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The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Khorus April 06, 2009, 04:42:52 PM

: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 06, 2009, 04:42:52 PM
EDITED TO REFLECT awesome advice =D

Lvl 4 Sword Sage Anthromorphic Monkey (small) Base speed 30 and dark vision 60ft
Stats after racial
Str 10 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 22 Cha 8

Feats (this is what I may need help with) Weapon Finese, Shadow Blade

Skill Tricks
Nimble Charge
Wall Jumper

Manuevers
Blistering Flourish, Burning Blade, Fire Riposte, Flashing Sun, Mighty Throw, Child of Shadow,  Clinging Shadow,Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, Stonefoot Stance, Sudden Leap

Core + Completes + ToB is what I have open to me.

I plan on taking giant killing stance next level for some amazingness. I have 25 armor,and using small short sword / small daggers and wearing a chain shirt.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: BowenSilverclaw April 06, 2009, 04:47:59 PM
For starters I'd advice you swap to a Shadow Hand weapon and pick up the Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade feats.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 06, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
I thought of that but I think 99% of the moves I wanna do are fire. and there isn't any overlap in weapons between the 2. Also only works while in shadow stance.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: BowenSilverclaw April 06, 2009, 04:53:49 PM
The Shadow Hand stances are pretty good, and have options for both defense and offense (and you already have some on your list from the looks of it). As for weapon choice, whether you pick a Falchion or a pair of Daggers, there really isn't any mechanical difference except that the latter will improve your damage output.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 06, 2009, 05:09:12 PM
I'm looking through the weapons for shadow, I'm small and want to 1d6 atleast and don't see any of them that I could wield and do that. If I'm missing what your saying I'm sorry.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: bkdubs123 April 06, 2009, 05:15:08 PM
You do realize that you can initiate a maneuver with any weapon, you don't have to use ones that are that discipline's favored weapons?

Bowen is saying that you'd deal more damage with a pair of daggers and with Shadow Blade than you would with a falchion. 2d4+str is less than 1d4+str+dex + 1d4+str+dex. That's all.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: BowenSilverclaw April 06, 2009, 05:18:13 PM
That's the basic idea, thanks bkdubs :)
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: woodenbandman April 06, 2009, 05:19:44 PM
Short Swords are 1d6 dual-wieldable. Ka-ching.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 06, 2009, 05:20:20 PM
But isn't there a penalty for TWF? And the falchion only does 1d6 cuz it is small, small daggers are d3. I'd be up for the daggers if I didn't take a penalty to use them.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 06, 2009, 05:20:48 PM
or 1d4 short swords I like that also.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: BowenSilverclaw April 06, 2009, 05:23:01 PM
Yeah, a -2 to hit. Still gets you a better attack roll with that Dexterity of yours than a normal weapon using Strength would get you though.

At level 1 for example you'd have BAB +0 plus Strength +0 = 0 for a falchion, but
BAB+0 plus Dexterity +4 -2 TWF = 2 for daggers or short swords, and a lot more damage.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 06, 2009, 05:23:42 PM
ok I've seen the error of my ways (there is alot of nice stances in shadow hand actually) and I think I'm going to use a short sword, The reason I went falchion is that I was using alot of strikes from desert wind.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: bkdubs123 April 06, 2009, 05:50:59 PM
Shadow Blade doesn't let you add your dex to atk rolls though. He'd need weapon finesse, which is just another feat.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: altpersona April 06, 2009, 05:54:45 PM
needs wis synergy... sacred fist or something..
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: BowenSilverclaw April 06, 2009, 05:57:23 PM
Shadow Blade doesn't let you add your dex to atk rolls though. He'd need weapon finesse, which is just another feat.
I mentioned Weapon Finesse ;)
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: skydragonknight April 06, 2009, 06:56:08 PM
needs wis synergy... sacred fist or something..

He can have Wis to damage with Desert Wind if he picks that for his Insightful Strike Discipline Focus. I'd personally recommended it actually for Flashing Sun. +6 damage for all his attacks(currently 3, including the one from the maneuver) that round. Throw in Burning Blade for even more fun; no Wis to damage there(not a strike), but still between the two, something WILL die.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 06, 2009, 07:09:17 PM
Needs polymorphing abilities of some kind.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Operation Shoestring April 07, 2009, 07:47:19 AM
Needs polymorphing abilities of some kind.

He's only level 4.  patience.

Though I think even wizards would have a hard time pulling off Sun Wu Kong's "turn my hair into a million clones of myself" trick.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: veekie April 07, 2009, 08:37:00 AM
Needs polymorphing abilities of some kind.

He's only level 4.  patience.

Though I think even wizards would have a hard time pulling off Sun Wu Kong's "turn my hair into a million clones of myself" trick.
Maybe a somehow chained Polymorph Any Object? Since it's a hair of him, I suppose that could be considered a 'similar object'.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 07, 2009, 10:13:17 AM
@Operation Shoestring

I been thinking of that. What about Wu Jen's Body out of Body? I'm not sure how it works just throwing it out there. For cloning the do as you will cudgel lvl 10 shaper As above so below. Have clones make spell craft check and turn rocks into duplicates of his staff.  Poly morph any object, baleful poly morph, and some level's of master transmorgafist? Then send him at dis? (Probably get owned since My powers of CO are still weaksauce)

Here is the rest of his abilities

Magical Powers

(1) 72 Transformation (72 Bian)
Allows him to transform himself into anything and anyone. Wu Kong uses it a lot, in all imaginable ways!

Variation 1
He can change all of his hairs into any object, person or animal. After use, he can change them back  to hairs.

Variation 2: Body Outside of Body Spell (Shen Wai Shen Fa)
He can amass an army in a few seconds by changing tufts of his hair into monkeys who are capable of fighting.

Variation 3
Allows him to transform one object into another object by chanting a spell and spitting blood on the object. In the case of changing an object into people, he completes the illusion by giving the fakes very simple abilities of speech and movement.

Variation 4
He can multiply his head and hands so that he has three heads and six arms. He also multiplies his magic rod so that he can use three rods at the same time. This is very useful in fighting off crowds of enemies.

Variation 5
He can transform a hair into a fake Wu Kong, freeing his true self to go elsewhere.

Variation 6
He can change his single magic rod into thousands of them which can be used for attacking multiple enemies.

?

(2) Somersault Cloud (Jin Dou Yun)
Allows him to fly over a distance of 108000 li in one somersault.
Note: Thanks to a reader (J.N.) who commented, we can now ascertain that one li roughly equals 0.5 km.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 07, 2009, 10:14:48 AM
(3) Body Freezing Spell
I can't believe I forgot this. =_= This is one of Wu Kong's most important powers, the body freezing spell. With a single syllable and a point of his finger, he can magically freeze anyone into immobility. I've never seen him use this on his enemies though, you know, the big bad demon bosses and all that, but he does use it frequently on the minor demons, so I surmise that this spell is only effective on people with weak magical powers.

(4) Water Avoidance Charm (Bi Shui Jue)
Allows him to survive in deep waters. A major drawback is that he can't fight while using this charm.

(5) Fire Avoidance Charm (Bi Huo Jue)
Allows him to go through fire unharmed. This charm doesn't have the Water Avoidance Charm's drawback.

(6) Wind
He can induce very strong winds and windstorms.

(7) Lock-Breaking Spell (Jie Suo Fa)
with a point from his finger or magic rod, all locks will open automatically.

(8) Summoning
He can summon the local gods of any place he goes, that is the Earth Gods, Mountain Gods, River Gods, and the like.

(9) Protective Circle
He can build a protective, albeit invisible wall by drawing a circle on the ground with his magic rod. Anyone staying inside the circle will be safe from harm as long as they don't go out. The one time he used it, San Zang was stupid enough to listen to Ba Jie and ignore Wu Kong's instructions and ended up being captured by a demon.

Forgot these ><
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 07, 2009, 03:34:16 PM
using small short sword / small daggers and wearing a chain shirt.
Ahem?
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Kuroimaken April 08, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
Body outside body would actually work best on a staff (or staves) of some kind. Just UMD it repeatedly and go to town.
(3) Body Freezing Spell
I can't believe I forgot this. =_= This is one of Wu Kong's most important powers, the body freezing spell. With a single syllable and a point of his finger, he can magically freeze anyone into immobility. I've never seen him use this on his enemies though, you know, the big bad demon bosses and all that, but he does use it frequently on the minor demons, so I surmise that this spell is only effective on people with weak magical powers.

Power Word Disable.
(4) Water Avoidance Charm (Bi Shui Jue)
Allows him to survive in deep waters. A major drawback is that he can't fight while using this charm.

Water Breathing.

(7) Lock-Breaking Spell (Jie Suo Fa)
with a point from his finger or magic rod, all locks will open automatically.

Knock.

(5) Fire Avoidance Charm (Bi Huo Jue)
Allows him to go through fire unharmed. This charm doesn't have the Water Avoidance Charm's drawback.

Energy Immunity (Fire).
(9) Protective Circle
He can build a protective, albeit invisible wall by drawing a circle on the ground with his magic rod. Anyone staying inside the circle will be safe from harm as long as they don't go out. The one time he used it, San Zang was stupid enough to listen to Ba Jie and ignore Wu Kong's instructions and ended up being captured by a demon.

Wall of Force?
(2) Somersault Cloud (Jin Dou Yun)
Allows him to fly over a distance of 108000 li in one somersault.
Note: Thanks to a reader (J.N.) who commented, we can now ascertain that one li roughly equals 0.5 km.

Overland Flight. There's also the far more specific spell, Cloud Chariot.
(1) 72 Transformation (72 Bian)
Allows him to transform himself into anything and anyone. Wu Kong uses it a lot, in all imaginable ways!

Alter Self for things closer to his own appearance; PaO for anything else.
Variation 2: Body Outside of Body Spell (Shen Wai Shen Fa)
He can amass an army in a few seconds by changing tufts of his hair into monkeys who are capable of fighting.

Many, many instances of Summon Monster X.
Variation 5
He can transform a hair into a fake Wu Kong, freeing his true self to go elsewhere.

Simulacrum?
Variation 3
Allows him to transform one object into another object by chanting a spell and spitting blood on the object. In the case of changing an object into people, he completes the illusion by giving the fakes very simple abilities of speech and movement.

Again, PaO. It even comes complete with the personality-engaging effect.

Variation 6
He can change his single magic rod into thousands of them which can be used for attacking multiple enemies.

This one's actually the toughest for me to remember how to do, actually...
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 08, 2009, 06:08:39 PM
Why are you using Pinyin for the names of the party members, but Japanese for his name?

This one's actually the toughest for me to remember how to do, actually...
Shillelagh x10?
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Kuroimaken April 08, 2009, 06:56:16 PM
Why are you using Pinyin for the names of the party members, but Japanese for his name?

This one's actually the toughest for me to remember how to do, actually...
Shillelagh x10?

Quantity, not quality.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 08, 2009, 06:57:34 PM
Oh, sorry. I thought it was about increasing the size of his weapon.

In that case, Cloud of Knives (Staves)? Mass Spiritual Weapon?
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Kuroimaken April 08, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
Oh, sorry. I thought it was about increasing the size of his weapon.

In that case, Cloud of Knives (Staves)? Mass Spiritual Weapon?

Well, he won't be able to use it more than once per turn unless he casts it repeatedly.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 08, 2009, 10:36:00 PM
Depends on how many free actions the DM allows at the beginning of your turn ;)
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Kuroimaken April 08, 2009, 10:51:12 PM
Depends on how many free actions the DM allows at the beginning of your turn ;)

The limit's on the spell itself. Cloud of Knives specifies he can only use one per round despite it being a free action to release them.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 08, 2009, 11:00:47 PM
Oh phooey.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: veekie April 09, 2009, 02:02:10 AM
Depends on how many free actions the DM allows at the beginning of your turn ;)

The limit's on the spell itself. Cloud of Knives specifies he can only use one per round despite it being a free action to release them.
If only you could get Whirling Blade to work on staffs, then you could Greater Mighty Whallop it and then use a Sculpted Whirling Blade. Anyone knows a way to add Slashing to a bludgeoning weapon without losing the bludgeoning?
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Kuroimaken April 09, 2009, 03:01:33 AM
Depends on how many free actions the DM allows at the beginning of your turn ;)

The limit's on the spell itself. Cloud of Knives specifies he can only use one per round despite it being a free action to release them.
If only you could get Whirling Blade to work on staffs, then you could Greater Mighty Whallop it and then use a Sculpted Whirling Blade. Anyone knows a way to add Slashing to a bludgeoning weapon without losing the bludgeoning?

Dude, just use a morphing sizing weapon already.  :D
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: veekie April 09, 2009, 04:00:09 AM
Point [/idiot]
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Khorus April 09, 2009, 04:34:44 PM
Sun Goku for now, Uber build will be Sun Ku Wong.
: Re: Sun Goku, Great Sword Sage equaling Heaven
: Solo April 09, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
Sun Wu Kong.

Get it right :P