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The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => Topic started by: Surreal on January 03, 2010, 10:20:27 PM

Title: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Surreal on January 03, 2010, 10:20:27 PM
This was originally compiled by Griff over at 339. I'll do my best to keep it updated.


o Any

Aereni Focus - Player's Guide to Eberron (p.20)
Skill knowledge - UA (for use with UA Variant skill system) *check with your DM*



o Appraise

Apprentice (craftsman) - DMG II (also know: architecture and engineering)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)


o Balance

Martial Study (Iron heart/stone dragon) – tome of battle


o Bluff

Apprentice (criminal) - DMG II (also gather info)
Greensinger initiate – Ebberon campaign setting (requires spontaneous summon natures ally) (adds others)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)


o Climb

Far horizons [initiate] – Races of destiny (cleric only) (adds others also)


o Concentration

Apprentice (martial artist) - DMG II (also tumble)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Martial Study (diamond mind) – tome of battle


o Craft

o Decipher Script

o Diplomacy

Apprentice (entertainer) - DMG II (also perform)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Martial Study (white raven) – tome of battle


o Disable Device

Initiate of Gond – Players guide to Faerun (cleric only) (also adds Open lock)


o Disguise

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
City Slicker – Races of destiny, (adds others also)
Silverbrow Human (race) - Dragon Magic


o Escape Artist

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)


o Forgery

City Slicker – Races of destiny, (adds others also)


o Gather Information

Apprentice (criminal) - DMG II (also bluff)
Ecclesiarch – Ebberon campaign setting (adds Knowledge(local) also)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
City Slicker – Races of destiny, (adds others also)


o Handle Animal

o Heal

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Glimmerskin Halfling (race) - Dragon Magic


o Hide

Greensinger initiate – Ebberon campaign setting (requires spontaneous summon natures ally) (adds others)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Martial Study (shadow hand) – tome of battle
Forestlord Elves/Half-Elves (race) - Dragon Magic
Nightbringer Initiate (feat) - Magic of Eberron


o Intimidate

Apprentice (soldier) - DMG II (also know: local)
Martial Study (devoted sprit) – tome of battle
Dread Tyranny [initiate] – Races of destiny (cleric only)


o Jump

Far horizons [initiate] – Races of destiny (cleric only) (adds others also)
Martial Study (Tiger claw) – tome of battle


o Knowledge

All: Education – Ebberon Campaign setting
All: Draconic Knowledge, (requires Draconic heritage) - Dragon Magic
Any: Apprentice (philosopher) - DMG II (also sense motive)
Any: Apprentice (spellcaster) - DMG II (also (ab)use magic device)
Any: Knowlege Devotion (feat) - Complete Champion
Any: Primordial Giant (template) - Secrets of Xen'drik
Arcana: Arcane insight [initiate] –races of destiny (cleric only)
Architecture and engineering - Apprentice (craftsman) - DMG II (also apraise)
Dungeoneering: Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Local: Apprentice (soldier) - DMG II (also intimidate)
Local: Ecclesiarch – Ebberon campaign setting (adds Gather info also)
Local: City Slicker – Races of destiny, (adds others also)
Local: Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Nature: Apprentice (woodsman) - DMG II (also survival)
Planes: Keeper of forbidden lore [abyssal heritor] - Feindish codex 1 (also spellcraft)
Planes: Gatekeeper initiate – Ebberon campaign setting (requires spontaneous summon natures ally)


o Listen

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Whispered secrets [initiate] – Races of destiny (cleric only) (adds others also)


o Move Silently

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Nightbringer Initiate (feat) - Magic of Eberron
Viletooth Lizardfolk (race) - Dragon Magic


o Open Lock

Initiate of Gond – Players guide to Faerun (cleric only) (also adds Disable dev)


o Perform

Apprentice (entertainer) - DMG II (also diplomacy)
Greensinger initiate – Ebberon campaign setting (requires spontaneous summon natures ally) (adds others)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)


o Profession


o Ride


o Search

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)


o Sense Motive

Apprentice (philosopher) - DMG II (also a knowledge)
Martial Study (setting sun) – tome of battle


o Sleight Of Hand


o Speak Language

Gift of tongues – Races of Faerun (elf only)


o Spellcraft

Keeper of forbidden lore [abyssal heritor] - Feindish codex 1 (also know: planes)


o Spot

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Whispered secrets [initiate] – Races of destiny (cleric only) (adds others also)


o Survival

Nature: Apprentice (woodsman) - DMG II (also know: nature)
Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)


o Swim

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Far horizons [initiate] – Races of destiny (cleric only) (adds others also)


o Tumble

Apprentice (martial artist) - DMG II (also concentration)
Martial Study (desert wind) – tome of battle


o Use Magic Device

Apprentice (spellcaster) - DMG II (also a knowledge)

o Use Rope




Cleric domains which grant new class skills:


Appraise

Pact - Spell compendium (also Intimidate, sense motive)
Wealth - Spell compendium.


Bluff

Baator [planar] - Spell compendium
Dragon - Spell compendium (also Intimidate)
Envy - Spell compendium
Trickery - PHB (also disguise and hide)


Disable Device

Kobold - here (also search and trapfinding ability)


Disguise

Trickery - PHB (also bluff and hide)


Hide

Trickery - PHB (also bluff and Disguise)


Intimidate

Abyss [planar] - Spell compendium
Dragon - Spell compendium (also Bluff)
Herald - BOED
Pact - Spell compendium (also appraise, sense motive)


Knowledge

All: knowledge - PHB
Nature: Animal - PHB
Nature: Plant - PHB


Search

Kobold - here (also Disable device and trapfinding ability)


Sense Motive

Celestia [planar] - Spell compendium
Pact - Spell compendium (also appraise, intimidate)


Survival

Arborea [planar] - Spell compendium
Travel - PHB
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: KellKheraptis on January 03, 2010, 10:24:56 PM
Wasn't there a feat called Versatile or Versatile Mind that added any two?  And also, the 3.0 version of Cosmopolitan added two.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: bearsarebrown on January 03, 2010, 10:27:10 PM
I'm fairly sure there is a OA feat that adds any one. There isn't.

Also, why isn't this in the Handbook section?
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Shadowhunter on January 03, 2010, 10:49:39 PM
I've seen Cosmopolitan in some FR book, but if it's 3.0 or 3.5 I'm not sure.
IIRC though, it was one skill, not two.

So perhaps the 3.0 version was 2 and the 3.5 is 1.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: juton on January 03, 2010, 11:04:25 PM
Versatile is a feat in the Rokugan campaign setting book (p.55) that grants 2 class skills. I think it's 3.0 though.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Negative Zero on January 04, 2010, 12:48:34 AM
I'm pretty sure Rokugan Campaign Setting is third-party.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: cru on January 04, 2010, 05:27:00 AM
Also, why isn't this in the Handbook section?
+1

Also, Uldra race (Frostburn) has Knowledge (Nature) and Speak Language as a class skills.
Also, if you could eliminate the extra spaces between lines, it would look much better!
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: xeno121 on January 04, 2010, 11:00:29 AM
Factotum gains all skills as class skills with a single level, combine with able learner for more fun.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Garryl on January 04, 2010, 12:48:53 PM
Illumian (Races of Destiny) always has Speak Language as a class skill.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: PhaedrusXY on January 04, 2010, 12:56:06 PM
The Skilled City-Dweller alternate class feature from the Cityscape web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) lets you trade Ride for Tumble, and Handle Animal for Gather Information, regardless of class.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: cru on January 07, 2010, 07:19:17 AM
Edgewalker Sentinel feat (Secrets of Sarlona) grants Knowledge (planes) as class skill for rangers and scouts
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: whity on January 08, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
The 1st Level of Human Paragaon (Unearthed Arcana) also adds any class skill permanently to your list, if you desperatly need one. UMD for example.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: cru on January 15, 2010, 06:30:22 AM
Consider adding Guerrilla Scout and Guerrilla Warrior (Heroes of Battle) as special mention.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: xeno121 on January 21, 2010, 04:05:27 PM
Human Paragon can select 10 skills at a time and can make one of them a class skills for all classes.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: NiteCyper on January 21, 2010, 04:12:35 PM
Shadow Shaper-ACF, UA, Illusionist. Hide as class skill.

Generic NPC classes (e.g. generic Spellcaster) chooses their class skills. Remember, having a class skill for at least one of your classes raises the max ranks you can put into that to character level + 3, forever. [Wed 2011-01-26T04:29:27-0500] Better than Factotum because the generic classes grant a bonus feat.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: telehax on November 06, 2010, 01:19:15 PM
Skill Prodigy in Player's Guide to Kingdom of Kalamar. Gain Int Mod x Class Skills.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Ramaloke on November 06, 2010, 07:35:17 PM
I think Jack of All Trades deserves honorable mention here. Its probably one of my favorite feats.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: cru on January 25, 2011, 04:27:27 AM
Feats
from smite to song (CoV 29) - add perform to paladin class skills
initiate of arvoreen (CoV 30) - add hide/move silently to halfling cleric/paladin skills
broken one monk sublevel (CoV 36) - heal and survival

Substitution levels
crescent moon knight paladin (CoV 37) - knowledge local impiltur
darksong knight fighter (CoV 38) - perform (dance)
dukar wizard (CoV 38) - swim
fangshield ranger (CoV 41) - diplomacy
holy judge paladin (CoV 44) - knowledge (the planes)
lion legionnaire (CoV 44) - knowledge (nature)
mystic fire knight paladin (CoV 45) - knowledge (arcana), spellcraft
noble heart paladin (CoV 46) - survival
red falcon paladin (CoV 48) - knowledge (history)
ruby rose knight paladin (CoV 49) - bluff and perform (some)
shadow sword ranger (CoV 49) - knowledge (history)
shooting star ranger (CoV 50) - knowledge (arcana), spellcraft
wary swordknight paladin (CoV 51) - listen and spot

CoV Web Enhancements - substitution levels
golden hands rogue - survival
harmonious knight paladin - perform
shadow cloak knight paladin - hide and move silently
high one warrior wizard - diplomacy, handle animal, heal, ride
zhentarim soldier - bluff, diplomacy
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Prime32 on January 25, 2011, 09:08:32 AM
Would it be worth mentioning that Pathfinder has a number of traits which grant class skills?
*dodges thrown tomatoes*

And shouldn't this be in Handbooks?
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Garryl on January 25, 2011, 04:14:54 PM
A couple of obscure Monk ACF-like options: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041213a)

A Flayed Hand monk adds Intimidate to her list of class skills. However, while her devotional marks are visible, she suffers a -2 circumstance penalty on Diplomacy or Gather Information checks.

Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (history) are class skills for shaarat'khesh monks. These take the place of Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (religion).
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: awaken DM golem on January 25, 2011, 07:37:41 PM
Diplomance (T.o.-ish) a gawd to give you it's Possess Mortal SDA.
"Skills - The mortal can use its own skills and the deity’s skills. If the mortal and the deity have the same skill, use the skill of whichever has more ranks in the skill. Use the mortal’s effective ability scores to determine skill modifiers."


Warforged + Fusion + Intelligent Item , accesses:

Item has 10 ranks in Intimidate     +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Decipher Script    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Knowledge (choose category)    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Search    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Spot    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Listen    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Spellcraft    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Sense Motive    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Bluff    +5,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Diplomacy

Non Warforged can't keep the ranks around.
PAO keeps them on Warforged indefinitely or 2 PAOs for Nons.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: darrow on January 26, 2011, 02:57:54 AM
Many cleric domains grant additional class skills as their granted power. I suppose you could use the planar touchstone feat and the catalogues of enlightenment location to get these granted powers. I'm wondering what would happen if you did that, assigned skill points using the granted power for a level or two, and then switched your feat to another touchstone?

The closest analogue I can think of off the top of my head is the classes that let you swap out levels of one class for another (blackguard, athar defiant, shadowcaster), all of which I think let you keep skills ranks you already have even though you become a character who couldn't have purchased them normally.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: The_Mad_Linguist on January 26, 2011, 05:52:09 AM
I believe general consensus in similar situations is that that sort of thing works, but is frowned upon during character generation.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: NiteCyper on January 26, 2011, 06:18:50 AM
Flexible Mind [Anarchic] (http://img243.imageshack.us/f/d326p80chaosfeats.png/)

touchstone CoE, assign skill points, switch feat

swap classes
I believe general consensus in similar situations is that that sort of thing works, but is frowned upon during character generation.
It's as practical as Inspire Greatness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireGreatness) and the Ghost template class. I'm only poking sleep-deprived fun I think the process should be established, like the Embrace & Shun the Dark Chaos trick, rather than frowned upon.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: The_Mad_Linguist on January 26, 2011, 07:44:24 AM
I'm, personally speaking, fine with it for a chameleon, since on a scale from one to ten, I'd rate the dumbness of chameleons not getting all skills as class skills at around an eight.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: InnaBinder on February 04, 2011, 10:29:02 PM
Nightbringer Initiate is in Faiths of Eberron, not Magic of Eberron as listed.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on February 05, 2011, 04:31:43 AM
Education is also a Dragonlance campaign feat. I'm pretty sure there is a PrC or two in that setting that help this, but I don't remember which one(s).

And shouldn't this be in Handbooks?
No because its a compilation, not a 'chose these options for this type of character' deal. Where it does belong is my new subfurom. If you were a real mod you could help make my subforum happen.  :psyduck
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: The_Mad_Linguist on February 05, 2011, 08:51:10 AM
Education is also a Dragonlance campaign feat. I'm pretty sure there is a PrC or two in that setting that help this, but I don't remember which one(s).

And shouldn't this be in Handbooks?
No because its a compilation, not a 'chose these options for this type of character' deal. Where it does belong is my new subfurom. If you were a real mod you could help make my subforum happen.  :psyduck
Handbooks incorporate more than "choose these options for this kind of character".  Bunko's, for example, is a handbook.  Surreal's index is a handbook.  This is a handbook.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Akalsaris on February 05, 2011, 06:06:36 PM
Nightbringer Initiate is in Faiths of Eberron, not Magic of Eberron as listed.

You know, I noticed this as well last night. 

Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on February 06, 2011, 05:37:12 AM
Bunko's, for example, is a handbook.  Surreal's index is a handbook.  This is a handbook.
I disagree
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: The_Mad_Linguist on February 06, 2011, 05:40:57 AM
Bunko's, for example, is a handbook.  Surreal's index is a handbook.  This is a handbook.
I disagree

You're (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) disagreeing (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876.0) with (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10575.0) a (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) lot (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10745.0) of  (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.0)precedent (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0).
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: awaken DM golem on February 06, 2011, 05:06:19 PM
Autohypnosis ... feat in Dragon #349 adds it, with a +2 and some weird restrictions.

AFB, I forget the name of it.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Triskavanski on February 06, 2011, 05:36:39 PM
Cityscape's web enchancment has a couple of things to switch class skills around for being a cityfolk rather than a total all around adventurer.

Most notable is the ability to replace ride with tumble.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on February 06, 2011, 10:15:27 PM
You're (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) disagreeing (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876.0) with (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10575.0) a (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) lot (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10745.0) of  (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.0)precedent (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0).
The fear one is a handbook. Metamagic is a compilation. Wands is a handbook (but its not finished), as is the poison one. The size one isn't and neither are the planetouched and free guide threads.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Bozwevial on February 06, 2011, 10:50:53 PM
You're (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) disagreeing (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876.0) with (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10575.0) a (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0) lot (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10745.0) of  (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.0)precedent (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0).
The fear one is a handbook. Metamagic is a compilation. Wands is a handbook (but its not finished), as is the poison one. The size one isn't and neither are the planetouched and free guide threads.
The Planetouched Handbook quite clearly is a handbook, as it goes beyond simply vomiting a list of races onto the page.
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: Surreal on February 12, 2011, 05:51:20 AM
Hmm, looks like I have a bit of updating to do... right after the busy weekend...
Title: Re: alternative ways to get new class skills
Post by: awaken DM golem on February 12, 2011, 05:14:29 PM
Arcanaloth  :smirk says: "Quit your "real" life ; return to D&D."