Author Topic: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)  (Read 3002 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« on: July 18, 2009, 05:25:26 PM »

Preface: The Ebon Saint is a prestige class out of Complete Psionic.  In my opinion, It's better than a normal lurk and should be taken in lieu.  To understand the Ebon Saint, look first to;
Dictum Mortuum's Lurk Handbook
WyvernSlayer's Lurk's Buildguide and Compendium
Expanded Classes for alternative augment lists

A Cursory glance of the Ebon saint tells us that it's not really a warrior, what with D6 hit dice and medium BAB.
Not really a rogue what with 4+ skills and 1 sneak attack die over 5 levels.  
Not really a manifester, what with a loss of a manifester level at level 1.
Not really anti-caster with no spell resistance and only 2 good saves.

But all these incompletes and partial sums add up to something.  I don't really know what that is, but let's call it the Ebon Saint.

Let's look at the entry requirements.
  • 8 ranks in bluff, disguise, hide, and move silently. Means the minimum level for entry is level 6.  Very good skill reqs for making a sneaky character.
  • needs the feats combat expertise and improved feint. Important to note, that feint isn't that helpful without a Lurk entry.
  • Needs 1 pp to enter.  I know you're thinking "sup hidden talent" but this class improves manifesting, so the only (good) way to enter is through a manifesting class.
  • Sneak Attack OR Psionic Sneak Attack 1d6
They're pretty much driving the point home that this is for a sneaky character.

Lets look at what it gains over 5 levels
  • Sneak Attack.   Yah, 1 of them....
  • Dire Strike. This mechanic is what makes ebon saint an ok class, rather than a good class.  It requires you to spend one round observing your target of the dire strike, like an assassin's death attack reduced to one round. One round of doing nothing. The benefit is that you gain an insight bonus vs your target to your AC and attack bonus.  Only against your target. This maybe be good for BBEG's or any fight where there is a toughie in the group, but otherwise useless. What's worse is this is the only way you can use your Dire Augments.
  • Shadowfriend.  A decent class features, lets you add your EB level to hide and move silently checks when Psionically focusued.
  • Dire Augments. Here's the meat and taters of the build. They are;
  • Read thoughts for 3 pp, which the dc can be pumped up on a 2pp for 1 basis
  • Mind Interrogation, which lets you answer 1 question per strike if the victim knows it.  Interesting to note that this does not allow a save is not technically a [Mind Affecting] ability, so it's usable vs Immune, which is why I love this class
  • Steal Form. More and less powerful than the Alter Form spell.  Lets you alter form with whatever you dire strike with all the limitation of alter form, but since this is keyed off what you strike, you're not restricted to type.  But you have to rely on your DM for the forms.
  • Disappear from mind lets you use cloud mind on them, and if you stay away long enough, they forget the last encounter. The damage has to be nonlethal though :/

You can use your Dire Augments 3 + class level times per day.  If you think that "that's not a lot, I should have normal lurk augments to supplement my dire Augmentations" then NO!! BAD YOU FOR THINKING THAT! Augments are fundementally different from D.Augments.  Augments function on your attacks, while D.Augments function on your self.  That does not mean you shouldn't use lurks; the point is that these are separate mechanics as well as you have enough D.Augmentations per day.

My favorite build would be
Human
1- Rogue able learner Open
2- Psion(nomad or egoist)
3- Psion
4- Psion
5- Psion
6- Anarchic Initiate
7- Anarchic Initiate
8- E.Saint
9- E.Saint
10- Sanctified mind
11- Sanctified mind
12- Sanctified mind
13- Sanctified mind
14- Sanctified mind
15- Sanctified mind
16- E.Saint
17- E.Saint
18- E.Saint
19- Anarchic Initiate
20- Anarchic Initiate

The alter form lets you avoid having to use Metamorphic power, and allows it works beautifully.  Or you could look at it the other way and think that (normal and greater) metamorphisis make the later form redundant. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 07:09:23 PM by Paradox »

Emy

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 05:48:25 PM »
  • 8 ranks in bluff, disguise, hide, and move silently. Means the minimum level for entry is level 6.  Very good skill reqs for making a sneaky character.

Fixed that for you. 5 levels will get you the skill requirements, so you enter on 6.

Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 06:37:23 PM »
Boy is my face red! Edited the OP

Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 01:51:21 AM »
bump for feedback

InnaBinder

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
  • OnnaTable
    • Okay - - Your Turn: Monte Cook's Message Board
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 02:49:48 AM »
I'd consider the Psychic Rogue over the standard rogue for entry.  I seem to recall doodling around with Ebon Saint/Atavist a while ago; I'll see if I saved anything - or if it was worth saving.
Winning an argument on the internet is like winning in the Special Olympics.  You won, but you're still retarded.

I made a Handbook!?

Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 03:39:46 PM »
The psi-rogue gets less skill points than the normal rogue, and you get bonus pp from your psion levels.  So I think I'm missing something about psi-rogue.

awaken DM golem

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
  • PAO'd my Avatar
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 07:54:04 PM »
The 3 or 4 round run up to using the main class feature, sucks. Period.
Assassins have 3 spells that knock it down to 1 round, makes it ranged, and I forget the third helper (not enough honeysmacks for breakfast).
You need those.
The main class features aren't usable together until later levels. 9pp at 9th, 14 pp at 14th. Ouch. Can't use psiotheurgist on this.
CAN use Bloodlines, cutting the Class levels down to 1 or 2 !!

The Alter Self ability lets you change into whatever you stab.
That's the key. It's not limited to what Alter Self normally does.
It's "limited" to what you stab.
So, stab Demogorgon (if you can).
Metamorphic Transfer then gives this guy something unique to do, without bringing pun-pun into a game.
Not bad.

I prefer Ardent, and Substitute Powers.
Research powers should get the Assassin spells, but DM might say no.
Expanded Knowledge or Bend Reality 8 , gets the Assassin spells the late and expensive way.



Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 10:16:05 PM »
The 3 or 4 round run up to using the main class feature, sucks. Period.
Assassins have 3 spells that knock it down to 1 round, makes it ranged, and I forget the third helper (not enough honeysmacks for breakfast).
You need those.[/quote
Dire strike already has 1 round, I doubt you could knock it down.

The main class features aren't usable together until later levels. 9pp at 9th, 14 pp at 14th. Ouch. Can't use psiotheurgist on this.
CAN use Bloodlines, cutting the Class levels down to 1 or 2 !![/quote
Now THAT is something I'd like to implement. If you can show me how, I'll add it to the OP

The Alter Self ability lets you change into whatever you stab.
That's the key. It's not limited to what Alter Self normally does.
It's "limited" to what you stab.
So, stab Demogorgon (if you can).
Metamorphic Transfer then gives this guy something unique to do, without bringing pun-pun into a game.
Not bad.
Yep, already mentioned that gem =)

I prefer Ardent, and Substitute Powers.
Where is this substitute powers?
Using ardent instead of psion will give us mantles and an additional +1 BAB.  I think ardent is less useful because it makes you reliant on Wis instead of INT, which we need to fill the skill reqs.  In my opinion, the INT to skill checks is more important than the Wis skills.

Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
Re: On the usage of the Ebon Saint (complete Psionic)
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 06:26:10 AM »
Anyone see the morphean from one of the dreamscarred supplements?
I never really payed it any mind, since it's abilities can be negated by a dip into palladin, but anyone else have thoughts on that?