Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Ubernoob August 02, 2008, 05:19:48 AM
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Level 12 32 PB
Frank & K's tome being used. Pretty much any sources allowed.
Notables: Infinite stacking nightsticks, DMM, polymorph, and dweomerkeeper already confirmed. Probably going cleric archer.
Current guess:
Aasimar Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 2/ Dweomerkeeper 7
Trade Knowledge for K. Devotion. Get spell domain. Feats:
1) Magical Training
3) Extend
6) Persist
9) DMM: Persist
12) Zen Archery
Doing this from memory. Any errors? Thinking of GMWing a pair of +1 Keen bows.
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Magic Domain, via Anyspell, would give you Persistant Guided Shot. That's all kinds of fun for a Cleric, who can use Holy Transformation to fly far above the battlefield and rain down shots with no penalty for range (use Chain of Eyes cast on the party scout to locate your targets).
Also, consider two levels of PrC Ranger. The feat requirements are annoying to be sure (flaws would help) but you do get Rapidshot as a bonus feat and more importantly you get Swift Haste on your list, which is persistable. Other nice persistant spells to use include Righteous Might (greater damage and range, and combines nicely with Strongarm Bracers), Divine Power (obvious), Divine Favor, and Lesser Mass Vigor/Vigorous Circle (so you can keep your party healed).
Also, get Bracers of Archery (combine with Strongarm Bracers) to use a Mighty Compound Greatbow)
JaronK
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One often overlooked spell (IME) that you can persist is Invisibility Purge. Fun for the whole family.
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Yeah... Flaws are out in Frank & K land. Prestige Ranger loses casting, so is right the fuck out. I *will* grab a wand of guided shot to put in a bow though.
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Dweomerkeeper requires an item creation feat...
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Dweomerkeeper requires an item creation feat...
Damn. Know of a good dip to free up a feat without dropping casting? I don't want to burn contemplative on planning domain yet.
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You can pick up the Rune Domain for Scribe Scroll... Or Planning Domain for Extend Spell which frees up 3rd level feat...
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You can pick up the Rune Domain for Scribe Scroll... Or Planning Domain for Extend Spell which frees up 3rd level feat...
IIRC, dweomerkeeper requires the magic domain. I *really* want the spell domain for draconic polymorph and wraithstrike. Is there any +CL PrC I can take before DwK that grants a useful domain or feat? As I said before, I know a contemplative dip is a hotfix, but I'd like not to do that yet.
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I'd honestly dip Contemplative. You'll delay DWK by a level, but you'll take your 4th mantle at 13th level, which is when you get 7th level spells. Really worth it, imo. While we're on the topic, since you lose a lot of knowledge as class skills by dropping Knowledge Domain, you may want to drop the Inquisition Domain instead. Just an option to think about.
Either way, you're delaying DWK by a level, so it won't hurt to take your 11th level as Cont and the 12th as DWK.
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Can you "drop" a prestige domain for a domain feat? If so, I'll just drop inquisition too to grab animal devotion.
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page 50ish of CC has non-core domains equivalents for devotion feats. Inquisition is equivalent to Knowledge for them...
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I don't think you need Wraithstrike anyway, it only affects melee attacks.
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Good call, Tshern. :facepalm
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page 50ish of CC has non-core domains equivalents for devotion feats. Inquisition is equivalent to Knowledge for them...
Aye. Since Tome rules just leave on the cap for cross class, but effectively give everyone able learner I'll drop knowledge because I like inquisition's power better.
Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 2/ Dweomerkeeper 5/ Contemplative 1/ Dweomerkeeper 1
Cleric Domains: Planning, Magic, trade knowledge for knowledge devotion, pick up inquisition from church inquisitor, grab spell from contemplative
Feats:
1) Magical Training (or whatever that FR feat is that lets me get into DwK without losing casting)
3) Craft Wonderous Item
6) Persist Spell
9) DMM: Persist
12) Zen Archery
Mantle of Spells:
1) Wraithstrike via spell domain and lesser anyspell (retraining shenanigans to make the domain order fit) as a second level spell.
2) Looking for a good spell 4th level or under. May just grab divine power.
3) See above, but 5th level and I don't have draconic polymorph yet
4) I don't actually get this many
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Delay Death, Revivify, and Close Wounds are good Mantle choices.
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If you want more domains to trade, don't forget Divine Disciple. Almost a joke to qualify for, a new domain at 4th, and IIRC, Outsider (native) at 5th.
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You lose a caster level with DivDisc, I think...?
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If all sources are open and we want domains, just go Sovereign Speaker. it costs one feat ("eschew DF" as I like to call it) and you get a domain each level :P
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If all sources are open and we want domains, just go Sovereign Speaker. it costs one feat ("eschew DF" as I like to call it) and you get a domain each level :P
I considered it. Then I looked at DwK again. I was looking for ways to free up feats and keep DwK. Thanks for all the help so far.
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I'm not sure of why you'd have Zen Archery when you could just Extend or Persist divine agility. Yes, you could do it with Zen + owl's insight, but that's not until Supernatural limited wish.
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I'm not sure of why you'd have Zen Archery when you could just Extend or Persist divine agility. Yes, you could do it with Zen + owl's insight, but that's not until Supernatural limited wish.
I'm not using CW zen archery. I'm using a much cooler version. Plus, my dex will be 30 max. My wis will be around 18+2+3+5+6= 34 at all times.
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Where is this cool Zen Archery you speak of and how may I bask in its apparent gloriousness? Imagine that with owl's insight?? Also, the feat you're thinking of is indeed Magical Training.
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Where is this cool Zen Archery you speak of and how may I bask in its apparent gloriousness? Imagine that with owl's insight?? Also, the feat you're thinking of is indeed Magical Training.
Races of war.
www.tgdmb.com
Click the humble opinion forum. Click the Tomes sticky. Click Races of War.
PSP don't link so well.
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Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
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As long as you're picking a deity, that's not a bad idea. It doesn't work without a deity. i.e. if you worship and idea.
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Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
That's a snazy idea, but I don't know of any deity that offers spell, magic, and planning (or just spell and magic).
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Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
That's a snazy idea, but I don't know of any deity that offers spell, magic, and planning (or just spell and magic).
I think Azuth from FR.
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Planning occurs in Red Knight and a couple of others. I don't know if Azuth is one of them.
On a related, but off-topic note: I know for certain that none of them offer Undeath and Planning...
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Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
That's a snazy idea, but I don't know of any deity that offers spell, magic, and planning (or just spell and magic).
I think Azuth from FR.
OK, he doesn't offer planning. Not sure how I'll free up a feat now... Still have to be a "pick my domains cleric" unless I can get magic, planning (I'll settle for anything that grants a feat I need here such as rune), and spell all under one deity. This is hard. Can we get 3 domains I need from one deity?
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Mystra has Magic, Spell and Rune.
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Mystra has Magic, Spell and Rune.
That is epic win. I just realized that initiate of mystra means I don't need the spell domain. Worships Mystra.
LN.
Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 2/ Dweomerkeeper 5/ Contemplative 1/ Dweomerkeeper +1
Cleric Domains: Rune, Magic, trade knowledge for knowledge devotion, pick up inquisition from church inquisitor, grab spell from contemplative.
Feats:
1) Magical Training (or whatever that FR feat is that lets me get into DwK without losing casting)
3) Extend Spell
6) Persist Spell
9) DMM: Persist
12) Zen Archery
Mantle of Spells:
1) Anyspell
2) Delay Death
3) Revify
4) I don't actually get this many
At level 15 I get another feat that I can spend on initiate of mystra.
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I am not sure if you can use Anyspell like that. IIRC, you cast Anyspell to sort of mimic a spell of up to x level (3, for the lesser one, IIRC). That means you don't actually get Wraithstrike as part of your spells known/castable and so you can't get it into your Mantle. You can get Anyspell into your Mantle, though it might be a bit high level.
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I am not sure if you can use Anyspell like that. IIRC, you cast Anyspell to sort of mimic a spell of up to x level (3, for the lesser one, IIRC). That means you don't actually get Wraithstrike as part of your spells known/castable and so you can't get it into your Mantle. You can get Anyspell into your Mantle, though it might be a bit high level.
Can I get a solid RAW analysis? It's not a big deal (one level higher once per day, not a huge thing), but I thought you did "cast" it qualifying for mantle of spells.
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Well, you cast Anyspell to get it. It is not something that is normally castable by you (i.e., not on your spell list/spells known). For example, a Sorcerer Dweomerkeeper cannot put in any spell in the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list unless he actually knows that spell (which sort of defeats the purpose, but that is another story). He technically *can* cast any spell in the list, he just have to know it. But because he doesn't know it, he can't put it into the Mantle.
With Clerics, this is different. They *can* cast any spell on their list, provided they prepared it. However, Wraithstrike is not on that list. Technically, they can't cast it. They can cast Anyspell to get it, but they can't cast it normally. I believe it would be a DM call, at the very least, on this one. I would personally not allow it. But that is just IMO.
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The way Anyspell works, RAW, is that you prepare it in your domain slot. Spend 15 minutes casting it. Then your domain slot is occupied by the spell you read from a scroll/spellbook. So you can use Mantle to get Anyspell and spontaneously cast it, but you won't be able to spontaneously cast Wraithstrike until you manage to get it on your cleric spell list somehow.
The way Anyspell works with Initiate of Mystra is that it changes "domain slot" into just a standard spell slot, so you aren't limited to just one Anyspell/day.
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The way Anyspell works, RAW, is that you prepare it in your domain slot. Spend 15 minutes casting it. Then your domain slot is occupied by the spell you read from a scroll/spellbook. So you can use Mantle to get Anyspell and spontaneously cast it, but you won't be able to spontaneously cast Wraithstrike until you manage to get it on your cleric spell list somehow.
The way Anyspell works with Initiate of Mystra is that it changes "domain slot" into just a standard spell slot, so you aren't limited to just one Anyspell/day.
Well, one slot higher. No big deal. Thanks for all the help guys.
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Also note that you need that spellbook with Wraithstrike on it for Anyspell to work (or a scroll).
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I don't know how much you're going to (ab)use Initiate of Mystra, but if you're going to be using AMFs as a shield, you may want to take extraordinary spell aim (CAdv). Odd little wording, but it would make you impervious to the AMF, so all your stuff works AND you can cast in it, but when people get close, they'll regret it.
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Also note that you need that spellbook with Wraithstrike on it for Anyspell to work (or a scroll).
Not an issue with the wish economy.
I don't know how much you're going to (ab)use Initiate of Mystra, but if you're going to be using AMFs as a shield, you may want to take extraordinary spell aim (CAdv). Odd little wording, but it would make you impervious to the AMF, so all your stuff works AND you can cast in it, but when people get close, they'll regret it.
A rod of sculpt spell should be enough should I choose to go that route.
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A rod of sculpt spell should be enough should I choose to go that route.
Depends on the DM. Extraordinary spell aim makes you immune to the AMF, sculpt spell just makes your square not affected by the AMF. XSA won't allow those arrows shot at you to regain all their magical properties when they hit, since they'll be in the AMF. Sculpt Spell will. Just food for thought.
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One more thing. Try the Heretic of the Faith feat, from the Powers of Ferune book.
It will let you add a domain to those granted by your god.
I used it add Shadow to Thoth(who is cooler than Mystra, and has Spell, Rune and Magic)
Your DM might want a good RP rational, but that is easy enough.
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The way Anyspell works with Initiate of Mystra is that it changes "domain slot" into just a standard spell slot, so you aren't limited to just one Anyspell/day.
Actually it allows you to prepare Anyspell in any slot, but doesn't change the requirement that the spell cast via Anyspell be prepared in a domain slot. It's a bit absurd, but it's the RAW.
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It's kind of a moot point, Omen, since by RAW, it places the spell in a domain slot, so even if you've already cast that spell for the day, you now have the spell from Anyspell in the domain slot.
Cast domain spell A
Cast anyspell (wraithstrike)
Cast wraithstrike from domain slot previously occupied by A...
It's odd, but that's RAW
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When Ive used it, I used Spontaneous Domain Casting, so I could cast the spell multiple times a day, but the way we figured it, only one spell could be prepared a a given time, since I had only one Domain slot of the proper level at a given time.
Not sure if that is good RAW, but it seems like good balance.
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@aftercrescent: yes, part of the problem is that the mechanics of preparing the arcane spell in the domain slot is IMO ill-defined. Is it usable only once ? Can you do it in any domain slot or just one in which Anyspell was ? etc...
ronyon presents an acceptable compromise that I've seen elsewhere too.
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I agree, and I like that houserule, too.
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Mystra has Magic, Spell and Rune.
That is epic win. I just realized that initiate of mystra means I don't need the spell domain. Worships Mystra.
LN.
Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 2/ Dweomerkeeper 5/ Contemplative 1/ Dweomerkeeper +1
Cleric Domains: Rune, Magic, trade knowledge for knowledge devotion, pick up inquisition from church inquisitor, grab spell from contemplative.
Feats:
1) Magical Training (or whatever that FR feat is that lets me get into DwK without losing casting)
3) Extend Spell
6) Persist Spell
9) DMM: Persist
12) Zen Archery
Mantle of Spells:
1) Anyspell
2) Delay Death
3) Revify
4) I don't actually get this many
At level 15 I get another feat that I can spend on initiate of mystra.
Oh, good Gods, I'm an idiot :wall
Uber, you can't do this with LN. Mystra is NG... You'll have to be LG.
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Uber, you can't do this with LN. Mystra is NG... You'll have to be LG.
Little late now.
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Heh. Well, wanna help me do mine then?
I am trying to build a character for the Skies of Arcadia campaign (Lands of Ice one), but I am running into issues:
First, I kind of like the whole idea of a bunch of Feral Kobolds running around on the ice, hunting and gathering and fighting for survival. I also like the idea of one of them being a Dragonwrought Kobold which is a bit of a weakling (compared to the rest of his clan, anyways). As such, he is always worshipped, yet looked down upon. Yeah, a bit oxymoronic, but basically, he is supposed to be some sort of higher being to a clan of feral barbarian types yet he is lacking in what they revere most: strength. You think that is silly, try being the tribe's shaman who has to explain this to his fellow tribesmen...
So, he channels his abilities into other ways of gaining respect: magic.
And that is where it falls apart.
I have decided to play this guy with a LA+2 template, mainly because I've never played anything with a template before.
The most basic, of course, would be a Feral Draconic Desert Kobold. Other options include Phrenic or Winged, either which would show his more unique status amongst his tribe.
Then I run into which class to play. Sorcerer is a must, since I am going to use Loredrake abuse. Feral would preclude Wizard, but either of the other two would allow it. At the moment, there is a choice of:
(Druid//Sorcerer) 3 / Cleric 1/MT 4/AH10/MT+2
or
(Cloistered Cleric//Sorcerer) 3 / Ruathar 3/Dweomerkeeper or Incantatrix 10/something x
or
(Wizard//Sorcerer) 1 / Beguiler 1/Master Specialist 3/Ultimate Magus 10/something x
*sighs* Choices, choices. And something is also nagging at me that the Tauric template is worth a look in this... :wall
Help?
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Needs new thread.