Brilliant Gameologists Forum

The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => Topic started by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 10:09:46 PM

Title: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 10:09:46 PM
Any ideas for min-maxing a Psion?
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2011, 10:13:06 PM
Schism.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 05, 2011, 10:18:23 PM
Depends on what you want. I can optimize the hell out of psionics, but...what do you want to do?

Psionics goes especially well on its own, as well as with ToB and Magic of Incarnum.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 10:20:44 PM
Depends on what you want. I can optimize the hell out of psionics, but...what do you want to do?

Psionics goes especially well on its own, as well as with ToB and Magic of Incarnum.


I just want to make a Psion that can actually contribute something to combat. The campaign is epic-level so it is really hard to keep up with the damage output of other characters. Schism is nice, but it burns through PP so fast that you can't keep going for too long and the damage just isn't enough in epic.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2011, 10:30:05 PM
Don't focus on damage.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 10:53:55 PM
Don't focus on damage.


I have a strong preference towards a damage-oriented focus, but what alternative would you suggest?
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2011, 10:55:37 PM
Battlefield Control? Buffing? Summoning Astral Constructs to beat people up for you?
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 05, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
If it's epic level, I have a few suggestions.

Such as, go anarchic initiate, then take metamind once you reach ML 20, then take Practiced Manifester. Get some infinite-pp going, and spam Empowered Empowered Chaotic-Surged Tornado Blasts using lots and lots of actions to blow up the bad guys. Schism can help here, too, especially if you're Fissioned.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Unbeliever on April 05, 2011, 11:08:07 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2011, 11:13:12 PM
They never released anything to support Epic Constructs?
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Unbeliever on April 05, 2011, 11:14:54 PM
They never released anything to support Epic Constructs?
Oh jeez, I have absolutely no idea.  Did they ever produce any support for epic-level Summon Monster?  Outside of Gate, that is.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2011, 11:18:30 PM
Sort of? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/summonBehemoth.htm)
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 11:20:20 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 11:22:41 PM
If it's epic level, I have a few suggestions.

Such as, go anarchic initiate, then take metamind once you reach ML 20, then take Practiced Manifester. Get some infinite-pp going, and spam Empowered Empowered Chaotic-Surged Tornado Blasts using lots and lots of actions to blow up the bad guys. Schism can help here, too, especially if you're Fissioned.

Thanks : )
I had considered Metamind before but I didn't think of Anarchic Initiate. I'll take a look at that.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Phoenix00 on April 05, 2011, 11:25:51 PM
Schism+Synchitoricity
Fixed that for you ;)

Sense Danger (MoE)+synchitoricity is also made of win
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 05, 2011, 11:40:40 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
That would be me, actually. Check the handle on my posts.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Maeshin on April 05, 2011, 11:47:08 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
That would be me, actually. Check the handle on my posts.

Oh! Ha, sorry ^_^
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 05, 2011, 11:51:25 PM
Also, don't underestimate the power of really low-level powers.

Such as Psionic Grease.

I mean, you can pretty much screw over epic golems for 1 pp.

You might also want to multiclass into ardent or something after ML 20, then epic PrC it so you can increase your pp pool.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Unbeliever on April 06, 2011, 12:55:57 AM
If it's epic level, I have a few suggestions.

Such as, go anarchic initiate, then take metamind once you reach ML 20, then take Practiced Manifester. Get some infinite-pp going, and spam Empowered Empowered Chaotic-Surged Tornado Blasts using lots and lots of actions to blow up the bad guys. Schism can help here, too, especially if you're Fissioned.

Thanks : )
I had considered Metamind before but I didn't think of Anarchic Initiate. I'll take a look at that.
I only played it till 15th level, but it was great fun and did help out w/ the blastiness.  Also, I found Illithid Slayer handy for its Mind Blank and "you can't see me!" effects.  Though those are perhaps gotten more easily through other methods when you are really high level. 
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 06, 2011, 01:35:10 AM
The best part about slayer is that the Mind Blank effect only blocks bad stuff. Everything else, like bard music, comes right on through.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 06, 2011, 01:37:34 AM
Also, Psicrystal Affinity will most likely be the most flexible and powerful feat you'll ever take, depending on your build.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: CrimsonDeath on April 06, 2011, 01:45:32 AM
Never thought I'd see Lycanthromancer suggest Metamind, but it does get a lot better around level 25 (later if you don't start by 16).

Can Font of Power be used for the PP reserve for Soul Crystal?  I can see arguments either way.

If you are going Slayer, it may go without saying, but I'll say it anyway...  Finish before 20 to maximize your BAB.  Psion 6/Anarchic Initiate 4 is a good lead-in.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 06, 2011, 01:49:36 AM
There are only two times when metamind is usable: once you hit epic, and if you can start with all 10 levels and Font of Power.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Flay Crimsonwind on April 06, 2011, 07:27:55 AM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
That would be me, actually. Check the handle on my posts.
Might think of taking that question as a siggy-piece though, Lycanthromancer.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 06, 2011, 06:59:56 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
That would be me, actually. Check the handle on my posts.
Might think of taking that question as a siggy-piece though, Lycanthromancer.
It's too bad nobody else responded with 'The Book of Awesome' or something. Then I just might have.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: KellKheraptis on April 06, 2011, 07:02:56 PM
If it's damage on a psion you want, let me find my Battle Toad Hood.  Non-stop power, never runs out of steam, never eats, sleeps, drinks, or breathes, built in recharge, and capable of all the same curb stomping a normal Hood is, while also being effectively a full manifester.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 06, 2011, 07:05:19 PM
If it's damage on a psion you want, let me find my Battle Toad Hood.  Non-stop power, never runs out of steam, never eats, sleeps, drinks, or breathes, built in recharge, and capable of all the same curb stomping a normal Hood is, while also being effectively a full manifester.
That's actually pretty easy with metamind or recharge shenanigans and Metamorphosis.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: awaken DM golem on April 06, 2011, 07:36:47 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?



Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: awaken DM golem on April 06, 2011, 07:38:48 PM
They never released anything to support Epic Constructs?
Oh jeez, I have absolutely no idea.  Did they ever produce any support for epic-level Summon Monster?  Outside of Gate, that is.

3.0 web stuff on Mind's Eye included:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20020727c
... completely unadapted. Can be though.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: sir_argenon on April 07, 2011, 12:01:35 AM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?



Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D

shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 07, 2011, 02:58:16 PM
+1 Lycanthromancer, infinite PP and recharge mechanics aren't a huge power boost at this level -- it's hard to run out of spell slots usually.  But, it will be freeing, letting you cut loose no matter what, and Psionics is quite good for abusing action economy. 

I think at epic level Astral Constructs, like all non-Gate-based summoning, end up being useless. 

Which book is Lycanthromancer in?



Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D

shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
Okay, okay! I give!

Check my sig. :D
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 07, 2011, 03:00:33 PM
They never released anything to support Epic Constructs?
Oh jeez, I have absolutely no idea.  Did they ever produce any support for epic-level Summon Monster?  Outside of Gate, that is.

3.0 web stuff on Mind's Eye included:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20020727c
... completely unadapted. Can be though.

My psionic powers revision also has rules for epic constructs.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Unbeliever on April 07, 2011, 03:26:31 PM
Do you have a link?  I have no idea when that will ever come up for me, but it'd be nice to have around just in case.  Besides, I've been looking to rework some summoning rules in general.
Title: Re: Making a powerful Psion
Post by: Lycanthromancer on April 07, 2011, 03:41:07 PM
Do you have a link?  I have no idea when that will ever come up for me, but it'd be nice to have around just in case.  Besides, I've been looking to rework some summoning rules in general.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3080.msg96084#msg96084