Avatar d20 fixes

[AfterCrescent]

I know I'm just randomly popping in here...

Katara doesn't blood bend just during a full moon. She just only does it at night. In the last episodes when she goes to find the guy who killed her mother, they show her blood bending that fire nation ship captain, but they make it a point to show the moon not being full.

[AstralFire]

I know I'm just randomly popping in here...

Katara doesn't blood bend just during a full moon. She just only does it at night. In the last episodes when she goes to find the guy who killed her mother, they show her blood bending that fire nation ship captain, but they make it a point to show the moon not being full.

Really? Been a while since I've seen it, but I could have sworn they showed the moon earlier. Hope you're right, leads to less fan fuss.

Removed the Crystal Strike application from Ice Shards, I couldn't make it differentiated enough from Water Blast for my satisfaction, it -is- just a Water Blast of ice.

Picked up on a major error in Move Earth that's been corrected: 40x900 gallons of rock being dropped on someone at 20th level. Move Water model is good. Move Water quantity on Earth is bad. So the increment is 25 pounds/2 points now for Earth. Also makes Move Earth (chucking giant boulders at people) a valid damage strategy, 20d6+15d6+10d6 for a full round of throwing boulders at people averages out at 157.5 damage. Nothing amazing, but decent for someone whose purpose isn't damage.

Also specified that you only deal one damage to someone just dropping 900 gallons of water on their head. A little unrealistic? Yeah, I'm just going to pretend the water disperses or something so it doesn't all hit on target. Can't think of a better way to handle it, even at only 1 point per you're still popping out an easy 110 damage a round just throwing water at people. Not that that's exactly good damage, but just demonstrating that if I moved the number up even a little, that attack would get ridiculous.

And added this: "They may also choose to take 20 on a single bending check by taking ten times the usual (non-quickened) amount of time to perform the check. Standard, move, and swift actions are considered to be three seconds long for this purpose. You can never take 20 on a maintenance check."

I added that in to consider King Bumi's feat in the finale flashback.

[dman11235]

Earth:

Earth Blast:
[spoiler]Fine.[/spoiler]

Move Earth:
[spoiler]For the damage from dropping stuff, it should instead follow the DMG rules for a falling object.  This prevents confusion and simplifies the seed.  Also, it avoids brokenness like the Hulking Hurler, though this is admittedly much harder to break.[/spoiler]

Shape Earth:
[spoiler]fine I think, just like water.[/spoiler]

Dirt Spray:
[spoiler]seems...weak.  The augment, that is.  Increase the frequency (maybe +1 round/+5 DC?) and it should get better, but I don't see this as a very versatile seed.  How about adding it with a cloud effect?  Also, with the duration increase, increase the base DC by 5.  Blind at level 1 is pretty powerful.[/spoiler]

Earth Wall:
[spoiler]I'd change the wording so that it says that you can create 10' square worth of wall, but it need not be together.  As in, they must all be touching, but you have four 5' squares to deal with, arranged how you like as long as they are all touching.  The augment will then be +1 square for +1 DC.  And on the immediate action one: have it go away after foiling the attack.  Otherwise it's quite powerful for little cost.[/spoiler]

Armor:
[spoiler]I wouldn't cap the NA increase, but increase the amount by which it increases.  Per 4 levels.  Caps at 20 with the same +9, but will continue into epic.

Energy augment: either have it be all, or increase the amount and allow all to be taken at once.  I suggest the resist all for 1/1.

The DR should be fine then.  That's a max of DR....20 canon?[/spoiler]

Dust Cloud:
[spoiler]I think Dust Spray should be added here.  It's not versatile enough on its own.

Reference Fog Cloud with a possible Solid Fog augment.  Also, those augments need to cost a lot less....+5' wide for +4 DC, +5' high for +2 DC.[/spoiler]

Tectonic:
[spoiler]Lower the DC augments!  Affect an additional square for +1 DC, lower by 5' more for +6 DC.[/spoiler]

Headcracker:
[spoiler]First off, plants have lots of earth in them.

Have it be exceed here.  You don't have to decide how much you want to affect before hand.  Also, the damage may be a bit much.  +1d6/4 will get you +7d6.  At /3 it's +10d6.  Before the first d6, that is.[/spoiler]

Quake:
[spoiler]Fine.  I like it too.[/spoiler]

Spike:
[spoiler]Some of the wording is confusing, and some is unnecessary.  Also, the augments cost way too much.  I'll try to go more into it tomorrow.[/spoiler]

Have fun.  I'm tired.  I'll have some more tomorrow hopefully.

[AstralFire]

Dropped Water's Capture DC down a bit as I added more Earth stuff. (Went from 40 to 30.)

Move Earth's damage is based off of Telekinesis, which I think is a bit more relevant of a model, and the DMG rules make Move Water ludicrously powerful - a single cube deals 37d6 damage when dropped on someone. Will do more fiddling in the morning. Head hurty now.

Earth Wall at 1 Square/+1 allows for 175 feet of wall (37 squares) at 20, which is enough to create entire mazes spontaneously. ... But the range is limited to 30 feet, still. Even so, that's enough to completely box the entire range, though you could also make taller walls.

Headcracker full attack (Standard, Quicken Move, Quicken Swift) at increase is +11d6 +8d6 +5d6, or +24d6. At exceed and /4 it's +8d6x3, which is the same result, though it is slightly less powerful because more of the damage revolves around the swift action. (So I went ahead and made the change.)

(As an aside, my decisions about 'increase' versus 'exceed' tend to be based on augments, particularly quickening.)

Tried to improve Dust Cloud so it can stand on its own, Earth is already a bit short on seeds (I converted all the ones that seemed useful without being largely redundant - Steady Stance is very redundant compared to the Rock Steady class feature - added a few like Rubble Wave, imported in Puppet and Earth still only has 17 to Water's 18.) Dirt Spray also picked up a damage exceed augment.

Tectonic got a range decrease with the augment decrease, so they'll be relying on their ability to cut across the ground by stacking adjacent squares more.

Spike is based on Spout and uses its augments, though I forgot to change one of them appropriately.

[Zuki]

Sorry about the formatting, I was in a hurry to get my thoughts up on the most recent version I'd seen of the Earthbending seeds. This is just the notes I wrote to myself, as I read through the document.

Thoughts:

Is there a way around the reduced movement speed of Armor, something like hauling yourself around by bending the rock or crystal? You see Aang zipping around pretty quickly in the Finale with that Crystal Armor on. It also seemed like it was presented as a moderately high-level Earthbending technique, so I was suprised at the DC as low as 15. Also, with as uncommon and good an AC bonus like Natural Armor. I'm assuming you felt that it's status as a full-round action--i.e., something to quicken and throw up instantly later on, as well as it's nicely scaling DC augmentation, were reasons to keep the basic form low. Still, it's not really a technique I see level 5 Earthbenders throwing around, but I'll live with that for the sake of sensible game balance and early access to sensible things like an Armor buff. It still bothers my sense of canon.

The speed reduction likewise annoyed me, but I guess that works as a drawback to early access, and there will be lots of ways around reduced landspeed mobility as a skilled bender. Like launching yourself around the battlefield like a spiky kung-fu pinball with Catapult and Spike, f'rex.

Speaking of which, Catapult needs an augment to use it on

Benders tend to have a lot of mobility options, anyways.
They could do something silly like use Spike and Catapult to get around.

Catapult should have an augment to launch multiple adjacent people. See Toph's launching herself, Sokka, and Suki onto the Airship o' Fiery Doom.

Density looks pretty good, DC 30 with a Reflex save looks like an appropriate way to handle the "I encase you in earth!" trick. Rock to Mud and Mud to Rock are much more fun for Earthbenders. It, like Catapult, should have an augument to target additional squares, though.

Dirt Spray looks good...the second level spell Blindness is permanent for a Fort save, this lasts one round, but can be accessed just slightly sooner or around the same time, and can do some damage as you get more powerful instead.

I like the Sandswallow addition to Dust Cloud, it adds a Sandbender feel to the seed, providing more options for players that want to flavor that way.

Earth Wall: I approve of the second augment, but while your intent is clear, the writing should probably be revised to be made more clear later on. I was going to remark that this seed should have an augment to create stronger walls or reinforce prexisting ones, but then I realized that's what Density is for.

I like Earthwalker, but as we discussed with the example of the elemental graft that grants the same ability in Eberron, I suspect it's intended for higher level players than DC 15. Perhaps a lesser version that grants a burrow speed, and a more difficult one for the Earth Glide? Or are you not that worried about Earth Glide's balance implications?

Headcracker: I like. Always have.

Ooooh, Imprison asks for a Fortitude Save, for variety. Nice change-up from all the Reflex saves, and its faster acting, and with a lower DC, than using Density two rounds in a row to trap somebody in rock. Stamp of approval! (Is it too powerful, though? I'll need somebody else's opinion. I kinda hope not.)

I don't have anything to say about Move Earth, but I've always liked the word 'shunt'. Has a great sound to it. Shunt!

Rubble Wave. Always kinda liked double-save double-binds. This looks like an okay seed.

Does 'Creatures Caught in Spike,' only apply to its originating square, or the whole set of squares it expands to occupy? I wonder if being able to make a reflex save to avoid being bullrushed weakens it.

Quake and Tectonic get my thumbs up.

[AstralFire]

I can't say I'm really worried about the balance implications of a trackless burrow, no. It's a movement mode and one that the rest of your party won't be using much out of combat.

With quickening, you can grab up to three cubes at once with Density, and it should be a harder feat to perform than Phase Change, it gets used a lot less.

Added Earth Wave - Avatar.Wikia.com is really useful, thanks for recommending it. And the beta firebending seeds are up now.

[AstralFire]

Applying for jobs is frustrating, I really wouldn't mind getting a call back one of these days...

-Yawn-. Trying to slow myself down before hitting Air's seeds. Just did the re-writeup of the Airbender class, apparently they were a d8 HD this whole time. Since we balanced their AC around this, put them down to d6, since we don't want them being boring defense monsters anyway. Used the skill list sans the things dman vetoed.

http://theanteheroes.com/Avatar%20d20/BendingChapter.pdf

Think it looks pretty nifty, used the ToB pages as a template.

[AstralFire]

Switched Move Earth to the PHB falling damage rules after I realized that while it scaled well at -20-, it downscaled broken at level 1 and I couldn't find a nice solution. Added the Boulder Toss ability for Earth to represent thrown boulders rather than mere pebbles.

Earth now has 19 optional (non-starter) seeds. Fire and Water have 18.

Circular Attack's text changed to:

Circular Attack (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, you can redirect your enemies' attacks, using their own energy to retaliate against them. When you successfully dodge an attack roll for whatever reason, you may make an attack of opportunity against your attacker, using your Water Blast or an unarmed strike, at your option. This attack roll takes a -4 penalty when you first learn the ability, though this penalty gradually disappears over time, as listed on Table 1-4: The Waterbender.

[dman11235]

Circular Attack should be just a plain old AoO.  Why are you only able to use waterblast or US?  Makes no sense.  Should be proficient though.

I've got time set aside tomorrow to go over more stuff (responses to responses), so more then.

[AstralFire]

Circular Attack should be just a plain old AoO.  Why are you only able to use waterblast or US?  Makes no sense.  Should be proficient though.

I've got time set aside tomorrow to go over more stuff (responses to responses), so more then.

I just had to explicitly mention Water Blast since it's a ranged attack, which you cannot AoO with, and forgot a waterbender might be carrying a spear around or something. Dumb me.

Prettifying up the PDF in the meantime, I'd like to think it's looking pretty pro right now. I'll be playtesting out the firebender on Saturday.

"When you successfully dodge an attack roll for whatever reason, you may make an attack of opportunity against your attacker; this attack of opportunity may either be performed with a melee weapon as normal, or with your Water Blast, at your option."

Do you think the proficiency requirement is necessary?

[dman11235]

Or a Water Whip, or some other water attack.

I should be playtesting water soon, as soon as the Ice Lands setting for SiFir fills up.

[AstralFire]

Well, the water whip is a weapon, and Octopus gives you Slam Attacks. Should be enough, right?

[dman11235]

You know, I don't think actually allowing a waterblast as an AoO is a good idea.  Unless you were to be able to make an AoO with any ranged weapon (Arrow Mind, the Falling Star stance, that one PrC that lets you flank).  Just because of precedence.

Though in any case, change the wording to match Robilar's Gambit a little more (or Karmic Strike).  It would probably be a bit better as "You may make an AoO when an opponent misses you with a melee attack."

[AstralFire]

It started out originally as a benefit against missed ranged attacks, and given that waterbenders fight from range, restricting it to melee only would kinda suck for them.

[dman11235]

I'm going to just go through earth again.  Later.  As in, probably tomorrow.  I have a good bit of work that still needs to be done before I leave tomorrow.

But in the meantime, I will be able to playtest the waterbender (hopefully) irl rather than in a PbP over the next few days.  Should be insightful.

Also, you're right.  Waterblast as an AoO should be fine.  I mean, my beef wasn't in the "brokenness" of allowing a ranged attack as an AoO, especially such a weak one, but the use of a ranged attack at all.  But the way it happens should be a perfect flavor and mechanics fit.

[AstralFire]

Where you heading out to?

Yeah, I'm also getting to test out the firebender in an AIM campaign. Not quite the same, but it's a lot better than PbP. PbP always moves too slow for my tastes... you might have gathered that I enjoy keeping activity up.

[DetectiveJabsco]

Holy Christ the PDF looks fucking Awesome!
What is being worked on right now, So I can look into it?
Sorry I have not been around life has been busy, I'm trying to find a Job
and it has not been going well (for almost a year now)

[AstralFire]

Right now, we need feedback on the earth and fire seeds.

[dman11235]

Earth I believe.  Touch ups.  And water might like to have a third set of eyes on it.  Also, bending times and maintaining times, and DCs.  And exceed vs increase.  After that, fire, and then air.  Then we can touch up the DCs and exceed vs increase and activation times.  Once we have that done, we can touch up the classes.  Then feats.  We need feats.  This step can go in before final touch ups.

I'll be heading back to where I went to high school, visit with friends.  It'll be awesome.  I actually get to play D&D live!

[DetectiveJabsco]

Is the PDF seeds section up to date?