Skies of Arcadia Recruiting and OOC

[Nanshork]

I can do Bluff. No probs. I think I will leave the skills as they are then:

Bluff
Concentration
Hide
Know Arcana
Know Religion
Spellcraft


BTW, I also get UMD as a class skill...

With a Charisma like that, go for it if you've got the skill points.

[AndyJames]

That's the problem. I have to drop Hide or Bluff to get it The others are pretty much non-negotiable.

[Nanshork]

That's the problem. I have to drop Hide or Bluff to get it The others are pretty much non-negotiable.

Well you don't have to go UMD, I know we've got at least one skill-monkey with points in it.   

[AndyJames]

LoL! Eventually, I won't need UMD to use just about anything non-Druid related anyways

[VennDygrem]

Let's dump totemist for now. Instead, I give you: "Sleeping Tiger, Hidden Dragon."

Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling Beguiler//Monk (sleeping tiger variant from UA).
Benefits? Free bonus on Hide checks, Two good non-standard monk feats, one not so good but hey, it's free, and as long as I use a feat slot for PA, I get free extra precision damage 1/round (and with invis, Beguiler's surprise casting, or various other spells like Distract Assailant, Denying an enemy its dex bonus to AC should be pretty easy).

I can gain a fly speed by either going with the Wings aspect, or by sacrificing two feat slots to get Outsider Wings, freeing up the Heart or Mind aspect.

Plus, I'd have 25 hp off the bat and base 19 hp, 23 with Mage Armor, more with items, and what's more, taking Carmendine Monk allows me to pump my Int for monk abilities and spellcasting. I can even afford ranks in UMD to boost my available spells, not to mention plenty of other skill points for relevant trapfinding and other skills.

I'll call it the Shadow Fist class.

[AlienFromBeyond]

How does Words of Creation work with bardic music abilities from prestige classes? More specifically, the ones from the Stormsinger class in Frostburn, and even more specifically Thunderstrike/Control Winds.

Is there a Masterwork Tool for Perform (Sing)?

ASF for shields. Same thing with the Moon Magus, really.

To clarify, that means I do not ignore ASF on shields like I do Light/Medium armor correct?

Anyone have suggestions for an armor type for me to wear in the mean time? I could wear Full Plate, but the massive ACP scares me in case anything makes me do a Balance check or something. I do plan on eventually getting Reinforced, Vital Covering, Segmented, Soulborn Mithral +1 Full Plate of Nimbleness with Netcutter Spikes and Fast-Donning Straps (check Dragon #358 for those you don't know). It'll end up costing me 13750 just for the base armor itself before enhancing it with magic.

[AndyJames]

Let's dump totemist for now. Instead, I give you: "Sleeping Tiger, Hidden Dragon."

Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling Beguiler//Monk (sleeping tiger variant from UA).
Benefits? Free bonus on Hide checks, Two good non-standard monk feats, one not so good but hey, it's free, and as long as I use a feat slot for PA, I get free extra precision damage 1/round (and with invis, Beguiler's surprise casting, or various other spells like Distract Assailant, Denying an enemy its dex bonus to AC should be pretty easy).

I can gain a fly speed by either going with the Wings aspect, or by sacrificing two feat slots to get Outsider Wings, freeing up the Heart or Mind aspect.

Plus, I'd have 25 hp off the bat and base 19 hp, 23 with Mage Armor, more with items, and what's more, taking Carmendine Monk allows me to pump my Int for monk abilities and spellcasting. I can even afford ranks in UMD to boost my available spells, not to mention plenty of other skill points for relevant trapfinding and other skills.

I'll call it the Shadow Fist class.

Hmm... Unarmed Swordsage, my friend. Unarmed Swordsage. Then, buy a Chain Shirt +1.

Ask Sinfire if you can use Carmi with Swordsage (RAI is a yes, but RAW?).

[VennDygrem]

My first version of this build used Swordsage, but that whole feat thing plus unarmed damage progression made me rethink. Plus the saves and bonus feats, though the bonus precision damage would obviously not be as good as swordsage maneuvers.

I'll wait to hear Sinfire's ruling.

[Rufei]

Try Martial Artist. SiFir recommended it to me and that's how my AC will keep skyrocketing (touch at that). Besides, I'm probably going to take the ability that adds Dex to trip attempts (+9 for me). If you don't want to use Martial Artist (because you can't use some monk-related things such as substitution levels), try taking the Dark Moon Disciple substitution levels. There's the ability that allows you to be fully concealed so long as there's shadow (active hide check according to SiFir, but it's still amazing as hell). You can't say no to 50% miss chance. (Bring an umbrella.) That and it gives you Darkvision (or a boost to it, I'm assuming).

I do want to note one thing that may hurt: No full BAB and feat-starved. It's what kills the Monk, but thankfully Fighter levels fix that. (Though, maneuvers >>>> feats, really.)

[VennDygrem]

I tried looking for that, specifically, and found one Martial Artist class that did have full BAB and some slightly different abilities than your's and the monk, but it used a lot of homebrew feats and seemed pretty unbalanced.

Anyway, not having full BAB won't impact me much since neither monk nor swordsage have it.

I'll look into it if Sinfire passes on the "Martial Genius" feat, but if it's ok'd, I'd rather not double up on classes if I can help it. My other side would help keep me unique, as well as the martial technique choices, but I'm going to see about this.

The problem with making an Unarmed swordsage is I can't see how it would keep up with the damage of a monk's unarmed damage. Sure, Eventually I can take Superior unarmed strike and also grab a monk's belt (when I can afford them), but a Monk/martial-artist taking the same would still be ahead. Obviously the swordsage offsets this by getting a bunch of unique abilities in the form of their maneuvers.
Am I missing something?
Maybe if I go with swordsage I'd be better off just using some other weapon.

[AndyJames]

An Unarmed Swordsage's unarmed damage progression scales up as per the Monk's. What they don't get are the Flurry of Blows abilities.



Right

[VennDygrem]

Sorry, I didn't read it well enough. I guess I glossed over it when trying to go back and forth tweaking the build.


-edit-
For anyone else who, like me, couldn't find it, it's because it's under the "Adaptation" paragraph at the end of the entry.

-2-
Since the swordsage can get unarmed strike damage as a monk of their class level, do they also count as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, or would I have to take that still in order to qualify for monk-oriented feats? I'm guessing the answer is no, since it's not specifically mentioned.

[Rufei]

Not like you'd want to Flurry of Blows with average BAB. But in all honesty, we don't need super damage output for everyone. Swordsage seems to grapple a lot better than I would (I have a flaw that makes grappling harder)... and that's the manipulation that I don't have as a damage-focused bastard sword flurry monk.

Martial Genius? Is that Kungfu Genius/Carmendine Monk? Or something else?

And I'd say that you pretty much have it. After all, do you provoke AoOs using unarmed strikes?

[AndyJames]

You get IUS as well. Otherwise it won't make sense. The Adaption thing was a bit light on details.

[VennDygrem]

Not like you'd want to Flurry of Blows with average BAB. But in all honesty, we don't need super damage output for everyone. Swordsage seems to grapple a lot better than I would (I have a flaw that makes grappling harder)... and that's the manipulation that I don't have as a damage-focused bastard sword flurry monk.

Martial Genius? Is that Kungfu Genius/Carmendine Monk? Or something else?

And I'd say that you pretty much have it. After all, do you provoke AoOs using unarmed strikes?

Basically I was just renaming Kungfu Genius/Carmendine Monk to be more "Martial Adept" friendly, not that it needs it. I'm basically hoping to have the feat to use Intelligence for Swordsage features dependent on Wisdom (whether or not that extends to the maneuvers is likely irrelevant).  That means I can make Int out to benefit both Beguiler and Swordsage, and gives me plenty of skill points to prove a decent trapfinder.

As for grappling, my grapple mod's not too good, because I'm going weapon finesse, focusing on dex rather than str. This benefits AC, to-hit, and my skills all at the same time. However, some of the grapple/throw/etc. maneuvers allow me to use dex instead of str, and some also give a bonus to these checks as well.

Essentially, if the feat works out, that allows me to mostly just focus on two stats primarily, whereas most other builds I had were spread out a little more thin. Right now, my highest stat is 22, nowhere near as ridiculously high as some of you guys, but then it seems my options are a little more limited. Still, I'm content with the concept of the character, and when I get my questions answered, I'll be just about done (finally!).

[AndyJames]

If you are taking the Dex route, you will want to take a look at the Shadow Blade feat. Otherwise, you will struggle to make your damage meaningful at higher levels.

[Rufei]

Shadow Blade requires the usage of Shadow Hand weapons, which is why I didn't pick it (not like they'd let you do that with a Bastard Sword, otherwise it'd be OP).

I've also focused on Int and Dex only. And my Dex is 28 namely due to FP spending (18 point buy + 2 racial + 8 from 4 FP). Keeps me alive too.

Martial Artist has abilities that far outstrip some of the maneuvers for getting a good grapple check (which I may take):

Wrestler: the martial artist may add either his Dex or Str mod on grapple checks (whichever is better), and may add a competence bonus of 1/4 his martial artist level (max. 5; round up) to grapple checks.

Mighty Trip: the martial artist may add either his Dex mod or his Str mod on trip attacks (whichever is better), and may add a competence bonus of 1/4 his martial artist level (max. 5; round up) to trip attacks.

[AndyJames]

I was talking about Venn's guy. He uses unarmed strikes, which is a Shadow Hand weapon.

[Rufei]

Heh, whoops. I was referring to Venn's comment about ridiculously high stats. I did not realize that Shadow Hand weapons included unarmed strikes... *grin*.

EDIT: Just went back and looked at the Shadow Hand weapons. Currently laughing my ass off at how my off-hand Sai may be dealing more damage than my Bastard Sword (until I get Greater Weapon Specialization for the Bastard Sword) if I also take Shadow Blade.

[VennDygrem]

Would you suggest I rather ditch dex for str? Doing so would obviously clear up a couple of my feats and help my damage output.

Rearranging my ability points, it's not such a huge difference if I make Str the dominant combat ability, and I can always use one of the freed-up feats to take Insightful reflexes if that's my concern (would have been a big boost even before the swap). Right now, Dex is mostly just useful for boosting Move Silently and Hide, and next level I get knock as a 2nd lvl spell anyway. [Fixed]

I could also dump points out of Cha, but then I won't be using any wands or anything of that sort because my UMD would be useless. Should I bother with it?

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Zef: the Setting Sun strike maneuver "Mighty Throw" is similar to the trip, except as a level 1 maneuver, you

must succeed on a melee touch attack against your foe. Resolve the throw as a trip attempt (PH 158), but you do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and your opponent cannot try to trip you if you lose the opposed check. You can use your Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is higher. You gain a +4 bonus on the ability check.

You then are able to throw the enemy 10 feet away from you, making them fall prone. However, imagine pulling that off on an airship, near the railing. 
Of course, your benefit is being able to do your trip at will, while my special attack is 1/encounter.

Also, geez, how'd you manage to pull off that many FP? XD


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The Dex to damage is only when in a Shadow Hand stance, so you'd have to take a level in martial adept and one feat, or otherwise three feats.