Brilliant Gameologists Forum

The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Bortasz April 06, 2011, 03:00:08 PM

: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Bortasz April 06, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
I have little fun witch Creating you own Magical/Psionic equipment.

Take Inertial Armour.

You get a +4 to AC at First lvl.. than for ANY 2 PP you spend you get aditional +1kp

So for 19 PP you have a +13 to AC for 19h

Creating Magic object witch Word of order its Power lvl * Caster lvl * 1 800
BUT
if you have daily uses you / the price for 5 - Charges.

So Belt of Inertial Armour from 19 lvl Psion witch just 1 charge will cost

1*19*1800/4 =19*1800/4=34 200/4= 8 550gold...

For 19 ours a +13 for AC for only 8 550

On the other Hand... creating Lasting effect of Inertial Armour will cost
1*19*2000=19*2000= 38 000
WTF???

Im Afraid add to that Force Screen... Yes they stack.

IF GM allow You Dream Items.... Can somebody pleas wake me up?

PS I Forget add Overchanell...
AC 15
Gold 10 350
Time 23 Ours. (20 lvl of psion and overcjanell do add +3 manifester lvl)
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Psithief April 06, 2011, 03:06:53 PM
#1. You are discouraged in the guidelines from using spells/powers at power level*manifester level*x if such a bonus already exists in the suggestions table. Armour classes are such an effect!
Armour should be priced at bonus squared * y * 1000, where y is 1 for your basic armour bonus, 2 for deflection or natural armour, and 2.5 for luck or other types.

#2. Augmentable powers increase in level when calculating (power level) for the above calculation. That would increase the cost to (10)*(19)*1800! And you can't do it anyway, see #1.

#3. Bonuses to AC never go above +5 pre-epic, for some reason.

#4. This would have been better served in the ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION thread. It's for simple...things.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Bortasz April 06, 2011, 03:36:50 PM
Sorry My mistake...

But i Don't whana create something that Add AC bonus. I whana Create Object that will cast upon My person Inertial Armour.

That will Still Count ass bonus to AC? Not a Power Effect?
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: The_Mad_Linguist April 06, 2011, 03:52:58 PM
Sorry My mistake...

But i Don't whana create something that Add AC bonus. I whana Create Object that will cast upon My person Inertial Armour.

That will Still Count ass bonus to AC? Not a Power Effect?
Yep.  It's the same case as a sword of use-activated "true strike"
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Felix Underwood April 06, 2011, 03:55:26 PM
The bonus to AC from Inertial Armor is an "Armor" bonus to AC (armor type bonus).

The bonus to AC from Force Screen is a "Shield" bonus to AC (shield type bonus).

N-squared times 1,000 is for Enhancement bonuses.

When comparing a proposed custom item to examples already in print, the closest example I believe would be Bracers of Armor.  I would use that example to establish the price for such a custom item.

Also, if you want a once-per-day type of charged item, you would divide by (5/number of charges per day)... so your example would divide the amount by 5... but that is nullified by the existence of a comparable item.

Also, Also, when you use a #-charges-per-day item beware of anti-magic fields and Dispel/Greater Dispel Magic (and other such effects).  Your carefully planned, all-day buffs can be wiped clean without a way to quickly renew them.  Truely continuous items are suppressed and can be re-activated.


On an unrelated note:  My head hurts.... and "ass bonus".   :D
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Ras F April 06, 2011, 05:42:21 PM
#2. Augmentable powers increase in level when calculating (power level) for the above calculation. That would increase the cost to (10)*(19)*1800!

That is a descriptor of crafting Dorjes and Psicrowns specifically. It isn't called out as such when creating other items. Can you cite a source stating otherwise?

Also, Also, when you use a #-charges-per-day item beware of anti-magic fields and Dispel/Greater Dispel Magic (and other such effects).  Your carefully planned, all-day buffs can be wiped clean without a way to quickly renew them.  Truely continuous items are suppressed and can be re-activated.

Dispels, yes, Anti-Magic fields, no. Anti-magic fields merely suppress ongoing effects, they don't nullify them.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Bortasz April 06, 2011, 06:45:13 PM
Felix I divide By 4 (5-1charge)

And okay I get it... So now Extra super duper Deflection Field :(

So it will be

13 AC

13*13*1000 /(5-Charges)= 169*1000/(5-Charges)=169 000/(5-Charges)=42 250 gold for the 1 Charge for the 19 ours.
Correct?
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Lycanthromancer April 06, 2011, 07:02:55 PM
Well, if you make a vest with Inertial Armor 1/day that takes up the armor slot, this would be much cheaper.

After all, normal armors are really cheap, and they can't generally be dispelled.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Ras F April 06, 2011, 07:14:05 PM
Well, if you make a vest with Inertial Armor 1/day that takes up the armor slot, this would be much cheaper.

After all, normal armors are really cheap, and they can't generally be dispelled.

A vest shouldn't take up an armor slot.

According to MIC, there are-
•Head: Circlets, crowns, hats, headbands, helmets, phylacteries.
•Face: Goggles, lenses, masks, spectacles, third eyes.
•Throat: Amulets, badges, brooches, collars, medals, medallions, necklaces, pendants, periapts, scarabs, scarfs, torcs.
•Shoulders: Capes, cloaks, mantles, shawls.
•Body: Armor, robes.
•Torso: Shirts, tunics, vests, vestments.
•Arms: Armbands, bracelets, bracers.
•Hands: Gauntlets, gloves.
•Waist: Belts, girdles, sashes.
•Rings(2)
•Feet: Boots, sandals, shoes, slippers.
•Held: Weapons, shields, other items.

Unless of course, you just meant a generic 'armor' slot, in which case... my bad!
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Lycanthromancer April 06, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
Well, if you make a vest with Inertial Armor 1/day that takes up the armor slot, this would be much cheaper.

After all, normal armors are really cheap, and they can't generally be dispelled.
Unless of course, you just meant a generic 'armor' slot, in which case... my bad!
Bingo.

It was his name-o.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Bortasz April 06, 2011, 07:17:56 PM
Lycanthromancer

But i Just make calculation about that... 19PP Inertial Armour witch 1/day use.

13*13*1000/(5-1charge)=42 250

O_o

oki.

Can somebody post a how much it will be cost?

Inertial Armour witch 19PP augmentation. 1 Charge Per Day.
it Give 13AC for 19 ours...
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: awaken DM golem April 06, 2011, 07:34:33 PM
That is the fun with Custom Magic (psi) Items. Balance can get thrown to the wolves.


So yeah, it could be a Dorje 13*19*375= 92 625 gp.
Use once at the start of the day, lasts for 19 hours. Can be dispelled.
It could be a Powerstone 1*19*12.5 = silly.
Hence the rules call it an "estimate" with DM Fiat strongly hinted at.


TML's Sword of True Strike example, has been a problem from the start or even 3.0.
Turns out, the +20 bonus requires a caster level of Bonus*3.
Yep that's a 60 caster level, and good luck with that.
So 1*60*1000 = 60 000 gp, unless you wanna talk to sword every round,
discounting it to *900 = 54 000 gp. Still need the 60 CL.


So arguably the real cost of a Powerstone version,
could cost the +13 mod * 3 manifester level = 39 !!
making it 1 * 39 * 12.5 = still silly.
You draw an OA wen you activate it too ...  :rollseyes
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: SorO_Lost April 06, 2011, 08:20:22 PM
13*13*1000 /(5-Charges)= 169*1000/(5-Charges)=169 000/(5-Charges)=42 250 gold for the 1 Charge for the 19 ours.
Correct?
And yet, +5 Full-Plate (+13 armor) is < 30k.

Armor doesn't prevent manifesting. So if you play god-style, who cares about the penalty to attack rolls for nonproficiency?
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Lycanthromancer April 06, 2011, 08:33:28 PM
13*13*1000 /(5-Charges)= 169*1000/(5-Charges)=169 000/(5-Charges)=42 250 gold for the 1 Charge for the 19 ours.
Correct?
And yet, +5 Full-Plate (+13 armor) is < 30k.

Armor doesn't prevent manifesting. So if you play god-style, who cares about the penalty to attack rolls for nonproficiency?
Full plate also hits your ability to fly, your land speed, and doesn't do squat when you use Metamorphosis to turn into something non-humanoid in shape.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: SorO_Lost April 07, 2011, 02:10:52 AM
13*13*1000 /(5-Charges)= 169*1000/(5-Charges)=169 000/(5-Charges)=42 250 gold for the 1 Charge for the 19 ours.
Correct?
And yet, +5 Full-Plate (+13 armor) is < 30k.

Armor doesn't prevent manifesting. So if you play god-style, who cares about the penalty to attack rolls for nonproficiency?
Full plate also hits your ability to fly1, your land speed2, and doesn't do squat when you use Metamorphosis to turn into something non-humanoid in shape3.
1. Tooth of Savok.
2. Tooth of Savok.
3. Hence why it's cheaper huh.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Ras F April 07, 2011, 02:41:52 AM
13*13*1000 /(5-Charges)= 169*1000/(5-Charges)=169 000/(5-Charges)=42 250 gold for the 1 Charge for the 19 ours.
Correct?
And yet, +5 Full-Plate (+13 armor) is < 30k.

Armor doesn't prevent manifesting. So if you play god-style, who cares about the penalty to attack rolls for nonproficiency?
Full plate also hits your ability to fly1, your land speed2, and doesn't do squat when you use Metamorphosis to turn into something non-humanoid in shape3.
1. Tooth of Savok.
2. Tooth of Savok.
3. Hence why it's cheaper huh.

Isn't the Tooth of Savnok as rare as say Acererak's Robe, The Rod of Cas, The Sword of Kas or the Wand of Orcus?
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: CrimsonDeath April 07, 2011, 03:06:11 AM
#3. Bonuses to AC never go above +5 pre-epic, for some reason.
Not quite entirely true. Bracers of Armor go up to +8.  (Still a good way shy of +13, but still...)
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Sinfire Titan April 07, 2011, 03:13:02 AM
Isn't the Tooth of Savnok as rare as say Acererak's Robe, The Rod of Cas, The Sword of Kas or the Wand of Orcus?

No, as it has a price listed.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: skydragonknight April 07, 2011, 03:41:28 AM
Isn't the Tooth of Savnok as rare as say Acererak's Robe, The Rod of Cas, The Sword of Kas or the Wand of Orcus?

No, as it has a price listed.

He has a lot of dental work done.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Bortasz April 07, 2011, 03:46:48 AM
Okay Guys stop....

I don't want a Power Stone. I want something that have charges per day. Witch word of order...

In GM Book its say to create such object i take
power lvl * caster lvl * 1 800 /(5-charges per day)
So inertial Armour witch full augmentation will be
9*19*1800/4= 76 950 fo 1 charge per day

You tell me that I should take Armor bonus
13*13*1000= 169 000 (for endles working)
169 000/(5-charges) =169000/4= 42 250 For 1 charge.

The True is?

And how in all of this feet a Skin of Ectoplasmic Armour?
+8AC for only 3 000 gold?
It's from Complete Psionic Item.

: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Ras F April 07, 2011, 04:01:48 AM
Okay Guys stop....

I don't want a Power Stone. I want something that have charges per day. Witch word of order...

In GM Book its say to create such object i take
power lvl * caster lvl * 1 800 /(5-charges per day)
So inertial Armour witch full augmentation will be
9*19*1800/4= 76 950 fo 1 charge per day

You tell me that I should take Armor bonus
13*13*1000= 169 000 (for endles working)
169 000/(5-charges) =169000/4= 42 250 For 1 charge.

The True is?

And how in all of this feet a Skin of Ectoplasmic Armour?
+8AC for only 3 000 gold?
It's from Complete Psionic Item.

The reason people are telling you different things than what is written is because the item crafting rules themselves have a built in clause stating that when pricing a magic item, it's supposed to be priced according to items that already exist if it has parallels. In essence, there is no such thing as an actual pricing "rule", they are guidelines.

The Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor was most recently printed in MIC p.170 taking precedence, it costs 6k, has a restrictive maximum dexterity cap, armor check penalties, spell failure chance, and conflicts with class features requiring no armor, such as a monks. None of those drawbacks apply to a manifestation of the Inertial Armor power.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: The_Mad_Linguist April 07, 2011, 05:17:36 AM
Basically, the formulas given are explicitly stated to be rough guidelines, and not actual rules.
: Re: +13 AC for only 8550gold???
: Lycanthromancer April 07, 2011, 02:41:05 PM
Okay Guys stop....

I don't want a Power Stone. I want something that have charges per day. Witch word of order...

In GM Book its say to create such object i take
power lvl * caster lvl * 1 800 /(5-charges per day)
So inertial Armour witch full augmentation will be
9*19*1800/4= 76 950 fo 1 charge per day

You tell me that I should take Armor bonus
13*13*1000= 169 000 (for endles working)
169 000/(5-charges) =169000/4= 42 250 For 1 charge.

The True is?

And how in all of this feet a Skin of Ectoplasmic Armour?
+8AC for only 3 000 gold?
It's from Complete Psionic Item.

The reason people are telling you different things than what is written is because the item crafting rules themselves have a built in clause stating that when pricing a magic item, it's supposed to be priced according to items that already exist if it has parallels. In essence, there is no such thing as an actual pricing "rule", they are guidelines.

The Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor was most recently printed in MIC p.170 taking precedence, it costs 6k, has a restrictive maximum dexterity cap, armor check penalties, spell failure chance, and conflicts with class features requiring no armor, such as a monks. None of those drawbacks apply to a manifestation of the Inertial Armor power.
Which is why nobody would ever want that psychoactive skin now.

I know I wouldn't.