28:08 PM
another thing that alignment impacts is what your summon spells can summon
Only if you're a cleric. Wizards can summon any damn thing they want.

Edit: so can true neutral clerics of true neutral deities. :D
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Havok4 March 15, 2010, 02:54:09 PM
another thing that alignment impacts is what your summon spells can summon
Only if you're a cleric. Wizards can summon any damn thing they want.

And if they take want to be amazing at summoning they should take malconvoker which requires them to be non-evil.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Agita March 15, 2010, 03:24:19 PM
Well, actually that *snicker-snack* should have been the first line, since he apparently saved that secret for his dying words out of a sense of misplaced drama, but whatever.
I'd argue that a sense of drama is never misplaced if you don't die when you're killed.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Littha March 15, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
Well, actually that *snicker-snack* should have been the first line, since he apparently saved that secret for his dying words out of a sense of misplaced drama, but whatever.
I'd argue that a sense of drama is never misplaced if you don't die when you're killed.

That would make the average game of D&D so full of drama...

Also why are his clerics too cheap to cough up for a true resurrection?
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Agita March 15, 2010, 03:38:03 PM
Well, actually that *snicker-snack* should have been the first line, since he apparently saved that secret for his dying words out of a sense of misplaced drama, but whatever.
I'd argue that a sense of drama is never misplaced if you don't die when you're killed.

That would make the average game of D&D so full of drama...

Also why are his clerics too cheap to cough up for a true resurrection?
Plot. Duh. :P

Mechanically speaking, he's probably been "dead" for longer than ten years/CL.
Alternatively, it could be argued that resurrection magic won't work since he's not really dead.
: Re: Alignment optimization
: The_Mad_Linguist March 15, 2010, 03:39:38 PM
He's basically half-vestige by this point. 
: Re: Alignment optimization
: Hijax March 15, 2010, 04:23:55 PM
He's basically half-vestige by this point. 

resurrecting someone is pretty hard when half of them physically doesn't exist.