Group o' fighters optimization

[lans]

So
Pink= Knowledge Devotion Archer
Black=Shocktrooper
Blue=Reach Fighter
Yellow=Duel Weapon Fighter(sneak attack variant?)
Red=Leader has white raven tactics.

[skydragonknight]

...that might actually work. It would be fun to stat that up at mid levels(6-12) and use that as an encounter.

[Saxony]

I'm thing a group of spiked chain trippers with combat reflexes for BC maybe with an archer or two for damage.

Spiked Chain trippers are damage. Archers are less so (almost pitiably less so than regular melee stuff). Also; a prone enemy has -4 melee AC but +4 ranged AC. So a couple of feat dedicated archers in a party of spiked chain trippers = not optimized.

Unless of course one's DM plays to archery's main strength and starts encounters with the enemies in with no cover over 200' away and no archers of their own. Then I could definitely see archers+spiked chain trippers working out well.

[skydragonknight]

Oh. And all melee fighters for any of these teams take Robilar's Gambit at 12th level. No exceptions.

[Surreal]

Make them all dragonborn, at least one with entangling breath, one with flight, and one with senses. Might as well make the remaining two breath weapons as well. Direct damage is often overlooked, but three quickened breath weapons coming down at once is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you have a tripper/shock trooper bearing down on you right after. And since we're dragonborn, take the dragonhusk ACF for some nice armour.

[Amechra]

I really like what you guys have suggested.
Here's a silly 2 person one I thought up.
1 has powerful build (from his race, not sure which), rock hurling, improved rock hurling, and throw ally.
2 has Wild Talent (Reduction), Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Robilar's Gambit (Add psionic talent for some more times/day)

Big one throws small one a long ways, small one gets a shit load of AoOs (Make sure you meet the prereqs.) 


Another one would be giving each of the five one of those feats that add spell-like abilities, add Spellfire Wielder and spell-like enhancers to taste.
Sure, it's weak, but you aren't supposed to use the targeted ones on the enemy, 'cause using them on the SW means you just got yourself some artillery.   

[Anklebite]

martial study is a fighter feat.

[Mixster]

Also Ebberron dragonmarks can give them some much needed healing.

Hmm, the ranged attacker could be a strongheart halfling, they do that build rather well.

[carnivore]

Hi everybody!
Alright, let's get one thing straight. I'm not asking for build help. This is just a little fun I thought up (or at least I think it's fun...)

Alright, here's the idea: make a group of 2-5 pure fighters that mesh.
In other words, the following rules apply:
- 2-5 fighters, no more, no less.
- Can only take levels in fighter (No races can be used with higher than +0 LA. Same applies for templates)
- No magic items. The best you're getting is masterwork.

You may carry on.

ok lets refine the rules a bit:


5 Character group
Fighter only
32 pt buy
10th lvl builds
No Magic items
2 Flaws
Traits are OK

... ok ill try something later

 

[Anklebite]

1) martial study is a fighter feat
2) 10th level of fighter grants a fighter feat
3) 10th level non-martial adepts have an IL of 5.
4) white raven tactics is a 3rd level maneuver.


 

[Lunaramblings]

I have to say, I really don't see the point in builds with those types of restrictions. In order to be effective at 10th level, you NEED magical gear. It is really pretty much impossible at that level to face level appropriate challenges without appropriate gear. Gear is a major part of a Fighter. Unlike spellcasters that can pretty much walk down the street naked and still be effective, non-casters need level appropriate gear. How do you deal with DR/magic? How do you deal with swarms? Part of being a 10th level character is having gear appropriate to level.

[lans]

Thoughts
Relics and Grafts- Do not count as magic items
Pay money for PaO, Psychic Reformation or Dark Chaos Shuffle or other such effects.
Fey Heritage> Fey Power and Fey Legacy or Fiendish Heritage> FIENDISH PRESENCE and/or FIENDISH LEGACY
Also Bind Vestige chain, gets an infinite supply of disposable scouts or water breathing or just giving adjacent enemies -2 to attack or a free suit of +1 full plate.

Devoted to an elder evil, gets 3 bonus feats from a limited list at this level. One of these on the list is immunity to mind affecting effects.

Selling your soul is good for two feats or some other bonuses.

Does Item Familiar count as a magic item for purposes of the ban?

I have to say, I really don't see the point in builds with those types of restrictions. In order to be effective at 10th level, you NEED magical gear. It is really pretty much impossible at that level to face level appropriate challenges without appropriate gear.

Maybe, but I think thats part of the challenge

Gear is a major part of a Fighter. Unlike spellcasters that can pretty much walk down the street naked and still be effective, non-casters need level appropriate gear. How do you deal with DR/magic?

A lot of damage at once? DR/magic at this level caps at about 10-15ish?

How do you deal with swarms?

There's a candle from A&E Guide that repels them, grenades, torches, dragons breath, incarnum maybe.

Part of being a 10th level character is having gear appropriate to level.

Its also having the option to not be stuck in a dead end class, but thats not part of this challenge.

[Lunaramblings]

An intrinsic part of BEING 10th level is appropriate gear.

[Amechra]

Item familiar is a part of you, so it is fine.

Basically, you can add magic items later, but I'm asking for builds that are effective without the magic items, just so I can see how many roles a fighter can fill.

[skydragonknight]

Just get Dwarvencraft Adamantine/Mythril Everything. Non-magical. Most magic items just give bonuses, not options, so a build is still recognizable without them. Think of it like designing a sub: you select the basic ingredients and the person buying it chooses the rest.

[Anklebite]

azurin fighter10

feats:
lvl1: shape soulmeld(incarnate avatar[evil]); two weapon fighting; OPEN FEAT;
lvl2: martial study(wolf fang strike);
lvl3: improved soulmeld capacity;
lvl4: martial stance(blood in the water);
lvl6: extra essentia; improved two weapon fighting;
lvl8: improved critical(kukri);
lvl9: martial study(any white raven maneuver you qualify for);
lvl10: martial study(WRT)

here's a sample build. max str, get enough dex for TWF, and there is even a spare feat at level one.  improved soulmeld capacity means you will be able to put all 3 essentia into incarnate avatar, granting a +6 bonus to damage.

assuming 28 ptbuy:
str   16
dex  18   +2 from levels
con  14
int   08
wis  10
cha  08

your attack routine will be, assuming mwk kukris,  +12/+12/+7/+7  1d4+9  15-20/x2, and then comes blood in the water.

huh, you know what? this is shit. instead, let's max dex, making str base 12, and dex base 18(20, after level increases). then, the open first level feat will be weapon finesse. switch incarnate avatar from evil to lawful.

new attack routine: +17/+17/+12/+12 1d4+1 15-20/x2, relying entirely on blood in the water for damage. note that it still works against crit immunes; you only need to crit, not have the opponent take extra critical damage. again, we are assuming mwk kukris.

also, we have white raven tactics.

[skydragonknight]

Other Fighter builds: Dungeoncrasher/Shocktrooper, Talenta Boomerang w/Ranged weapon mastery, Zhentarim Soldier fear build w/Imperious command.

[Anklebite]

Other Fighter builds: Dungeoncrasher/Shocktrooper, Talenta Boomerang w/Ranged weapon mastery, Zhentarim Soldier fear build w/Imperious command.

oh, and everbody maxes intimidate and takes the "never outnumbered" skill trick.

it can't hurt.

[skydragonknight]

No other use for skill points.

[Anklebite]

No other use for skill points.

what about handle animal, and the extreme hilarity thereof?

after all, since we are starting at 10th level, and have all our gold available for buying eggs/babies....

time for warbred animal spam!