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The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : bhu July 10, 2011, 11:09:14 PM

: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu July 10, 2011, 11:09:14 PM
Sanity Rules

Beginning Sanity All PC's start with a beginning Sanity equal to their lowest mental stat times 5.  They take damage to this score from committing acts they find difficult to deal with, seeing things they were not meant to see, encountering things from other worlds, etc.

Losing Sanity Whenever a PC encounters a difficult event, he or she must make a Willpower Save (DC is given below) or take the appropriate amount of Sanity loss.  Once Sanity reaches 0, that character becomes incurably insane, and is retired from the game as they are effectively dead.  Their mind is a shattered wreck and they are incapable of doing much of anything but scream, and fight.  Should a PC roll a Natural 1 on a Willpower Save to avoid Sanity damage, or take more than 20% of their current Sanity all at once (or within 1 hour), they will develop a temporary form of insanity detailed below.  Temporary is a bit of a misnomer, as unless they are cured it won't really go away for 1d6 months, and cures are difficult to come by (though they can regain some Sanity by successfully defeating Things From Outside).  If during Temporary Insanity the PC loses up to 20% of their current Sanity again, their Insanity is permanent, rendering them incapable of functioning for (20 minus Wisdom Score weeks) and providing permanent symptoms thereafter.  Sanity Loss for Monsters is listed in their description.  For other events consult the chart below (Sanity damage listed before the slash is for a successful Save, damage listed after is for an unsuccessful Save):

Regaining Sanity

There are several ways to regain Sanity damage:

Defeating Things from Outside: If the PC's can defeat a monster they regain sanity equla to the maximum Sanity lost encountering one.  Choose the monster doing the worst Sanity damage from the encounter, and the players receive Sanity equal to the max they would lose for a failed Willpower Save encountering the beast (for example if a Ghoul does 0/1d6 damage, and the PC's defeat/capture/murder the Ghoul, they can regain 6 Sanity).  If the PC's can defeat a cult without encountering monsters they can regain 3 Sanity.  If the PC's can put down the summoning of a God they regain 20 Sanity.

By increasing their mental stats: If the stat their Sanity is based on increases, so does their Sanity.  For every permanent +1 to that mental stat they gain +5 Sanity. 

Maxing out ranks in a skill: The first time a PC maxes out ranks in a particular skill, they gain 2d6 Sanity due to increased confidence.  This can only be done once per skill.

Psychotherapy and Psychiatric medications are, alas, not available in this time period.

It is also possible to 'get used' to seeing monsters.  Once the player has lost the maximum possible Sanity done by a particular monster (i.e. if it does 1d6 Sanity damage on a failed Willpower Save, and you've taken a total of 6 Sanity in one or multiple encounters) you stop losing Sanity for a reasonable period of time.  Reasonable being defined by the DM.  One never gets used to seeing Gods or spellcasting (with the possible exception of Class Features).  Eventually after enough time has passed you will take mental damage again.

Event   San Loss

Surprised to find mutilated animal carcass or a human corpse/body part (DC 13) 0/1d2
See a river flow with blood or other unexplainable phenomena (DC 14) 0/1d3
Find a mutilated human corpse, Perform an objectionable act (varies by persons beliefs, but would be things like hiding among corpses or mutilating a corpse) (DC 15) 0/1d4
Awake in a coffin, witness a friend's violent death, see a minor monster (DC 16) 0/1d6
Meet someone you know to be dead (DC 17), seeing most monsters 0/1d8
Undergo severe torture, Perform a very objectionable act (Forced to commit rape/incest/necrophagy/necrophilia, murder a friend, etc), See corpse rise from the grave or another event you know to be impossible, see powerful monster (DC 20) 0/1d10
See a gigantic alien head fall from the sky or other completely unexplainable alien event or witness the end of a civilization (DC 22), see very powerful monster 2/2d10
Confront a deity (DC equals 10 plus Deities Hit Dice plus Charisma Modifier i.e. you aren't making it)  1d10/1d100


Insanity

If the PC goes temporarily or permanently insane they may suffer from one of the following disorders (Note: I do not believe in randomly rolling for insanities gained by an encounter.  Pick one appropriate to the situation.):


Acute Stress Disorder:

Amnesia:

Anorexia:

Anxiety Disorder:

Brief Psychotic Disorder:

Catatonic Scizophrenia:

Conversion Disorder:

Depression:

Megalomania:

Nightmare Disorder:

Obsessive-compulsive Disorder:

Pain Disorder:

Paranoia:

Phobia:

Pica:

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder:

Pyromania:

Extremely powerful entities such as Gods or the most powerful monsters can cause minor strokes or other physical damage which may result in the following insanities (It should be noted these are not common and usually only result as permanent as opposed to temporary insanities):

Autophagia:

Body Dysmorphic Disorder:

Psychopathy:

Psychosis:

Scizophrenia:

work in progress.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Daniel678 July 11, 2011, 12:03:14 AM
My suggestion is that once a player has made a few successful saves they are jaded enough that they don't need to save for a similar event. Depending on a player's class there should be events which they don't need to make a save for.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Tr011 July 11, 2011, 12:09:13 AM
Will saves are a problem for this. You say the obvious wizard who just saw his academy in his whole life with his high mental stats and a good will save has never problems with seeing dead corpses, while the 4-int-barbarian with low will-save looses sanity after crushing some goblins. I don't think that fits.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Tonymitsu July 11, 2011, 04:23:40 AM
This system also discounts other potential factors like character fluff or alignment in favor of general randomness.

For example:

-A 30th level character probably could comfortably stare down a middling deity in the same vein he would a dragon.  I'd think Divine Rank should play more of a factor than hit dice in this instance.

-Depending on how they are played, there's a strong chance that a chaotic neutral or chaotic evil character has more than a few screws loose already.  The idea that they would be horrifically unsettled by coming across a mutilated carcass when odds are even they were the cause of it comes off as laughable.

Then there's the matter of perspective.
Seeing a body rise from the grave and meeting someone you know to be dead is impossible to us, because we don't live in a world that contains wizards and clerics who make these things happen on a daily basis with a snap of their fingers (and 5k gp in diamond dust).  Unless such a thing is prohibitive in the specific campaign setting, some of these instances that would call for a roll simply don't make sense.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: veekie July 11, 2011, 12:28:06 PM
Hmm, perhaps base it off a Limit system?
Exalted has them.

Basically you have a track of 10.
Each time you experience something disturbing to you, you gain one point on the track. When the track is full, you experience a Limit Break, where you basically go nuts for a while(depending on the insanity, it can go on for an hour or a whole day), then recover. Permanent insanity is handled by permanent Limit, which would cause low level derangements, building up to greater madness.

Or you can borrow the overcharge mechanics from this system here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12434.msg421366#new)
The general idea here is to have several tracks, based on different sorts of mental stability.
You get to 'flare off' insanity by going mad for a while, or it can accumulate and cause permanent damage.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: archangel.arcanis July 11, 2011, 12:47:28 PM
Just as a point of note guys. This is for a d20 Modern game that is very Cthulhu based. So there are no wizards, as we would think of them, or goblins, normally at least. Plus I doubt there will be epic levels, "some characters die early, and the others lose"  ;)
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Thaosyr23 July 11, 2011, 12:49:34 PM
def. add in some jaded option then. People see so much stuff on tv that after awhile, violence just stops phasing them.

how about after seeing something will save (dc+5) to never be effected by it again. or something like that.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: veekie July 11, 2011, 01:14:52 PM
Just as a point of note guys. This is for a d20 Modern game that is very Cthulhu based. So there are no wizards, as we would think of them, or goblins, normally at least. Plus I doubt there will be epic levels, "some characters die early, and the others lose"  ;)
Could still add a jaded(or more appropriately, broken) option.

Basically, you just take a minor dysfunction(like a minor phobia, OCD etc), in exchange for immunity to a minor disturbance after being exposed to it and resisting successfully. You take a major(maniac depression, Multiple personality disorder, severe delusions) for greater disturbances.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: archangel.arcanis July 11, 2011, 01:21:23 PM
I agree some kind of jaded or "screwed up in the head but not enough to lose your character yet" mechanic would be good.

There are some Sanity rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) in the SRD, I believe BHU has already gone through them. As well as a similar system in the Wheel of Time RPG for male channelers who slowly go insane.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: weenog July 11, 2011, 01:24:57 PM
Modern?  Mutilated animal has got to go.  Anyone living anywhere both small animals and motor vehicles exist has seen enough smeared, crushed, twisted, dismembered and otherwise mangled animal carcasses that they really aren't going to be bothered by another piece of roadkill unless the sun's been beating on it for a few days and they have to stand downwind.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: archangel.arcanis July 11, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
Modern?  Mutilated animal has got to go.  Anyone living anywhere both small animals and motor vehicles exist has seen enough smeared, crushed, twisted, dismembered and otherwise mangled animal carcasses that they really aren't going to be bothered by another piece of roadkill unless the sun's been beating on it for a few days and they have to stand downwind.
Modern Game system but we are in 1776. So unless you are counting that retarded squirrel standing in front of a horse drawn buggy or the fact that people actually hunted & butchered much of their own food, it isn't quite the same.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: PhaedrusXY July 11, 2011, 01:38:39 PM
Modern?  Mutilated animal has got to go.  Anyone living anywhere both small animals and motor vehicles exist has seen enough smeared, crushed, twisted, dismembered and otherwise mangled animal carcasses that they really aren't going to be bothered by another piece of roadkill unless the sun's been beating on it for a few days and they have to stand downwind.
Modern Game system but we are in 1776. So unless you are counting that retarded squirrel standing in front of a horse drawn buggy or the fact that people actually hunted & butchered much of their own food, it isn't quite the same.
Even in the modern world, there are people who've routinely seen and participated in the killing and butchering of animals (I'm one of them... grew up on/near farms, etc). Seeing an animal mutilated means basically nothing, if you grew up thinking of animals as walking sacks of meat that you knew you were going to kill and eat eventually, anyway... (My grandfather and his generation had absolutely no empathy for animals at all... I could give examples, but I won't... because even I find them disturbing...)

Back in the 18th century, this would have been common for pretty much everyone, except the very rich. So I agree that it has no place on the chart. Finding a human corpse/body part would be an entirely different thing, however.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu July 13, 2011, 08:53:55 PM
My suggestion is that once a player has made a few successful saves they are jaded enough that they don't need to save for a similar event. Depending on a player's class there should be events which they don't need to make a save for.

will be adding this in
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu July 13, 2011, 08:54:21 PM
Will saves are a problem for this. You say the obvious wizard who just saw his academy in his whole life with his high mental stats and a good will save has never problems with seeing dead corpses, while the 4-int-barbarian with low will-save looses sanity after crushing some goblins. I don't think that fits.

the rules are for d20 modern

also a WIzard may very well have worked with corpses in the academy, and the barbarian may most likely be a superstitious tribesman afraid of the sight of the full moon because of his tribal religion.  It's meant for horror campaigns.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu July 13, 2011, 09:01:44 PM
This system also discounts other potential factors like character fluff or alignment in favor of general randomness.

For example:

-A 30th level character probably could comfortably stare down a middling deity in the same vein he would a dragon.  I'd think Divine Rank should play more of a factor than hit dice in this instance.

-Depending on how they are played, there's a strong chance that a chaotic neutral or chaotic evil character has more than a few screws loose already.  The idea that they would be horrifically unsettled by coming across a mutilated carcass when odds are even they were the cause of it comes off as laughable.

Then there's the matter of perspective.
Seeing a body rise from the grave and meeting someone you know to be dead is impossible to us, because we don't live in a world that contains wizards and clerics who make these things happen on a daily basis with a snap of their fingers (and 5k gp in diamond dust).  Unless such a thing is prohibitive in the specific campaign setting, some of these instances that would call for a roll simply don't make sense.

The campaign this is made for is a lot like Call of Cthulhu.  The odds of the PC's getting to 30th Level is small, and regardless of what level they reach, no human being will ever be powerful enough in this campaign to take on a God with an army at his side much less by himself.  Thats just there as an example.  If the PC's SERIOUSLY fuck up, they may see a deity from afar laying waste to civilization, but otherwise they are fluff and not meant to be encountered.  Even if a PC becomes a Wizard and gets a lot of power, the deity he's facing has been in existence since the beginning of time, or possibly even beforehand.  It has eons more experience at it than he does.  The campaign setting exists in the american revolutionary war in this case.  Up until this point monsters, magic, etc have not existed, but we opened the gates to win the Revolutionary war.  The stars finally became right, and now beings from other diemnsions are slipping in, and humans are discovering the true physics of the universe (i.e. magic).
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu July 13, 2011, 09:04:49 PM
Modern?  Mutilated animal has got to go.  Anyone living anywhere both small animals and motor vehicles exist has seen enough smeared, crushed, twisted, dismembered and otherwise mangled animal carcasses that they really aren't going to be bothered by another piece of roadkill unless the sun's been beating on it for a few days and they have to stand downwind.
Modern Game system but we are in 1776. So unless you are counting that retarded squirrel standing in front of a horse drawn buggy or the fact that people actually hunted & butchered much of their own food, it isn't quite the same.
Even in the modern world, there are people who've routinely seen and participated in the killing and butchering of animals (I'm one of them... grew up on/near farms, etc). Seeing an animal mutilated means basically nothing, if you grew up thinking of animals as walking sacks of meat that you knew you were going to kill and eat eventually, anyway... (My grandfather and his generation had absolutely no empathy for animals at all... I could give examples, but I won't... because even I find them disturbing...)

Back in the 18th century, this would have been common for pretty much everyone, except the very rich. So I agree that it has no place on the chart. Finding a human corpse/body part would be an entirely different thing, however.

In this case mutilated animal means disturbing stuff like genitalia removal, weird sacrifices, or mutilations you cant explain, like why a horse drained of blood is hanging by his neck from a cliffside a thousand feet in the air with no blood anywhere near the scene, and no signs of scuffle.  The list was based off CoC to get something up, I plan on revising it
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 21, 2011, 02:41:13 AM
Rules have been revised somewhat and I am beginning to add in specific insanities.  I tried to specifically go for ones caused by mental trauma so if anyone knows more about mental disorder than i can find via google please chime in.

Also if you can think of any disorders I should include.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 21, 2011, 02:44:10 AM
I agree some kind of jaded or "screwed up in the head but not enough to lose your character yet" mechanic would be good.

There are some Sanity rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) in the SRD, I believe BHU has already gone through them. As well as a similar system in the Wheel of Time RPG for male channelers who slowly go insane.

Actually I has not I must peruse this.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 21, 2011, 07:00:07 PM
I highly recommend the rules used in the Call of Cthulhu D20 book, they were basically the same as the other CoC's but i think it is a really good system. also, please tell me "lowest mental stat" doesn't include CHA, i can't imagine that affecting sanity.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: altpersona August 21, 2011, 07:20:47 PM
my 2c, group support should aid / hinder checks.

if every one else around you is ok w/ the weirdness then your more likely to be ok with it. and verse visa
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Bozwevial August 21, 2011, 07:25:17 PM
I highly recommend the rules used in the Call of Cthulhu D20 book, they were basically the same as the other CoC's but i think it is a really good system. also, please tell me "lowest mental stat" doesn't include CHA, i can't imagine that affecting sanity.
Charisma isn't beauty; it's force of personality, persuasiveness, and the like. Plenty of dragons, mind flayers, and the like have it in spades, and they aren't exactly paragons of attractiveness.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 21, 2011, 09:35:57 PM
I highly recommend the rules used in the Call of Cthulhu D20 book, they were basically the same as the other CoC's but i think it is a really good system. also, please tell me "lowest mental stat" doesn't include CHA, i can't imagine that affecting sanity.
Charisma isn't beauty; it's force of personality, persuasiveness, and the like. Plenty of dragons, mind flayers, and the like have it in spades, and they aren't exactly paragons of attractiveness.

I still cannot imagine it affecting sanity. I have horrible people skills, and I'm only slightly less sane than the next guy. and that's because of the Cthulhu Mythos.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Bozwevial August 21, 2011, 10:28:37 PM
I highly recommend the rules used in the Call of Cthulhu D20 book, they were basically the same as the other CoC's but i think it is a really good system. also, please tell me "lowest mental stat" doesn't include CHA, i can't imagine that affecting sanity.
Charisma isn't beauty; it's force of personality, persuasiveness, and the like. Plenty of dragons, mind flayers, and the like have it in spades, and they aren't exactly paragons of attractiveness.

I still cannot imagine it affecting sanity. I have horrible people skills, and I'm only slightly less sane than the next guy. and that's because of the Cthulhu Mythos.
That was somewhat misleading on my part. Think of it as self-confidence, self-image, the ego, and other such things, not people skills. Someone with a low Charisma who goes insane is probably suffering crippling self-doubt or has a skewed perception of him/herself (or, given the power of the entities in the Cthulhu mythos, an accurate perception of his or her place in the universe).

Low Wisdom can invite insanity in the form of hallucinations, a weak will succumbing to temptation or base desires, whatever. Picture a power-mad cultist trying to complete a ritual to gather enough power to get what he wants or to remove a threat, real or imagined. He's smart and has a firm grasp on himself, but he's vulnerable to the lure of easy rewards or to influence/control from external sources.

Someone with low Charisma is probably going to be more nihilistic in their insanity. Imagine a serial killer plagued by thoughts of how his wife killed their children before killing herself. His self-confidence is shattered, which leads to him taking it out in rather unacceptable methods. Alternatively, he caught a glimpse of something eldritch and massive and now realizes that no matter what he does, it won't matter in the end. He's cunning and has the will to carry his acts of depravity through, even though he's still insane and has a crippled psyche.

Low Intelligence is probably the hardest to portray, but it contributes to insanity by not permitting a mind to make sense of what it sees. Someone with a high intelligence naturally tries to analyze and understand events, which can act quite well as a defense against mental trauma. If you're not very bright, you're going to take the brunt of the fear simply because it's a mystery. Things are generally more horrific when they're not clear; the most effective horror films don't explain exactly what the monster is or what it can do. They often won't even show a clear picture of it, because that diminishes the fear. (See the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who as a good example of this--their first appearance is much more effective because we don't know what they can do, what they are, or even what they look like until the climax of the episode. The next time they appear, even the newcomers to the series are told of their abilities in advance, and then they get about five times more screentime. They become the horror equivalent of jumping out and going boo.)
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 21, 2011, 10:53:38 PM
I highly recommend the rules used in the Call of Cthulhu D20 book, they were basically the same as the other CoC's but i think it is a really good system. also, please tell me "lowest mental stat" doesn't include CHA, i can't imagine that affecting sanity.
Charisma isn't beauty; it's force of personality, persuasiveness, and the like. Plenty of dragons, mind flayers, and the like have it in spades, and they aren't exactly paragons of attractiveness.

I still cannot imagine it affecting sanity. I have horrible people skills, and I'm only slightly less sane than the next guy. and that's because of the Cthulhu Mythos.
That was somewhat misleading on my part. Think of it as self-confidence, self-image, the ego, and other such things, not people skills. Someone with a low Charisma who goes insane is probably suffering crippling self-doubt or has a skewed perception of him/herself (or, given the power of the entities in the Cthulhu mythos, an accurate perception of his or her place in the universe).

Low Wisdom can invite insanity in the form of hallucinations, a weak will succumbing to temptation or base desires, whatever. Picture a power-mad cultist trying to complete a ritual to gather enough power to get what he wants or to remove a threat, real or imagined. He's smart and has a firm grasp on himself, but he's vulnerable to the lure of easy rewards or to influence/control from external sources.

Someone with low Charisma is probably going to be more nihilistic in their insanity. Imagine a serial killer plagued by thoughts of how his wife killed their children before killing herself. His self-confidence is shattered, which leads to him taking it out in rather unacceptable methods. Alternatively, he caught a glimpse of something eldritch and massive and now realizes that no matter what he does, it won't matter in the end. He's cunning and has the will to carry his acts of depravity through, even though he's still insane and has a crippled psyche.

Low Intelligence is probably the hardest to portray, but it contributes to insanity by not permitting a mind to make sense of what it sees. Someone with a high intelligence naturally tries to analyze and understand events, which can act quite well as a defense against mental trauma. If you're not very bright, you're going to take the brunt of the fear simply because it's a mystery. Things are generally more horrific when they're not clear; the most effective horror films don't explain exactly what the monster is or what it can do. They often won't even show a clear picture of it, because that diminishes the fear. (See the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who as a good example of this--their first appearance is much more effective because we don't know what they can do, what they are, or even what they look like until the climax of the episode. The next time they appear, even the newcomers to the series are told of their abilities in advance, and then they get about five times more screentime. They become the horror equivalent of jumping out and going boo.)

makes sense. just two more (unrelated) things. 1:nice profile pic. 2: how do i put a quote in my sig? because that first paragraph makes me happy.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Bozwevial August 22, 2011, 02:23:52 AM
makes sense. just two more (unrelated) things. 1:nice profile pic. 2: how do i put a quote in my sig? because that first paragraph makes me happy.
Profile==>Forum Profile Information==>Signature. BBCode works in a signature, so quote blocks and hyperlinks are both viable options.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 22, 2011, 04:16:17 AM
I'm also fooling about with new rules for a spellcasting system:

Spellcasting Rules

The spells listed here are somewhere between regular d20 spells and skills.  Once a character has learned a spell, he begins with 1 rank in it, and can buy more ranks just like Skills (maximum ranks per level are the same as Skill Points, Skill Points are used to purchase ranks in spells).  He does not need to make a Skill Check to cast a spell (unless noted otherwise), the ranks merely determine how powerful the spells effects are as opposed to his Character Level like normal d20 spells.


Learning A Spell

There are several ways to learn a spell:

Deities: If one is willing to bargain with a Deity, the God can simply impart knowledge of the spell as a Swift Action, and the PC takes the Deific Bargain Flaw while gaining 2 ranks in the spell the Deity chooses to teach him (which will be detailed below).

Spellcasters: If the PC is not willing to bargain with a Deity he can choose to apprentice himself to a more experienced caster, human or not.  This is scarcely less dangerous than bargaining with a God, and you get whatever spells a madman or a supernatural entity wish to give you.  Learning time is half normal since you have someone to show you the way, but you must take the Apprentice Flaw. For both learning a spell via Apprenticeship or Book learning you must attempt to cast it to learn the spell (which can have possible problems if you fail, see Adverse Effects below)

Book Learning: You can hunt down and find scrolls, books, or other means of communication that describe casting a spell and attempt it yourself.  Can be dangerous in the case of some rituals, but you're a free man without ties (unless you screw up).

Spellcrafting: If all else fails, and you have the Spellcrafting ability gained from 10 Levels of Occultist you can attempt to make your own version of a spell from scratch.  Assuming you survive the research.

A typical spell will look like this:

Spell Name  
Costs: Sanity or other damage that needs to be taken to cast the spell.
Requirements: If the spell can only be cast in certain places, or times, or when certain events have taken place it will be listed here. 
Components: Necessary components, if any.
Learning Time: How long it takes to learn the spell by experimenting with instructions read from a book.  The time listed is the time you take trying to learn the spell, and the DC listed after is the Knowledge (Arcane) Check you must make to successfully learn it or start over from scratch.
Casting Time: How long it takes to cast.
Range: The range of the spell.
Target, Effect, or Area: What the spell effects, or the area it encompasses.
Duration: How long the spell lasts.
Saving Throw: Saving Throw necessary to shrug off or reduce the effects of the spell.
Adverse Effects: Side effects for long ritual spells that are cast incorrectly or interrupted (or for failing to learn the spell).


work in progress


: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 23, 2011, 01:52:22 AM
[spoiler](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XdP6Lp2ceqY/SxNOC8SmeOI/AAAAAAAAEJY/iXumL40V2xM/s1600/cthulhuette.jpg)[/spoiler]

no thoughts on the casting??
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: altpersona August 23, 2011, 02:32:06 AM
i would appreciate it if you didnt post private pictures of my wife.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 23, 2011, 03:52:15 AM
In my defense she didn't mention she was married.   :D
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: awaken DM golem August 23, 2011, 08:38:45 PM
I don't remember Hillary Clinton having that haircut , but I don't watch that much TV.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 23, 2011, 09:05:52 PM
Let us focus on the new spellcastin rules and what I may have done wrong.


Else I shall post the sexay male cthulhu much to everyones consternation.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 24, 2011, 12:25:09 AM
Let us focus on the new spellcastin rules and what I may have done wrong.


Else I shall post the sexay male cthulhu much to everyones consternation.

can you post that anyway?  :D
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Bozwevial August 24, 2011, 01:23:33 AM
I'm slightly concerned with how much this will eat into a typical character's skill points compared to how much you'd get out of it, but I suppose I can't really pass judgment on that point right now.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 24, 2011, 04:14:21 AM
So scribble out some example spells and then we'll see where it goes from there?
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Daniel678 August 24, 2011, 04:19:41 AM
Instead of having a new skill for each spell why not instead tie spells to existing skills? It would have the same effect of having spellcasters specialize and it makes sense that, for instance, a good Gather Information check could help someone gather relevant information from a Scrying spell. A haste spell could require everyone to make a tumble roll to make the most of it's effects etc.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 24, 2011, 03:53:37 PM
The original idea was that in CoC or even in mythos stories for the most part, knowing one spell doesn't help you in learning any other one, and no one learns very many spells.  The skill point idea seemed like a mechanical way of doing that.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Bozwevial August 24, 2011, 05:08:07 PM
Plus, spellcasting here isn't meant to be the casual sort of thing it is in D&D. They're (as I understand it) meant to be reserved for dire situations and are probably going to be more along the lines of divinations, abjurations, and the like.

The trick is making the spells useful enough to merit losing out on useful skill points but not so useful that you don't want to spend them on anything else.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 24, 2011, 07:56:52 PM
Plus, spellcasting here isn't meant to be the casual sort of thing it is in D&D. They're (as I understand it) meant to be reserved for dire situations and are probably going to be more along the lines of divinations, abjurations, and the like.

The trick is making the spells useful enough to merit losing out on useful skill points but not so useful that you don't want to spend them on anything else.

Summons are probably the best example. in this case, while they are very useful, it costs SAN to cast, and then you most likely lose additional SAN to the creature.

I would say lump all the summons, Byakhee, Mi-Go, Deep One, etc... into one skill. byakhee is extremely important as a summonable flyer, while the mi-go are useless in most situations, the Deep Ones make excellent underwater scouts... but with all the SAN loss, i am not likely to invest in 3 or more different summons.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 24, 2011, 09:15:39 PM
plus you have to have the binding spell for each summon
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: veekie August 25, 2011, 03:17:56 AM
Psh, who needs bindings. You just need to run faster than your victim.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 26, 2011, 02:56:07 AM
Depends on what you summon.  Some of htem might be able to get to both of you.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 26, 2011, 11:30:00 AM
Depends on what you summon.  Some of htem might be able to get to both of you.

*cough* Hounds of Tindalos *cough*
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: bhu August 27, 2011, 01:16:43 AM
Not to mention what happens if you bork the summoning

"I AM ZUL, 4TH COUSIN OF TSATHOGGHUA!"


"um...I just wanted a Shantak Bird..."

"YOU WILL TAKE ME AND LIKE IT!"
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: Mister Lamp August 27, 2011, 01:52:17 AM
Not to mention what happens if you bork the summoning

"I AM ZUL, 4TH COUSIN OF TSATHOGGHUA!"


"um...I just wanted a Shantak Bird..."

"YOU WILL TAKE ME AND LIKE IT!"


umm...  ???

I'm just saying, once you attract the attention of a Hound of Tindalos, You're effectively dead.
Normally, you get there attention via Time Travel, (I think I know who [read: what] the impossible astronaut was. o.O ), but summoning would work too.
: Re: Preliminary draft of Sanity rules up for review
: veekie August 27, 2011, 07:15:45 AM
Obviously you tried to summon something from the wrong time span.