Brilliant Gameologists Forum
Playtime! => PbP Games => Play by Post General => The Maker's Crown => : VennDygrem December 14, 2009, 03:59:39 PM
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Use this thread to discuss your character builds/ideas. This is where you may discuss what feats to take, what spells to prepare, et cetera, and where you can ask me questions on allowing custom/homebrew or third party content.
Until everyone settles on their characters and I get the teams set up, use this thread as general discussion. Pretty much the only discussion at this point is still character/build based anyway.
If anyone is relying on or hoping to be teamed up with any other particular characters, feel free to request that here as well.
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Anyone have any ideas for some good (low-level) Druid items/equipment?
Thanks in advance :)
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I should point out: teamwork benefits. If I end up in the same team as another ranged combatant we can combine fire. I probably shouldn't put my Silver Flame worshipper in the same group as the vampire though (yes, even if he's a good vampire :P).
Also, what do I do with mah munnies? :p
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I probably shouldn't put my Silver Flame worshipper in the same group as the vampire though (yes, even if he's a good vampire :P).
This would depend on whether any of you know he's a vampire. :P
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I probably shouldn't put my Silver Flame worshipper in the same group as the vampire though (yes, even if he's a good vampire :P).
This would depend on whether any of you know he's a vampire. :P
"No need to spend so long cooking that, I prefer it rare. Oh, the sun will be up soon. I'd better get in my box. Would one of you mind carrying me over that river? Just DON'T OPEN IT UNTIL NIGHTFALL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. What was that? No, I'm not a vampire honest, it's just that I have a disease that the guy with a +30 Heal modifier never heard of which makes my glowing red eyes particularly sensitive to light and for some reason never used any of my vast fortune to have it cured."
Unless someone's using this build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6614.0) you will be found out. :P
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(This is a re-post from the setup thread) I think that Improved Familiar would be a waste, since Cabinet Adept (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6663.0)wouldn't advance the familiar (it doesn't grant arcane casting). I've taken Quick Change in its place, so that I can make an advanced disguise (Standard+Move+Swift actions) in one round, but if anyone has a suggestion (See Char here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=167759)), please chime in!
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I probably shouldn't put my Silver Flame worshipper in the same group as the vampire though (yes, even if he's a good vampire :P).
This would depend on whether any of you know he's a vampire. :P
"No need to spend so long cooking that, I prefer it rare. Oh, the sun will be up soon. I'd better get in my box. Would one of you mind carrying me over that river? Just DON'T OPEN IT UNTIL NIGHTFALL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. What was that? No, I'm not a vampire honest, it's just that I have a disease that the guy with a +30 Heal modifier never heard of which makes my glowing red eyes particularly sensitive to light and for some reason never used any of my vast fortune to have it cured."
Unless someone's using this build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6614.0) you will be found out. :P
Didn't read Flay's char sheet to see what his artifact does, did you? :D
He's also using the Tome vampire template, which is different from the traditional one.
@Chemus: Doesn't it advance arcane spellcasting? It grants Adept spellcasting if you have no other source of spells, but otherwise it's advancing your warlock caster progression, which I believe for the purposes of this counts as an arcane casting class (otherwise you wouldn't really be able to take Obtain Familiar).
:)
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Aside from the +10 HP at the start, were there any other bonuses/houserules/etc.?
EDIT: Also, 32 or 36PB? I forgot...
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So, just to make sure I'm correct on the matter.
Let's say I steal the warlock's humanoid form and see the unseen invocations. They'll be stored for a minute. I decide that I really need to grab a guy who just whooshed past me on the lightning rail.
Can I move forward (move action), dimension door 680 feet forward (standard action),
and then on my next turn recharge my dimension door by burning the stored humanoid form and see the unseen (free action), move forward (move action), and dimension door 680 feet onto the train?
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So, just to make sure I'm correct on the matter.
Let's say I steal the warlock's humanoid form and see the unseen invocations. They'll be stored for a minute. I decide that I really need to grab a guy who just whooshed past me on the lightning rail.
Can I move forward (move action), dimension door 680 feet forward (standard action),
and then on my next turn recharge my dimension door by burning the stored humanoid form and see the unseen (free action), move forward (move action), and dimension door 680 feet onto the train?
Sorry, you can't burn existing spell effects to power your SLAs. I guess I should have been more clear. Once they're cast, they're cast. If they allow you to discharge the effects, you certainly can, but otherwise they're inaccessible at that point. You could spend a standard action to steal an SLA from someone else, but that can get messy in such a situation. I may let you burn action points to recharge an SLA, though I think there's a feat for that, particularly for Dragonmarks.
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I'm not saying I have see the unseen and humoniod shape active, I mean that I have them stolen but not yet cast.
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Ahhhhhh.
Well, when you steal an SLA, you decide whether to recharge an SLA you already possess (or grant an effective extra casting of it) or to hold the new SLA on reserve for the minute, which allows you to use abilities you don't otherwise have.
The free action is spent when you steal the SLA. I could grant a class ability that allows you to do what you're asking, though, since the way it's set up right now is kind of messy and you might effectively not have any class features where otherwise you would. I really need to sort of sit down and write this up in order to balance it.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter? Would it break things too much to allow TML to decide whether to use an SLA or recharge one of his own on the spot?
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Why is TML's "Additional Information" making me think of... ah yes, now I remember Evert Darter. Make sure you steal Planar Bubble (Shavarath) at some point. :p
(Or maybe I was just still thinking of Tsukihime)
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What are you talking about? They are totally different. One of them is a undead paladin from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring, and the other's a mostly human noble descended from people from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring.
Also, one of them is an obvious ripoff of Archer, and the other's a less obvious ripoff of nightcrawler.
Anyway, invisible castle won't let me log in, so here are my rolls
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2346980/
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What are you talking about? They are totally different. One of them is a undead paladin from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring, and the other's a mostly human noble descended from people from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring.
Also, one of them is an obvious ripoff of Archer, and the other isn't.
It just made me think of the explanation of Shirou's powers for some reason (particularly "mold the patterns and shape the conduits of magic"). He goes ages thinking he's magically inept, then he discovers he can copy other peoples' stuff.
I'll stop noticing these things shortly after I finish reading the LP of Tsukihime. Probably.
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It was more inspired by SCP-882 (http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-882), to be honest.
EDIT: Oops, I accidentally rolled 6 + 5d6 +d8 instead of 6+4d6+d8. I'll throw out the highest roll.
EDIIT: How are we going to be handling momentum and teleports? Seems like the most sensible way would be "pick either the reference frame of a large object or keep your own."
Basically, it would be totally cool to clothesline somebody by teleporting onto a train.
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@Chemus: Doesn't it advance arcane spellcasting? It grants Adept spellcasting if you have no other source of spells, but otherwise it's advancing your warlock caster progression, which I believe for the purposes of this counts as an arcane casting class (otherwise you wouldn't really be able to take Obtain Familiar).
:)
Warlock counts as an arcane spellcasting class, no question, but I had the impression that classes granting casting only at '+1 level in a spellcasting class...' was not counted as a spellcasting class since it has no list. And as written, the casting granted by the PrC is divine (I forgot about the Magewright, EBCS 256 (fixed the oversight)). I could be wrong about the interaction with Obtain Familiar, honestly.
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So, not knowing much about the setting, aside from common what languages do you advise?
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@Chemus: I'm basically saying that for this game you can count it.
@TML: Racial languages can be useful, such as dwarven, elven, etc, draconic, basically anything that would be useful in other D&D campaigns. However, Giant might pop up more often than some campaigns, as they were once a highly advanced, magical race.
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Well, my character works best with other psionic characters with the sharing of powers. Another kalashtar in the party would especially help, and would decide one of his feat slots. That said, if there are any psychics in his group, it would be good to coordinate powers I think.
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Well, my character works best with other psionic characters with the sharing of powers. Another kalashtar in the party would especially help, and would decide one of his feat slots. That said, if there are any psychics in his group, it would be good to coordinate powers I think.
I agree, but my powers known are very limited, and so is the list I can draw them from. I should really pick up EK: Feat Leech if I wind up on a team with other psychics, but that may open up a whole can of worms that Venn had rather not deal with. :D
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@Chemus: I'm basically saying that for this game you can count it...
Deal! (Quick Change goes back to Improved Familiar)
Ok, so Camlen has +14 to knowledge (anything, planar in this case) to identify creatures and their abilities. He can use Knowledge skills untrained. His familiar can do the same and has +5, so can take 10 to aid another. That's +16. Is taking ten for a check result of 26 enough for Camlen to know about avariel? (this would beat the default DC for a 1HD avariel by 15 for 3 special pieces of information (1 for each 5))
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f that doesn't work, try to find put about the fey'ri, who use change shape to humanoid to get a fly speed
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f that doesn't work, try to find put about the fey'ri, who use change shape to humanoid to get a fly speed
Hmm. The Change Shape ability limits me to humanoid shapes. I have to assume that outsider shapes (Lesser Fey'ri being an alternative rule, and though you and I have had this discussion before, I still feel that it's extrapolated rather than intended) are out. I can get to them secondarily through similar shapes (like raptoran/avariel) and then minor change shape, but I don't see how to use them primarily via Humanoid Shape.
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Oh, no, it's just that fey'ri are limited to humanoid shapes {change shape(any humanoid form)}, and are explicitly stated to use it to get a fly speed (40' poor, but better than nothing).
When I say it's the exact same ability, I mean it.
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Well, my character works best with other psionic characters with the sharing of powers. Another kalashtar in the party would especially help, and would decide one of his feat slots. That said, if there are any psychics in his group, it would be good to coordinate powers I think.
I agree, but my powers known are very limited, and so is the list I can draw them from. I should really pick up EK: Feat Leech if I wind up on a team with other psychics, but that may open up a whole can of worms that Venn had rather not deal with. :D
And my kalashtar only has one power, from the Hidden Talent feat.
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Oh, no, it's just that fey'ri are limited to humanoid shapes {change shape(any humanoid form)}, and are explicitly stated to use it to get a fly speed (40' poor, but better than nothing).
When I say it's the exact same ability, I mean it.
Ohhhh. Now I get it. Sorry for being dense. Well, If I can't get Avariel now (fly 50', Avg, needs about 12' of room on average), I think that Raptoran is good enough (or the risky Wings Aspect dragonborn templated critter that VennDygrem mentioned in the setup thread*just looked, and it's not as good as raptoran*) as I can fly (40', Avg) for two rounds and glide for 1. At 10 HD, I can just fly at 40' (Avg) all day (like walkin').
BTW TML, if we know that we're going to be in combat, assuming the you and I are in the same group (and I'd like to be, since you can gain power from me), you stealing my EB before combat, while only letting you use it once, would let you deal EB while I concentrate on summon swarm... Summon swarm might actually be a better option; place it and if concentration past your turn is useful, I can EB the opponents who aren't screwed. At my CL, the swarm can only be 40' away, so place it well so that it doesn't eat us ;).
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Yeah, that seems like a good idea.
Given that I'm a teleporty S.O.B, there should be somewhere I can place it.
Oh man, there are metadragonmark rods of quicken. I didn't see that the first time through.
6k for quickened dimensional leap 3/day - worth it?
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So, I got some stuff on my char (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=172487) done, but I still need to spend 4.3k gp.... any ideas for a gish?
The only idea I am still unsure abot is spending 250 gp to get 5 mw tools for the knowledges I have...
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Next level I'll be able to make knowledge checks untrained also, and I too took the Collector of Stories skill trick. I won't be all that great at the checks though, as Memhrek only has a +1 int mod. :P
I decided to swap back to my original mantle and power choices. I'd forgotten that the Time domain offers a +2 to initiative while focused. I think that while perhaps not as fun, that will be more useful than Improved Sunder. It also has excellent higher level powers. The "Empower" ability of Jade Phoenix Mage is 4 levels away, which is like an eternity in most PbPs. So I think I'd rather plan for now rather than later.
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I'm still pretty damn busy with finals and all that, so I probably won't be able to finish my character until next sunday.
Just a heads up :)
~Bowen
EDIT: In the meantime, all suggestion for (low-level) Druid equipment are more than welcome :)
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I'm still pretty damn busy with finals and all that, so I probably won't be able to finish my character until next sunday.
Just a heads up :)
~Bowen
EDIT: In the meantime, all suggestion for (low-level) Druid equipment are more than welcome :)
That's fine. I don't think anyone's in a particular rush to get started, though I'm sure the sooner the better. :D
As for equipment, a lesser metamagic rod of Extend is always good. I might actually be able to get back to you with some more useful suggestions, however.
I decided to swap back to my original mantle and power choices. I'd forgotten that the Time domain offers a +2 to initiative while focused. I think that while perhaps not as fun, that will be more useful than Improved Sunder. It also has excellent higher level powers. The "Empower" ability of Jade Phoenix Mage is 4 levels away, which is like an eternity in most PbPs. So I think I'd rather plan for now rather than later.
I'm going to try and find ways for you guys to accumulate levels a little faster if possible. Hopefully a combination of social encounters, good RPing, and lesser quest objectives will help pad the XP gained from combat.
@Chemus: You sure are tenacious on this Avariel thing. We'll see what we can work out.
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Sorry, don't mean to be a pain. You'd asked me to shoot you Carel's Knowledge: the planes check to see if avariel were known to him. Raptoran work well (better than Dragonborn) but being able to climb every round rather than up 20, down 10, up 20, down 10, etc.
@Bowen: you are a bear for six hours per day, and you have a dinosaur. Get gear for the dinosaur (armor, bracers, rings, etc.). The vast majority of your gear won't help you while in big friggin bear form. Venn's suggestion of a Rod of Extenz is a great one.
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Get a muzzle for your dinosaur.
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I don't know if it will ever be useful for me, but I'm really looking forward to metaconcert. I think my focus for the character will be "the power of many" given his experience as part of a crew and ethos of the kalashtar.
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I don't know if it will ever be useful for me, but I'm really looking forward to metaconcert. I think my focus for the character will be "the power of many" given his experience as part of a crew and ethos of the kalashtar.
It's kind of a pain to use, unless you have a crazy setup like my guy in the Death of an Artist game. The manifesting time is long, and it greatly reduces the number of actions you can take for little gain. It might be useful for out of combat stuff, like buffing with each other's powers known.
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I'm thinking something along the lines off;
Incarnate 5
Ur Priest 2
And follow that by the dual progression Divine/Meldshaper and eventually dip 1 into Necrocarnate.
thoughts?
EDIT: Venn, how do you feel about me starting with a corpse to animate?
And don't worry everyone, I'm buying an Enveloping Pit.
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I'm thinking something along the lines off;
Incarnate 5
Ur Priest 2
And follow that by the dual progression Divine/Meldshaper and eventually dip 1 into Necrocarnate.
thoughts?
EDIT: Venn, how do you feel about me starting with a corpse to animate?
And don't worry everyone, I'm buying an Enveloping Pit.
So what are you planning to do with this build? I'm going to warn you, playing an evil character in a group of mostly good and neutral characters will most likely put you at odds sometimes. While Eberron is largely a morally grey world, there are pockets of extreme alignments, and if you go around exploiting corpses for evil purposes you might get a group of Silver Flame zealots on your ass. To that extent, Karma plays a big part in the game, though it's not a moral thing so much as an overall balancer.
Also, yikes, I'm pretty sure I'm not allowing you to have a 6-headed undead cryohydra. 18d6 breath weapon damage? :o
I'll stick you guys in the Frostfell so it can't do any damage. :P
Seriously though, I'm trying to keep things from going over what I can handle. Though I'm allowing all sorts of houserules and other content, I'm still rather a newbie DM. I can deal with the Druid having a fleshraker animal companion, and some of the other tricks going on, but the more minions and cohorts there are the more difficult it is to keep track of things. I'm really not happy with allowing minions with 6+ attacks per round, Fast Healing 16, and a boatload of immunities.
You guys should be fighting things like this, not having them give you pony-rides into battle.
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I'll stick you guys in the Frostfell so it can't do any damage. :P
Except for the 6 greatswords it has for bites... to go along with its 22 strength... and 22 AC... and 70+ hit points... :hide I think that thing would probably kick my character's ass, unless I kited it with a bow or something... and I thought my character was a decent tank for his level. No wonder I usually play necromancers. :P
And hell, there's no reason you couldn't stick some barding on it to make it even tougher...
Edit: Does it have the fast healing? Is it actually awakened? I don't know jack about incarnates. I figured it had int from that.
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I'll stick you guys in the Frostfell so it can't do any damage. :P
Except for the 6 greatswords it has for bites... to go along with its 22 strength... and 22 AC... and 70+ hit points... :hide I think that thing would probably kick my character's ass, unless I kited it with a bow or something... and I thought my character was a decent tank for his level. No wonder I usually play necromancers. :P
And hell, there's no reason you couldn't stick some barding on it to make it even tougher...
Exactly why I edited my post. I approved of him playing a necromancer, but I forgot how friggin' scary their pets can be. I'm gonna have to ask bears to either find a way to tone it down, if at all possible, or find another character. I'm certain that a necromancer would make a fine npc villain, but I'm starting to doubt whether I should allow it as a PC now. :/
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Hydras are one of the strongest melee brutes to animate as zombies. As long as he doesn't fight any during the game, and you don't give him one starting out, it should be fine. What makes them crazy strong is the fact that they still get all of their attacks, instead of 1 like a normal zombie. Of course, if you awaken them for the fast healing, you go straight to crazy town with that, too. :P
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Too bad I have to wait until level 15 for Hydra Wild Shape...
Say, do Druid levels stack with Divine Minion to determine your effective Druid level for Wild Shape purposes? :P
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By the way, you mentioned hellhound for impr. familiar, but left out blink dog. Intentional?
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It doesn't have Fast Healing and debatebly it doesn't have the Breath Weapon. It looses a lot when it's an Incarnum Zombie. Also, I'm only that alignment for the purposes of qualifying. If you're okay with letting me take Necrocarnum soulmelds and a necrocarnate level while being LN then I'd much rather do that.
Incarnate Zombies are wierd, that don't work the same way. They're significantly worse. NONE of the special attacks/special qualities, and it keeps it's intelligence.
EDIT: and I'm totally willing to drop the hydra and keep the character. sorry if it was way out of line for this game, I uh, I did that mockup at 3am :embarrassed
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It doesn't have Fast Healing and debatebly it doesn't have the Breath Weapon. It looses a lot when it's an Incarnum Zombie. Also, I'm only that alignment for the purposes of qualifying. If you're okay with letting me take Necrocarnum soulmelds and a necrocarnate level while being LN then I'd much rather do that.
Incarnate Zombies are wierd, that don't work the same way. They're significantly worse. NONE of the special attacks/special qualities, and it keeps it's intelligence.
EDIT: and I'm totally willing to drop the hydra and keep the character. sorry if it was way out of line for this game, I uh, I did that mockup at 3am :embarrassed
If it loses all special attacks and special qualities, then it should only have one attack per round then, right? Or is it like the normal zombie, and keeps things that "improve its melee or ranged attacks"?
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It can make full round actions. But... hydra's are strange. They have qualities that aren't listed in there stat block.
Hydras can attack with all their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round.
Is listed in the write up.
These purplish hydras can breathe jets of frost 10 feet high, 10 feet wide, and 20 feet long. All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds. Each jet deals 3d6 points of cold damage per head. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. The save DC is 10 + ½ hydra’s original number of heads + hydra’s Con modifier.
So is this!
So, what if I just assume that both of these are Special Attacks/Qualities? Meaning, it can only attack with one head on a standard attack, and it loses the silly breath weapon. If it's still too much I'll just find another corpse.
MoI 188 is where the template is located. If the toned down hydra is still to much, anyone have any good ideas?
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If the toned down hydra is still to much, anyone have any good ideas?
Something with good Natural Armor and 1 strong attack? Maybe a Cave Triceratops or Rhinoceros?
Or do you still get to make full attacks with Necrocarnum Zombies (don't have my book handy ATM)?
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If the toned down hydra is still to much, anyone have any good ideas?
I've always liked wyverns (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wyvern.htm). I am not sure what your HD limit is, though. If you took the standard artifact, you don't necessarily need a flying zombie, either. The giant crocodile is pretty nasty, also.
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d12 HD
Natural armor increase based on size
BAB of cleric
Keeps all natural attacks and gains a Slam
Loses all Special Attacks/Qualities
Str/Dex +4
Loses bonus feats and all class levels.
Yeah, it's... weird. It's intelligent and can make full movement.
I'm working with 6HD, unless a 'Practiced Meldshaper' feat exists. In that case, holy cow Wyvern is great!
Hey Venn? Could I use that feat? Just +4 to effective Meldshaper level capped at my HD? It'd be the same as Practiced Manifester and Practiced Spellcaster.
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So, just checked my book, and apparently it keeps an Int score, so skills and feats as well, right?
Maybe get some Psychic Reformations to get some better feats on your zombie?
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So these things don't have the Single Actions only "ability"? And they have 3/4 BAB, and don't double their hit dice? Not really a zombie, then, are they? (I've never even looked at that book.) They just used the same name, like the JuJu zombies in UE. :P
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So these things don't have the Single Actions only "ability"? And they have 3/4 BAB, and don't double their hit dice? Not really a zombie, then, are they? (I've never even looked at that book.) They just used the same name, like the JuJu zombies in UE. :P
Yep. And yeah Bowen, I was planning on that :). So Venn, thoughts of toned down hydra and/or Practiced Meldshaper?
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@bears: What I'm wondering is if you take away everything that makes a Hydra special, what's the point anymore?
I'd rather you not travel around with a Huge hydra-zombie anyway, as you'll no doubt attract the wrong kind of attention, and your teammates are unlikely to be pleased with being run out of many towns with torches and pitchforks (by anyone left who doesn't automatically crap their britches upon seeing a Huge hydra-zombie in the first place :P)
What would you say to one of two alternatives:
1) Use the idea from the Necrocarnate adaptation, which effectively changes necrocarnum to a Good-aligned force, with all relevant class features and soulmelds switching to Good alignment (profane bonuses become sacred bonuses, necrocarnum zombies become Divine vessels or some such thing (gaining the Good subtype instead of evil, and other such changes), and some minor limitations on the types of creatures allowable.
If that's too goody-two-shoes for you, there's alternative two:
2) Rather than creating necrocarnum zombies from corpses by simply applying the template, we could develop something else that works similarly without granting access to anything overly powerful until specific times. This could be anything from replicating the psionic power Astral Construct with ability lists, to something I refer to as a Necrocarnum Totem - Essentially a base creature with a delayed Totemist progression, capable of shaping and using totemist soulmelds.
These would both be flavored as animated undead, but could have variable abilities that improve over time- and which can be even further improved by your artifact.
They would have a spirit form, effectively incorporeal and more or less invisible when in towns and such, but become wholly real when combat starts.
----Edit---
These would be like the above examples, not exactly. So not exactly astral construct zombie, not exactly totemist cohort zombie. Just modeled after the mechanics.
Just a couple ideas. *shrug*
---pseudo-edit----
I'll take a look into the "practiced meldshaper" thing.
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@chemus: I could have sworn I included that in my list, or one of the lists I gave you anyway. Consider it there.
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I'd rather you not travel around with a Huge hydra-zombie anyway, as you'll no doubt attract the wrong kind of attention, and your teammates are unlikely to be pleased with being run out of many towns with torches and pitchforks (by anyone left who doesn't automatically crap their britches upon seeing a Huge hydra-zombie in the first place )
That's what an Enveloping Pit is for ;)
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I'd rather you not travel around with a Huge hydra-zombie anyway, as you'll no doubt attract the wrong kind of attention, and your teammates are unlikely to be pleased with being run out of many towns with torches and pitchforks (by anyone left who doesn't automatically crap their britches upon seeing a Huge hydra-zombie in the first place )
That's what an Enveloping Pit is for ;)
Touché.
Though who's to say you'll always be fighting in a dungeon or forest where no one will see you? :D
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Do we have an illusionist in the party? :P
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Do we have an illusionist in the party? :P
No, no, no, good sir! That's not a multiheaded undead monstrosity, it's my darling little girl Bella :)
:lol
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What, you don't believe me? No, sir, it's just an illusion. We're um a traveling circus! Yes! A traveling circus! Performing across the land and bringing joy and good natured startlement to all we encounter! Yes! That's the ticket!
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Youch! An undead hydra!?
"Yes sir, that is a rotting hydra corpse walking around behind us. Well, that's a funny story, he is actually a goodly spirit that has been sent to help us in our mission to save the kingdom from the wiggly whatzits. Honest."
"I'm just sitting here minding everybody's business, with my blink dog, no... hawk, er horned lizard, um bat, oh! parrot, raven, octopus, eel, following me. I'm just a little halfling. No, I'm a dwarf. Oop, I'm a Medusa, or maybe an angel. No, I'm a demon. I'm just simple beggar...prince..."
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"Now, sir, if you'll examine the inscriptions on this conductor stone very closely while I start counting backwards from twenty three... twenty two..."
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"Now, sir, if you'll examine the inscriptions on this conductor stone very closely while I start counting backwards from twenty three... twenty two..."
*squints*
I... prepared... ex...
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"By the way sir, have you a copy of the latest lightning rail schedule?"
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Weeeeell, with teammate options like these, it's a good thing I have a decent diplomacy check, silent image, and a hypnotic gaze, huh?
By the by, are we going to decide who is on whose team? Or are you trying to find the lesser of many evils for combinations of people?
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I can read their minds and then diplomacy them into submission as well. Just have to talk in the right circles. ;)
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I gotcha, Hydra is out. If you okay Practiced Meldshaper, I'd probably get a Wyvern. If not? ummm I got some book scouring to do.
And I can't still fight without the zombie. I can shoot acid! and cast 1st level cleric spells!
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I can read their minds and then diplomacy them into submission as well. Just have to talk in the right circles. ;)
Hey, me too! Or while you do that, I can make them loose their breath for a few rounds. Crisis of Breath has all sorts of uses, especially underwater.
By the by, my character is pretty much done I think. Any suggestions of critques would be welcome. I'm flexible especially on meshing with party.
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Umm...I just noticed that the blink dog has about the highest move of any land-based creature in the SRD. With Dimension Door 1/rd as a free action at a range of 720' (400+40'xCL 8), the run feat, and a move of 40, they can go 760' per round all day long. They can hustle 800' per round. They can run for 920'. Only dragons (250' fly), can go faster, and even then only 1000' when running. Blink dogs go a little faster than 86 MPH (760/6 sec == 7600'/min). They run over 104 MPH (104.545).
Plus, if my recollection that a creature can only fall 300' in one round is correct, then they can d-door fly (up 720, fall 300; net 420' up). It's even better while blinking; fall 150' netting 580' upward, allowing for more lateral movement. Obviously, this is for very large areas only; they need at least 310' (160' when blinking) for falling while D-Door-ing.
The D-Door flight is just funny. The other makes Enniwey likely to stay my familiar for the cool factor. Opinions?
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Man, if he hadn't banned stealing slas from yourself, I could totally have matched that speed.
Too bad blink dogs have it as a (su). Otherwise I could teleport in tandem with him.
EDIT: Oh, right, I can recharge even if the target doesn't have a (sp). Yeah, I can totally match your dog's pace.
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I gotcha, Hydra is out. If you okay Practiced Meldshaper, I'd probably get a Wyvern. If not? ummm I got some book scouring to do.
And I can't still fight without the zombie. I can shoot acid! and cast 1st level cleric spells!
So you're pretty much going to be a Pokemon master? :D
Anyway, what exactly would Practiced Manifester do for you right now? You're only at 6th level, and Wyvern has 7HD, so you're not going to be able to start with that regardless. I'll definitely allow you to take the feat, but I'm just letting you know that you're restricted from the Wyvern until next level.
Also, to answer a question from earlier, Necrocarnum Zombies specifically retain all their natural attacks. They lose any feats derived from class levels or racial bonus feats; It says nothing of feats derived from HD gain, or rather, derived from character level; In fact, all the examples given have feats gained from HD. This also implies you could have a necrocarnum zombie who has class levels. >_>
Don't get too attached to the concept of polymorphing your zombies and using psychic reformation on them, or similar tricks (you wouldn't need to anyway, as the statement above shows). Remember, you've got to make sure you never unshape the Circlet which powers them, and if it ever gets unshaped (such as through Unshape Soulmeld), it becomes a lifeless corpse again. You're also subject to magic-incarnum transparency, as detailed in the book. Should your soulmeld be suppressed, the zombie temporarily goes lifeless. Don't rely on it entirely.
Did you have any thoughts on the other ideas, by the way?
@Chemus: Who knows what they were thinking. :D
Anyway, at only half your hp, you won't likely want your familiar running around in combat too much anyway, though a blink dog technically shouldn't get hit most of the time. Still, one lucky hit and it goes smoosh. :)
A blink dog familiar however requires a +5 BAB, as mentioned in Complete Warrior. A minor oversight, that book's feat has different Prereq's than the SRD and CScoundrel versions. They're technically more guidelines, and you could essentially have any similar type of creature as a familiar.
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I gotcha, Hydra is out. If you okay Practiced Meldshaper, I'd probably get a Wyvern. If not? ummm I got some book scouring to do.
And I can't still fight without the zombie. I can shoot acid! and cast 1st level cleric spells!
So you're pretty much going to be a Pokemon master? :D
Anyway, what exactly would Practiced Manifester do for you right now? You're only at 6th level, and Wyvern has 7HD, so you're not going to be able to start with that regardless. I'll definitely allow you to take the feat, but I'm just letting you know that you're restricted from the Wyvern until next level.
Also, to answer a question from earlier, Necrocarnum Zombies specifically retain all their natural attacks. They lose any feats derived from class levels or racial bonus feats; It says nothing of feats derived from HD gain, or rather, derived from character level; In fact, all the examples given have feats gained from HD. This also implies you could have a necrocarnum zombie who has class levels. >_>
Don't get too attached to the concept of polymorphing your zombies and using psychic reformation on them, or similar tricks (you wouldn't need to anyway, as the statement above shows). Remember, you've got to make sure you never unshape the Circlet which powers them, and if it ever gets unshaped (such as through Unshape Soulmeld), it becomes a lifeless corpse again. You're also subject to magic-incarnum transparency, as detailed in the book. Should your soulmeld be suppressed, the zombie temporarily goes lifeless. Don't rely on it entirely.
Did you have any thoughts on the other ideas, by the way?
Why was I asking about Wyvern? Because I somehow convinced myself that I was 7th level! That's why! Aha! Man how'd I do that? LOL Thank you fer OKing Practiced Meldshaper. This'll let me keep my zombie up to my class level in HD instead of lagging two behind.
I'll look into class levels on the zombies, but as of now I wasn't going to do any of that.
If no psychic reformation on them, could I at least repick feats that become useless after zombiefication? Ability Focus (Poison) for example. And yes, if the Circlet unshapes then the zombie drops, I gotcha :) Don't worry, I'm still an Incarnate with a crossbow (or something) under all that.
And I somehow missed the two adaptation ideas you presented. I'd rather just go with a Good aligned adaptation of Necrocarnate/Ur Priest. I am interested in the Astral Contruct/totemist idea but it just isn't what I'm looking for on this character.
As far as the pokemon master comment... kinda. How I was planning on getting bodies was a combination of divining and research. Followed by either a trip to find one, or planar ally. My current pick for a starting corpse will probably be a Foulwing (LeoF 172) with 3 bites and 2 claws and a fly speed. And I'm hoping to find another corpse of something medium or smaller for those situations where you just don't have much space.
EDIT: I think I'm going to drop Ur Priest. The Divine/Meldshaper progression class doesn't open any chakra and that totally blows (the arcane one does!) so I'm just going to stick Incarnate into Necrocarnate. Unless... what happens If I take Incarnate 5/Totemist 2? Meldshaper level 7 right? Binding to my totem would give me much better combat options outside of my Zombie. EDIT2: Damnit it would give me ML Incarnate 5 and Totemist 2. But with Practiced Meldshaper it could still be worth it I think. EDIT3: LOL way to MAD. scratching that idea and sticking with Incarnate 7/Necrocarnum X.
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@Chemus: Who knows what they were thinking. :D
Anyway, at only half your hp, you won't likely want your familiar running around in combat too much anyway, though a blink dog technically shouldn't get hit most of the time. Still, one lucky hit and it goes smoosh. :)
A blink dog familiar however requires a +5 BAB, as mentioned in Complete Warrior. A minor oversight, that book's feat has different Prereq's than the SRD and CScoundrel versions. They're technically more guidelines, and you could essentially have any similar type of creature as a familiar.
Is that a 'not yet', or an 'it's okay anyway'?
As for running around in combat, you're right. I'll ask him to hit-and-run; 40' in to bite/touch (for curse of despair...perhaps), d-door away. The fact that I get almost no benefits unless I have him with me means that that movement is most useful for fast messaging. His 23 AC (13 touch :p) is a definite problem. Need a further concealment/not there deal (Improved evasion is a definite bonus) to fix him up with. A Necklace of Natural Weapons (SS, 58) would let me add ghost touch (so that he never misses corporeal/incorporeal when blinking) for 2600gp, and +1 ghost touch for 4600gp.
I looked up the falling rules. Round 1: 150'; round 2 is 300'. No more adjustments, after rd 2, 300' per rd. Rules-wise, you have to blink d-door to a particular location, so you move 10' up while ethereal, blink letting you move in any direction at 1/2 your move, 1/2 the time, then d-door 65' higher than your current height and 717' (rounds down to 715') in the direction you want to go. You'd want a height buffer, but if you want to land, you just d-door to the ground. You can turn on a dime, as long as you don't encounter anything with a perfect fly speed higher than 165, you're not catchable in the air. Granted, you're running away.
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as long as you don't encounter anything with a perfect fly speed higher than 165, you're not catchable in the air.
Or an angry spellthief with the lesser mark of passage :evillaugh
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I guess I should build more for combat if I don't want my character to seem like the spellthief's cohort. ;)
How is is that your character can replicate my (possible) familiar's movement?
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I guess I should build more for combat if I don't want my character to seem like the spellthief's cohort. ;)
How is is that your character can replicate my (possible) familiar's movement?
Lesser mark of passage gives dimension door.
My build isn't currently optimized for it, but if I really wanted to I think I could squeeze in the two feats needed to get dimension door as a swift action. I'm currently being allowed to recharge my SLAs by successfully sneak attacking. So basically I throw an eggshell grenade at your doggie, he dimdoors away, I dimdoor after him, SNEAK ATTACK, he dimdoors away, repeat.
This is all, of course, highly theoretical, since if I miss even once you get away scott free, and I need to be level 7 to match your dimdoor range anyway.
Still, it would be incredibly cool to have a fight that takes place entirely with attacks between teleports in the air. I think that's something everyone can agree on.
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Remember, you've got to make sure you never unshape the Circlet which powers them, and if it ever gets unshaped (such as through Unshape Soulmeld), it becomes a lifeless corpse again. You're also subject to magic-incarnum transparency, as detailed in the book. Should your soulmeld be suppressed, the zombie temporarily goes lifeless. Don't rely on it entirely.
I just now saw the last line of Necrocarnum Circlet that states that a creature can't be affected by it more then once. Meaning, if one Dispel goes through, I lose my Foulwing/Wyvern/Hydra forever. If I ever want to use that smaller corpse... I can never get the big one back. That.... that sucks. How hard are you going to press on that? If it's too hard I'm going to just refocus the entire character. I liked the idea of an undead cohort that I raised through incarnum. If this means toning down the zombie or something I'd rather do that.
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...This is all, of course, highly theoretical, since if I miss even once you get away scott free, and I need to be level 7 to match your dimdoor range anyway.
Still, it would be incredibly cool to have a fight that takes place entirely with attacks between teleports in the air. I think that's something everyone can agree on.
Yes, that would be made of awesome: "Who's that dark blue dude in the spiky leotard blipping after that dog through the air? Oh Host protect us, they're fighting! Look at that...!"
only 7th level? What don't I know about the mark of passage? You get extra CL's or something?
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Caster level is 6+ levels in dragonmark heir (I'm currently ST5\DMH1). Doggie gets CL 8, so I'm currently within spitting distance of his range (plus, I can purchase rods to double my range 3/day for 1.5k. I'm seriously considering it).
Oh, next level's class features are a couple of action points (which I'll end up hoarding and never using ever), dimension leap once more\day and my choice of mount or expeditious retreat as SLAs. Too bad I can't pick off the special lists in dragonmarked, which would have given me dark way or benign transposition.
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By the by, are we going to decide who is on whose team? Or are you trying to find the lesser of many evils for combinations of people?
I know this: I am sticking with Phaedrus's Zangief big dude :P
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Well obviously the spellthief wants to be with people he can steal useful abilities from, and I think it works better of the psionicists are all together so they can use each other as sources of powers known, do metaconcerts, etc. And Risada and I have our backstories linked. That should sort some of the group placement out, as it would put me, Risada, and Tallan on the same team, and TML and Chemus on the same team (but not necessarily all together).
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So just for kicks I'm working on a back-up character (just in case ;), and I was wondering:
Aside from Overchannel, are there any other ways to boost ML? I'm trying to get ML9 at level 6...
Also, anyone have any ideas for a character that was stranded in the jungle on Xen'drik? I've started work on my background :)
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So just for kicks I'm working on a back-up character (just in case ;), and I was wondering:
Aside from Overchannel, are there any other ways to boost ML? I'm trying to get ML9 at level 6...
A psionic version of the spellgifted trait? Of course the caster level boosting items should work under transparency, but the only one I can think of is the 30,000 gp ioun stone...
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So just for kicks I'm working on a back-up character (just in case ;), and I was wondering:
Aside from Overchannel, are there any other ways to boost ML? I'm trying to get ML9 at level 6...
A psionic version of the spellgifted trait? Of course the caster level boosting items should work under transparency, but the only one I can think of is the 30,000 gp ioun stone...
Yeah, that's a bit expensive :P
Also, in case it matters, I'm trying to manifest Dimension Slide as a Move action in stead of a Standard action...
As for the trait, IIRC by RAW only spells, spell-like abilities, or items count as far a transparency goes, so no stuff like feats, traits, racial abilities etc.
Are there any (low-level) ways to negate/prevent the Wild Surge Psychic Enervation?
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Also, in case it matters, I'm trying to manifest Dimension Slide as a Move action in stead of a Standard action...
Apply a 0 PP metapsionic feat, and then apply Metapower on top of that to reduce the cost by 2 power points? It reeks of cheese though, and I can't think of any 0 PP metapsi feats except Linked Power, which probably won't work for what you want...
As for the trait, IIRC by RAW only spells, spell-like abilities, or items count as far a transparency goes, so no stuff like feats, traits, racial abilities etc.
Yeah. I meant a homebrewed version of the trait. After all, they're all house rules anyway, technically.
Are there any (low-level) ways to negate/prevent the Wild Surge Psychic Enervation?
The Quick Recovery feat from LoM. I dont' remember the prereqs.
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Also, in case it matters, I'm trying to manifest Dimension Slide as a Move action in stead of a Standard action...
Apply a 0 PP metapsionic feat, and then apply Metapower on top of that to reduce the cost by 2 power points? It reeks of cheese though, and I can't think of any 0 PP metapsi feats except Linked Power, which probably won't work for what you want...
And Metapower is capped at a minimum of +0 pp, can't go any lower like with Arcane Thesis...
Are there any (low-level) ways to negate/prevent the Wild Surge Psychic Enervation?
The Quick Recovery feat from LoM. I dont' remember the prereqs.
I'll look into it, thanks :)
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@Chemus: Not yet on the Blink Dog, unless you can find a way to increase your BAB by one. Penalties for switching out or losing familiars are lessened, though.
@bears: Dispel only suppresses a soulmeld, like a magic item. Dispelling the necrocarnum circlet only disrupts the connection, but the soul energy is still there. Unshaping it with spells or powers like Unshape Soulmeld would sever the link completely, though, and I believe that should you drop unconscious your soulmelds unshape. I'm not sure on that one, however.
Still, you're unlikely to come across any of that magic very often. If I manage to kill one of your zombies or otherwise ruin it, you will always have a chance to get another one, though not likely the same creature each time. Remember, Karma works for you guys as much as it works against you. It's a balancing factor. :)
@TML: Don't dismiss action points so easily. Remember, they add bonuses to rolls you might otherwise miss, and in this game, allow you to reroll completely if you manage to screw up on a roll of some sort (you can even expend a Karma reroll to force me to reroll a successful hit or something, in which case I reroll with IC and link you guys to the result-However, Karma rerolls of all sorts carry random consequences. Usually minor, but the grander the usage, the more severe. It will never be enough to outright kill a character, but for example, if you forced me to reroll a hit that would otherwise kill your character, that carries a hefty Karmic value. My reroll might miss you, sparing your life, but you might suffer some ability damage as a result, or take a penalty to saves/AC, or what have you.
There's also a feat that lets you spend action points to recharge dragonmark powers, I believe. That could be incredibly useful in a pinch, when you can't sneak attack anyone and are otherwise stranded without use of your powers.
@Bowen: I keep hoping someone will play a full-up Binder so I can see a range of personalities RP'd, but no one is biting. Doesn't really fill your concept though. :)
If you play a Psionic character as you're indicating as your backup, I can't guarantee it'll be on Team Brain-power.
@Flay: It's a balancing act. I want to pair characters that work well together. You guys are doing a good job in helping out with that, though.
@Phaedrus/Bowen: Quick Recovery has no Prereqs.
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There seem to be a bunch of character issues and player requests that stem from the level. While I can't just say "here you go guys, let's all just keep leveling up until we're epic level and gameplay gets boring" I could allow you guys one more level.
Would you all prefer to start at level 7 rather than level 6?
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@bears: Dispel only suppresses a soulmeld, like a magic item. Dispelling the necrocarnum circlet only disrupts the connection, but the soul energy is still there. Unshaping it with spells or powers like Unshape Soulmeld would sever the link completely, though, and I believe that should you drop unconscious your soulmelds unshape. I'm not sure on that one, however.
Still, you're unlikely to come across any of that magic very often. If I manage to kill one of your zombies or otherwise ruin it, you will always have a chance to get another one, though not likely the same creature each time. Remember, Karma works for you guys as much as it works against you. It's a balancing factor. :)
But even still, I lose any versatility. I can't have different corpses for different types of combat. What if I can't get to the corpse one morning? It's such a vulnerability that I'm probably just going to make a new character.
EDIT: 6th or 7th level? Doesn't matter much but i'd rather have 7.
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6 or 7, both are fine with me :)
@Bears: Maybe a Dread Necromancer with some Incarnum (like the Acidic Spittle shared with your familiar) if you want zombies?
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More levels means more abilities, more skilled opponents, and greater challenges all around. Sure!
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6 or 7, both are fine with me :)
@Bears: Maybe a Dread Necromancer with some Incarnum (like the Acidic Spittle shared with your familiar) if you want zombies?
I dislike the 'normal' undead mechanics. Mostly because I don't understand them :embarrassed. I think I'll read the necromancy handbook and give that a try though. Death Master or Dread Necromancer probably...
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I can definitely offer some advice on necromancers. Venn might hate me afterward, though. :smirk
6th or 7th level is fine with me. 7th would certainly make it easier for me to hit things, though, with a +1 BAB and the first Jade Phoenix Mage ability (Mystic Wrath?). I'd also be able to skip the RP stuff of getting into JPM, if it matters.
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Remember, just be cautious how evil you're going. Most necromancy isn't evil, though there is a sizable portion of it that is.
That said, Eberron is also home to the Deathless, typically Aerenal elves who are benevolent, intelligent undead-like creatures. If you want to be a good-aligned 'necromancer' then you'll be creating Deathless, in a sense, rather than undead. They possess almost exactly the same traits, but spells and effects affect them differently. Details on pg. 275 of the ECS.
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By the way, we'll go with 7th level since it seems to be fairly unanimous. Make the relevant changes.
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Aye aye, captain :)
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Oh man... I just can't decide between Stone Power and Extra Granted Maneuver now. I picked up a Crown of the White Ravens for White Raven Tactics, and took Burning Blade from my JPM level (suggestions for something better?). So now I have 7 maneuvers instead of 5, so it is more tempting to take Extra Granted Manuever. Stone Power is awesome and fits the flavor of the character very well, though, and I can more easily afford the attack penalty with the JPM 1 ability which adds +4 to hit for a power point (and swift action). Help! :P
Also, which do you think is better, Instant Clarity (recover psionic focus as a swift action 3x/day) or Psicrystal Containment (have an extra focus held by your psicrystal)? I have a lot of swift and immediate action abilities already, so I'm leaning towards Psicrystal Containment. I also have a couple of abilities that require me to spend my focus and spend an immediate action. So I'm thinking having two readied focuses and more available swift/immediate actions sounds better for me, but the other is certainly appealing as well.
And a question specifically for Venn: any problem with me using a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend, or having a custom psionic equivalent of that item? I don't care if it requires me to burn my focus, as I'll be using it for out of combat buffing, anyway.
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I honestly wasn't pushing for seventh level at all...
Yeah, action points are cool, but it's just a character flaw of mine that I never use limited resources until it's too late for them to make a difference.
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I honestly wasn't pushing for seventh level at all...
Yeah, action points are cool, but it's just a character flaw of mine that I never use limited resources until it's too late for them to make a difference.
Ditto on both counts
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I can roll back to 6th if you want.
@Phaedrus: That's fine. 3/day extend for psionic powers level 3 and under. Done.
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I wasn't griping, and I am happy to play at 7th. I was just saying that I did not intend to make problems that would be fixed by a level-up.
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Awesome Venn. Thanks.
To my (potential) party mates: I'm going to retrain one maneuver to a higher level one, since I hit IL 6. Which of these would you prefer me to have? A damaging strike, one that tries to force enemies to attack me instead of you, or one that is like Cure Serious Wounds? See below for more details.
Bonecrusher (SD3 no prereq, std, +4d6 damage and target suffers +10 to confirm crits afterward)
Defensive Rebuke (DS3 1 prereq, swift, boost, enemies attacking allies instead of you provoke an AoO)
Revitalizing Strike (DS3, 1 prereq, std, heal 3d6+IL to one ally w/in 10 ft)
I'm leaning towards one of the latter two, especially the last one (and trading Stone Bones for Extra Granted Maneuver). With a normal attack, I can do 2d8+6+1d10+2d6 (avg 27.5) by burning 3 power points (and a swift action), and I can combine that with a strike. So I think I am ok for damage, but not spectacular.
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So 7th? I'm good at whatever level. As for manuevers, some healing would be nice.
Edit: I was looking at the 4th level power Control Body. Couldn't that power be used on the caster himself to good effect?
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The defensive rebuke makes you a target in melee more often. As a squishy, I appreciate that. The healing is good, average healing what, 13+7? Heal 20 damage every 2nd or 3rd round? Assuming a hit every round, anyway. Either one, really. The rebuke seems more proactive to me...
I'm considering getting the Invisibility invocation. There seems to be enough teleportation going around for now, and my other main choices are the Charm or Curse invocations. Opinions?
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The defensive rebuke makes you a target in melee more often. As a squishy, I appreciate that. The healing is good, average healing what, 13+7? Heal 20 damage every 2nd or 3rd round? Assuming a hit every round, anyway. Either one, really. The rebuke seems more proactive to me...
I'm considering getting the Invisibility invocation. There seems to be enough teleportation going around for now, and my other main choices are the Charm or Curse invocations. Opinions?
I'm trivially in favor of any 24 hour invocations.
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OK, I'm picking up cyrite leafweave armor. The only possible outcomes are really cool.
Plus, it's slightly better than padded, and doesn't ahve aCF.
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Cyrite only works on metal armor, while leafweave is only meant to replace padded, hide, or leather-types of armor, and not metal armor, so they can't be combined. Neither cyrite nor leafweave is a type of armor on its own, only armor modifications.
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leafweave seems to be listed on its own... I think you're thinking of darkleaf (not that it matters).
Well, off to try to find some sort of kickass armor with minimal ASF. I think I'm willing to soak up to a 15% chance.
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What's your budget? Githcraft (modifier, DMGII 276) grants -5% to ACF, and +1 to concentration...costs 600gp. Githcraft Mithral Breastplate (4800gp) is...15% ACF at that point. Githcraft Mithral Heavy Shield is 0% ACF too (1600gp)
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Aha! I'll get a cyrite mithrilmist (MIC20) shirt!
It fits so well, since the mourning created some sort of horrible mist as well, and here I have a shirt made out of metal magically infused by the mourning that lets me create a horrible magical mist!
Sure, 10% ASF, whatever.
I guess I could make it githcraft, but that doesn't really fit with the flavor, so I'll leave it as is.
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leafweave seems to be listed on its own... I think you're thinking of darkleaf (not that it matters).
Well, off to try to find some sort of kickass armor with minimal ASF. I think I'm willing to soak up to a 15% chance.
Leafweave is listed on its own in RoW to the extent that it shows which kinds of armor can be Leafweave. It still doesn't extend to metal armor.
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I was talking about the ECS 120 version, but whatever. I wasn't thinking of cyrite only applying to metals, not metal substitutes like bronzewood.
Anyways, if we get that far I'm thinking my build is going to be something like
Spellthief5\DM Heir4\Blade of Orien 2.
You see, by that point I'll have a channeling rod of quicken. BoO gives Dimension Leap as a move action, so I can do a round like this:
Move action: Dimension leap!
Swift action: Dimension Leap!
Standard Action: Dimension leap!
Now all I have to do is find something that gives me an attack or something whenever I teleport. You'd think there'd be something like "Explosive Teleportation: whenever you arrive people need to make a reflex save or fall down" or "teleprodigy: whenever you teleport you're under the effects of a blur spell for a round per level of the teleportation effet" or "infested dimension: whenever you teleport you leave a chicken behind".
Because teleporting an exorbitant amount of times is going to be my schtick.
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Make it happen TML!
So, to clarify, we're 7th level or 6th level? I'm fine with either, just wanna know if my charrie's done or not (+1 lv means a tad more gp, one more spell of choice, and a metamagic feat. Damn Metamagic, grrrr!)...
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This thread is the successor to the OotS discussion thread - look at the URL to see what I mean.
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This thread is the successor to the OotS discussion thread - look at the URL to see what I mean.
HA!
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I was talking about the ECS 120 version, but whatever. I wasn't thinking of cyrite only applying to metals, not metal substitutes like bronzewood.
Anyways, if we get that far I'm thinking my build is going to be something like
Spellthief5\DM Heir4\Blade of Orien 2.
You see, by that point I'll have a channeling rod of quicken. BoO gives Dimension Leap as a move action, so I can do a round like this:
Move action: Dimension leap!
Swift action: Dimension Leap!
Standard Action: Dimension leap!
Now all I have to do is find something that gives me an attack or something whenever I teleport. You'd think there'd be something like "Explosive Teleportation: whenever you arrive people need to make a reflex save or fall down" or "teleprodigy: whenever you teleport you're under the effects of a blur spell for a round per level of the teleportation effet" or "infested dimension: whenever you teleport you leave a chicken behind".
Because teleporting an exorbitant amount of times is going to be my schtick.
Sun School tactical feat works, but requires a Monk level...(happens to be what my backup character is based on :))
Also, where are Channeling Rods located?
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Channeling rods are in ECS under dragonshard items.
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Thanks :)
*makes note for one of his many bamf builds*
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@flay: 7th, I guess.
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The defensive rebuke makes you a target in melee more often. As a squishy, I appreciate that. The healing is good, average healing what, 13+7? Heal 20 damage every 2nd or 3rd round? Assuming a hit every round, anyway. Either one, really. The rebuke seems more proactive to me...
Well... I already have four swift action abilities (3 attack boosters, and WRT) and three immediate action abilities (all defensive, but only one personal. one is 1xday, though), so I expect that my swift actions are going to be used up all the time for the most part.
I also have Thicket of Blades, Combat Reflexes, and Stand Still. So if you want to get away from an enemy that I threaten, you can just move away and the enemy won't be able to follow you very easily.
And free healing is nice. This is enough that it actually could matter in combat, too. So if you get stabbed and want to get away, you can just move and I'll try to "lock down" the enemy. If you're still within 10 feet on my turn, I might get to heal you also.
So I think I'm going to stick with the healing one.
However... Defensive Rebuke + Stone Power could be... awesome. :D
God... so hard to decide! I want both! :P
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Go with the healing ;)
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So, I have a +17 to knowledge Architecture and engineering from ranks, feat, masterwork tool, racial bonus and int bonus.
In addition, I'm picking up an eternal wand of ancient knowledge (magic of eberron) for an additional +5, and I'm going to mooch off draconic knowledge as well for another +6.
That brings my total bonus to +28.
So, having never actually used the skill, what can I do by making a DC 38 check?
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Knowledge isn't like craft; it doesn't allow you to make stuff. Perhaps design stuff for craftsmen to make? You'd effectively be an architect and engineer of great renown, but would need the requisite crafting skills, or someone with them, in order to make the dream come to life. Knowledges apparently allow you to learn weaknesses of stuff; so in a siege or even a dungeon crawl, you'd know how best to apply whatever force is available to bringing down/ fortifying walls, doors, ceilings, etc. Esoteric bits about construction should be at your command.
I looked in Cityscape, Complete Scoundrel and Complete Adventurer, and found no expansions of Knowledge usage. Perhaps in Complete Champion...
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Oh no, dragonmarked heir doesn't include craft as a class skill. At least blades of orien have it.
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Because charming folks is nasty, I'm looking at cursing them. :D
Are the majority of the cursed items in the SRD (http://dndsrd.net/magicItemsICA.html#amulet-of-inescapable-location) acceptable as curses? I mean the ones that have bestow curse as a prerequisite. What about the alternate curses from page 28 of the BoVD? This is so that my familiar has a touch spell to hold the charge of. Too bad it takes total concealment to disallow AoO's. Although the same miss chance applies...
Charming them... keeps them from attacking me, though they'll probably attack my friends unless I tell them not to...oohh now I see why Mindbender gets telepathy! Charm a dude and then tell him, telepathically, to stop his friends from attacking yours, and 'keep me out of it'. Sneaky. Nasty. I like it.
Invisibility... is a ring of invisibility for me, my familiar, and TML...takes TML 2 actions, but hey.
Flee the Scene... nice ability, but I can't match the other two bamf!-ers.
Voracious or Relentless Dispelling are handy...we have any other dispellers in the house? How necessary are they? Voracious lets me counterspell, so is probably the better of the two.
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OK, my only character creation choices left are:
a) Pick between mount or expeditious retreat as my secondary least dragonmark power. Keep in mind that I'll be able to use this as often as I want, though I fully expect Venn to slap me silly if I team up with the warlock to create an army of ponies. Leaning toward expeditious at the moment.
b) Pretty much fixed on silent image as my single spellthief SLA, but willing to change it if someone makes a good argument.
c) Artifact??? I'm not really jonesing for anything. Venn, I trust your judgment, just give me something setting-appropriate.
Anything I'm missing?
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a) If you can teleport every round, why have a mount? It won't attack, IIRC. Meat wall?
b) Daddy likes the flexible wall spell, plus more, that you have there.
c) I have my custom artifact, but I don't know what a sneaky spellthief would want for christmas Traver's Day either.
Can you already SA anytime you want to TML? Invisibility grants so much tactical advantage...but three creatures in the party can already see right through it. It is a no-save power though...
I'm torn between taking Charm at 6th and mindbender at 7th, for the ability to talk silently and at least make one enemy ineffectual or worse, Curse of despair for the ability to have my familiar hold a touch spell, and Walk Unseen for the three rings of Invisibility (perhaps with baleful eye watching us... ;))
You can tell powers are relatively balanced when you can't decide between them.
I'm taking Charm+Mindbender, unless anyone has a better idea. Thoughts on spells desired in wands/eternal wands? And I have a feat to spend on my familiar; can't decide what to choose. Help?
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I'm not so good at the sneak attacking whenever. Meh, I guess expeditious retreat will have to do for getting SA against flatfooted enemies, followed by flanking. My HP is high enough to tank decently.
Reminds me - need to buy marbles... done.
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My familiar is an excellent flanker, if that helps. Blink + D. Door means that he's hopefully unlikely to get hurt a lot.
Giving him a Ghost Touch Necklace of Natural Weapons (2600gp, Savage Species, 58) if I'm allowed to; negates his miss chance while blinking(Edit: no dice; ghost touch only affects incorporeal targets, not ethereal targets, per SRD). His move would be 30 while blinking.
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So, I have a +17 to knowledge Architecture and engineering from ranks, feat, masterwork tool, racial bonus and int bonus.
In addition, I'm picking up an eternal wand of ancient knowledge (magic of eberron) for an additional +5, and I'm going to mooch off draconic knowledge as well for another +6.
That brings my total bonus to +28.
So, having never actually used the skill, what can I do by making a DC 38 check?
Use it to find weak spots in structures and then get one of the Psi-guys to Time Hop the keystone/connecting element/weak point to weaken or maybe even collapse the thing? :lol
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So, I have a +17 to knowledge Architecture and engineering from ranks, feat, masterwork tool, racial bonus and int bonus.
In addition, I'm picking up an eternal wand of ancient knowledge (magic of eberron) for an additional +5, and I'm going to mooch off draconic knowledge as well for another +6.
That brings my total bonus to +28.
So, having never actually used the skill, what can I do by making a DC 38 check?
Use it to find weak spots in structures and then get one of the Psi-guys to Time Hop the keystone/connecting element/weak point to weaken or maybe even collapse the thing? :lol
Brilliant! I have the time mantle, but haven't picked up Time Hop yet. It will be my next power. :P
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So, I have a +17 to knowledge Architecture and engineering from ranks, feat, masterwork tool, racial bonus and int bonus.
In addition, I'm picking up an eternal wand of ancient knowledge (magic of eberron) for an additional +5, and I'm going to mooch off draconic knowledge as well for another +6.
That brings my total bonus to +28.
So, having never actually used the skill, what can I do by making a DC 38 check?
Use it to find weak spots in structures and then get one of the Psi-guys to Time Hop the keystone/connecting element/weak point to weaken or maybe even collapse the thing? :lol
Brilliant! I have the time mantle, but haven't picked up Time Hop yet. It will be my next power. :P
To be honest I didn't come up with that myself, I saw it a long time ago on the old psi-boards when first getting into psionics :)
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I can also try to find ways to make it more useful, we'll see what it can apply to.
By the way, if it were ever to come up as an issue, classes like Mindbender that aren't worth more than a 1-level dip due to poor caster progression get full (or at least improved) spellcasting levels as a fix. :)
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To be honest I didn't come up with that myself, I saw it a long time ago on the old psi-boards when first getting into psionics :)
Yeah, I've seen it before too. It's still brilliant. :D
I can also try to find ways to make it more useful, we'll see what it can apply to.
By the way, if it were ever to come up as an issue, classes like Mindbender that aren't worth more than a 1-level dip due to poor caster progression get full (or at least improved) spellcasting levels as a fix. :)
Hooray! Someone should play a green star adept! :P
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To be honest I didn't come up with that myself, I saw it a long time ago on the old psi-boards when first getting into psionics :)
Yeah, I've seen it before too. It's still brilliant. :D
Yes it is :)
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To be honest I didn't come up with that myself, I saw it a long time ago on the old psi-boards when first getting into psionics :)
Yeah, I've seen it before too. It's still brilliant. :D
I can also try to find ways to make it more useful, we'll see what it can apply to.
By the way, if it were ever to come up as an issue, classes like Mindbender that aren't worth more than a 1-level dip due to poor caster progression get full (or at least improved) spellcasting levels as a fix. :)
Hooray! Someone should play a green star adept! :P
Hey, if someone wants to play a fun or flavorful class they shouldn't have to pass over it just because it sucks. :D
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To be honest I didn't come up with that myself, I saw it a long time ago on the old psi-boards when first getting into psionics :)
Yeah, I've seen it before too. It's still brilliant. :D
I can also try to find ways to make it more useful, we'll see what it can apply to.
By the way, if it were ever to come up as an issue, classes like Mindbender that aren't worth more than a 1-level dip due to poor caster progression get full (or at least improved) spellcasting levels as a fix. :)
Hooray! Someone should play a green star adept! :P
Hey, if someone wants to play a fun or flavorful class they shouldn't have to pass over it just because it sucks. :D
OMG I love this new rule! Course, now I have to go a-hunting, a-hunting, a-hunting once again.
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Hey, green star adept is actually pretty good provided you get a scroll of incarnate construct at level 10.
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Hey I recalled that Ghost Touch doesn't affect etherealness, so I don't get to ignore 20% miss chance of blinking blink dog...fixed an earlier post
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Well, you could just turn it off before attacking and restart it - it's a free action, right?
Um, Venn, I thought I'd already priced it in, but apparently not. Can I pick up an Arcane Signet Ring (ECS 122), even though it goes a little beyond my WBL?
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Sure, we'll say it was provided as a gift for you by a diplomatic member of your house when last you visited, looking for answers as to where to move your people.
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Well, you could just turn it off before attacking and restart it - it's a free action, right?...
:facepalm
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Well, you could just turn it off before attacking and restart it - it's a free action, right?...
:facepalm
By the way, with my dragonmark focus and level up I can now dimension door 40' farther than your dog.
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Well, you could just turn it off before attacking and restart it - it's a free action, right?...
:facepalm
By the way, with my dragonmark focus and level up I can now dimension door 40' farther than your dog.
If my dog could share the spell with me, I'd be jealous. ;)
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Just a head's up for everyone. I know people will be getting busy with the next week. I think it's inevitable that this game won't get off the ground this week. As close as people are getting, we're not quite there yet, and I don't expect everyone to spend time glued to PbP rather than spending it with family, regardless of holidays celebrated. I'm continuing to work on converting aspects to make the adventure work, and trying to figure out how to balance encounters against you guys. I also thought I had someone to round out the second group, but turns out he isn't a huge fan of the PbP concept. Smudgy still seems to be interested, but if he joins in it won't be until a bit later, I'm thinking.
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OK. I hope to play sometime soon though :)
As to how I'm planning on using a Blink Dog in combat; I now have an Eternal Wand of Benign Transposition. VisaEnniway: Everywhere you want to be. (In case it's not obvious, Ennyway teleports to where you desire to be, and I switch your place and his. I'll not use it lightly for getting you away from enemies, but I will if you're in grave danger. Enniway's fragile, though he does have a 40' move and can turn blink on and off as a free action, as TML so kindly pointed out to me Edit: I'm an idiot sometimes; you want away from enemies, I TP Enniway into your spot, and he comes back as a free action. Duh.)
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Well, does give me a bit of time to solidify my sorcerer. By the way, I think I don't really like the metamagic obsession at this level for mage of the arcane order, so I'm looking to try and switch it out. We've already got ourselves a mind-bender, so no to the charming vampire; I think I'll be focusing entirely on "dark" themed spells, relating to battlefield control as before. So yeah, while I hunt through books for something tasty, any suggestions for what people in my party might benefit from? I'm steering clear of my usual favorite, the illusory-fear route, though if all goes according to plan, this campaign could get to the point where it shines.
Edit: Wow, finally read up on binders, via the anima mage. That looks like fun, but not for this campaign, since it would be Sorc 1 / Vamp 3 / Binder 3, then later going into anima mage. If there's a bind that will give me full casting for my binder levels, then maybe... buuuut Iono anything about binding really....
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Curse of the Putrid Husk is illusionary fear at its best. I like that theme. :D
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For what it's worth, I think a Vampire Beguiler is fairly thematic and gets just as much mileage, if not more, from MotAO. Then again, I'm a little biased toward Beguilers. :P
I'd love to try a Binder sometime myself, but there are hardly any good chances. No one else is running any other new PbP games now, anyway, so I've got this game to run and Phaedrus's campaign, and that's it for now. That's down from about 4 games just a few months ago. Gettin' pretty scarce here, but I'm not sure how much I trust joining up in a game on one of those other boards. I'm pretty sure I'm still one of the "new guys" here, let alone having to do that again somewhere else. :)
Anyway, if you come up with any ideas, feel free to shoot 'em by me. I'm not as good a minmaxer as you guys, so I can't recommend nearly as many obscure or alternative sources for you. Still, I'll always take a fair look at anything.
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True that, the getting here kinda sucks...
Alrighty, hold on..... does this build technically work?
Sorcerer 1 / Vampire Paragon 3 / Anima Mage 3
(1) Penumbral Bloodline
(human) Bind Vestige
(Flaw) Any Metamagic feat
(3) Improved Bind Vestige
(6) Lifesense
I can bind like an 8th level binder (albeit one bind at a time, so one a day), and cast like a 7th level sorcerer? I'm pretty sure that it works, I'm not saying it's smart to incur that wrath of karma this game. But am I correct in assuming that works? If it does, and Venn wont dissect me with meteors, it'd only require a little shifting of my feats and classes. And if it does float, then I'd assumesince I'm only ECL 7 that I'd only bind as a 7th level binder for balances sake (though that statement is kinda funny).
Basically, it fills in the feat requirements, skill requirements, and improved Bind Vestige lets you bind as a 5th level binder, but only one at a time, thus I have 3rd level binds available as per the anima mage's requirement. Wow, just occurs to me someone's probably already figured it out...
And they'd done it better. So I think I'll be going:
Sorcerer 1 / Vampire Paragon 3 / Binder 1 / Anima Mage 2, basically the same feat list with just one freed up for funness. Also, means I don't have to mess with my spells, just need to add binding and such! :D I know, technically I lose a spellcasting level with binder, but I'd think Anima mage would make up for it, yeah?
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I'm thinking currently of a character focused on Enchantment. Telepath probably. Can I use a psionic variant of Mindbender to pick up telepathy? Same requirements except manifester level 5, and it progresses accordingly?
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I suppose there's nothing wrong with that. Mindbender is upgraded to full casting progression for this campaign, by the way. I hate classes that are only good for a one-level dip, and think they ought to be fixed rather than relegated to their role.
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True that, the getting here kinda sucks...
Alrighty, hold on..... does this build technically work?
Sorcerer 1 / Vampire Paragon 3 / Anima Mage 3
(1) Penumbral Bloodline
(human) Bind Vestige
(Flaw) Any Metamagic feat
(3) Improved Bind Vestige
(6) Lifesense
I can bind like an 8th level binder (albeit one bind at a time, so one a day), and cast like a 7th level sorcerer? I'm pretty sure that it works, I'm not saying it's smart to incur that wrath of karma this game. But am I correct in assuming that works? If it does, and Venn wont dissect me with meteors, it'd only require a little shifting of my feats and classes. And if it does float, then I'd assumesince I'm only ECL 7 that I'd only bind as a 7th level binder for balances sake (though that statement is kinda funny).
Basically, it fills in the feat requirements, skill requirements, and improved Bind Vestige lets you bind as a 5th level binder, but only one at a time, thus I have 3rd level binds available as per the anima mage's requirement. Wow, just occurs to me someone's probably already figured it out...
And they'd done it better. So I think I'll be going:
Sorcerer 1 / Vampire Paragon 3 / Binder 1 / Anima Mage 2, basically the same feat list with just one freed up for funness. Also, means I don't have to mess with my spells, just need to add binding and such! :D I know, technically I lose a spellcasting level with binder, but I'd think Anima mage would make up for it, yeah?
Yeah, Anima Mage is awesome :)
EDIT: By the way, do we have any idea already about who is going to be in which group?
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I suppose there's nothing wrong with that. Mindbender is upgraded to full casting progression for this campaign, by the way. I hate classes that are only good for a one-level dip, and think they ought to be fixed rather than relegated to their role.
I had read that but decided not to go with it on a psionic base, as that heavily steps on the toes of Thrallherd(and does it worse).
Psion 5/Mindbender 1/XXX 1 is the stump right now.... anyone got any ideas?
EDIT: Telepath 5/Mindbender 1/ Incarnate 1 heading into the dual progression psionics/incarnum... Right now my saves seem to be 22 + Int + level.
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Merry Holidays everyone!
Not sure if this is the right place to inquire. New to these boards and looking for a 3.5 game to join. Might you have room for one more?
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Hmm, technically I've got room for one or two more. I have one other player whom I'm waiting to hear back from, though I haven't heard word from them for some time. If you want to try rolling up a character, be my guest, but there are quite a few houserules flying about and I'm not sure if I've got a consolidated list of them all. The most important points are that we're starting at level 7 and HD are averaged, with full HP at level 1, and 1/2 +1 HD at each level after (3 hp for d4, 4 for d6, and so on), plus an extra 10 hp on top of that. Standard WBL, and everyone's going to be getting a minor artifact to begin with. The default grants flight at base land speed 3/day, 1 minute per character level. It's meant to be enough flight to be useful for most purposes and so no one needs to feel obligated to resorting to trickery or adding templates just to gain a fly speed in combat. I'm also giving the option of trading out that artifact for one with abilities tailored more towards your character. For instance, one player's artifact acts like an Improved Robe of Professions/Hat of Disguise, giving costumes that include custom props to go along with them. One player's effectively turns their mind blade into an item familiar.
Oh, on that note: Penalties for losing familiars is lessened. I'm using the Pathfinder RPG rules on this, meaning that a familiar (or psicrystal) that is killed/destroyed or lost through other means (such as releasing it from service) does not lose its master XP, but in order to gain a new familiar or craft a new psicrystal, they spend a week preparing the special ritual materials and must pay 200 gp per level in caster/manifester classes to fund this ritual.
All levels in casting/manifesting classes and prestige classes count toward familiar abilities. They also gain 1 feat for ever 6 character levels you possess, though the familiar still needs to meet the prerequisites of the feat.
This is set in Eberron, and beyond an idea of where you expect your character build will go (you don't need a solid path, just a general guideline), I'm expecting a good idea of your character's background/personality, what sorts of tactics they might employ in battle (are they a debuffer? A trip-monkey? etc.), and any other important character details you might want to add. Feel free to PM me with any questions you don't want to ask here. I'm willing to take odd requests if they're reasonable and can be made to be balanced or are particularly interesting, including homebrew and third-party content.
The balancing factor is Karma, which I've described under the House Rules section in the interest thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6585.0).
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I would be very much interested in playing a dashing Pixie turned swashbuckling outlaw. Would this be acceptable?
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As for the Artifact, I have an idea. Would it be acceptable to allow my artifact to function as a sort of Wilding Clasp for all my equipment? That would really help with magic items and whatnot, otherwise I would have to spend an extra 4000 gp per magic item (or a +3 Enhancement for armor) I want to be able to use :P
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I would be very much interested in playing a dashing Pixie turned swashbuckling outlaw. Would this be acceptable?
Perhaps, but I'm unsure if it's the best idea for you. Those LA are really going to hurt, especially at such low level. Constant invisibility is nice, but it won't keep you undetected by everything, and eventually those low hit points are going to be quite the disadvantage, not to mention the lack of class abilities.
What's your proposed build stub?
As for the Artifact, I have an idea. Would it be acceptable to allow my artifact to function as a sort of Wilding Clasp for all my equipment? That would really help with magic items and whatnot, otherwise I would have to spend an extra 4000 gp per magic item (or a +3 Enhancement for armor) I want to be able to use :P
Giving it for all items would be kind of a major artifact. I'm going to restrict it to affecting a number of magic items equal to 1/2 your character level.
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I would be very much interested in playing a dashing Pixie turned swashbuckling outlaw. Would this be acceptable?
Perhaps, but I'm unsure if it's the best idea for you. Those LA are really going to hurt, especially at such low level. Constant invisibility is nice, but it won't keep you undetected by everything, and eventually those low hit points are going to be quite the disadvantage, not to mention the lack of class abilities.
What's your proposed build stub?
As for the Artifact, I have an idea. Would it be acceptable to allow my artifact to function as a sort of Wilding Clasp for all my equipment? That would really help with magic items and whatnot, otherwise I would have to spend an extra 4000 gp per magic item (or a +3 Enhancement for armor) I want to be able to use :P
Giving it for all items would be kind of a major artifact. I'm going to restrict it to affecting a number of magic items equal to 1/2 your character level.
Fair enough :)
Can I change which items are affected when I get new items?
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You can assign them at dawn each day.
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Nice :)
Thanks a lot :)
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But....I love Pixies! :D
I've had some people here help me out with build stuff for it, and it seems workable but the idea of a Pixie who decides to become a swashbuckler...I dunno but it just sounds awesome! Darkstalker helps against those foes who would otherwise see him. As far as I know you mentioned starting at Level 7. I had one DM who was also concerned about low Pixie Hit Die and we used the Savage Species Progression chart and he just ruled that player characters got 1 racial hit die per racial level. Perhaps something to consider but I'm not attached to it.
Not sure what a build stub is but you probably mean my proposed level progression.
Assuming a LA Buyoff we would end up with something like Pixie 3, Fighter 1, Swordsage 2, Fighter 1, Battle Dancer 1, and then Rogue and Swashbuckler levels to fill out the rest and a single level dip into cleric a some point along the way. Do you allow 2 flaws at chargen?
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1 flaw, and 1 trait.
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But....I love Pixies! :D
I've had some people here help me out with build stuff for it, and it seems workable but the idea of a Pixie who decides to become a swashbuckler...I dunno but it just sounds awesome! Darkstalker helps against those foes who would otherwise see him. As far as I know you mentioned starting at Level 7. I had one DM who was also concerned about low Pixie Hit Die and we used the Savage Species Progression chart and he just ruled that player characters got 1 racial hit die per racial level. Perhaps something to consider but I'm not attached to it.
Not sure what a build stub is but you probably mean my proposed level progression.
Assuming a LA Buyoff we would end up with something like Pixie 3, Fighter 1, Swordsage 2, Fighter 1, Battle Dancer 1, and then Rogue and Swashbuckler levels to fill out the rest and a single level dip into cleric a some point along the way. Do you allow 2 flaws at chargen?
Phaedrus has it right. 1 flaw, 1 trait.
Sorry, LA is LA. I'd like to avoid Savage progressions if possible. I won't stop you from rolling up a Pixie swashbuckler, but even with Darkstalker you'll still have to be careful. Even if at a disadvantage, enemies can still attack you, and be careful of creatures with See Invisibility or magic dispelling abilities. Also, you are not going in the same group as the SLAthief (sorry, TML!).
So what so you plan for your pixie swashbuckler to do? With so many dips, you're lucky I'm not also enforcing multiclass penalties. :P
Honestly, it sounds a lot like going with more swordsage would do you better than anything, but hey, it's your build.
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Also, you are not going in the same group as the SLAthief (sorry, TML!).
:lol
So what so you plan for your pixie swashbuckler to do? With so many dips, you're lucky I'm not also enforcing multiclass penalties. :P
Honestly, it sounds a lot like going with more swordsage would do you better than anything, but hey, it's your build.
Sounds like a sneak attack/Daring Outlaw build, relying on Greater Invis.
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I'll be interested in see how the other telepath works out. I sort of hope he's in my party so we can share powers and complement each other. I'm less mind bending, more communications and subtle utility. I could even move more in this direction. He's charming, don't get me wrong, but looking over the other powers available, and my inexperience at being party face, I wouldn't mind not having the role.
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If you're in my party, no worries. Aside from my naturally high charisma and my points in diplomacy and bluff (need to fix my skill points now that I've messed with my levels... and find something spellcasting/binding useful to spend 6k on, aside from a weapon and a lesser crystal of return. binding paimon ftw!), plus possibly binding that crying guy, I should be fine to party face us the hell out of many things...
So, while I'm fixing skills and finding fun items for 6k, what feat can people suggest so that I can boost my binding level through the roof, to pretty much ensure that my +5 (effective binder level; I'm pretty sure I can't take improved binding twice) and charisma of +4 (though I might get a +2 cha item to make it +5)aren't the only things that can nail down any bind I want.... or any person to diplomacise that I want. I'd think that a slightly re-flavored version of Nymph's Kiss would be wonderful. I mean, I am a spellcasting vampire of a noble background with blood from the plane of shadows, I'm sure there's a variation on a feat to make a particularly charismatic guy. What do you think, Venn?
So yeah, basically a done sheet in my signature under Gerand Mytos - check it out and critique, if you please.
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@Flay: You can bind any vestige you're capable of, making the check just waives the influence/apperance and such. Honestly, allowing the influence every once in a while might be more interesting. :P
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As for the character, I suppose the sneak attacking daring outlaw idea isn't bad, and certainly not overpowered compared to some of the other builds. In fact, I was almost worrying that beside a couple nice defensive abilities, it might be a little weak otherwise. Once you nail down the basics, I can work with you on balancing it out.
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Phaedrus has it right. 1 flaw, 1 trait.
Sorry, LA is LA. I'd like to avoid Savage progressions if possible. I won't stop you from rolling up a Pixie swashbuckler, but even with Darkstalker you'll still have to be careful. Even if at a disadvantage, enemies can still attack you, and be careful of creatures with See Invisibility or magic dispelling abilities. Also, you are not going in the same group as the SLAthief (sorry, TML!).
So what so you plan for your pixie swashbuckler to do? With so many dips, you're lucky I'm not also enforcing multiclass penalties. :P
Honestly, it sounds a lot like going with more swordsage would do you better than anything, but hey, it's your build.
Hmmm....it migh be better then to wait and see if Smudgy's game has an opening, since he allows two flaws and the LA buyoff...*but* while those things are a bonus, losing a level (likely the cleric dip) isn't so huge. Mostly the big loss of not using the Savage Species progresion is the loss of being able to use Otto's Irrisistible Dance, which I was *so* looking forward to using. Alas while I can afford to soak an LA of 3 or even 4, an LA of 6 with no buyoff is just too much. Oh well...
Befor I go on let me say that while I am not new to the concept of minmaxing (having been an avid Aberrant and White Wolf player for some time), I *am* new to CO as it applies to the labrynthine possibilities of 3.5.
Furthermore, my wanting to play 3.5 really comes down to me wanting to play this specific character. Actually I have 3 distinct characters I want to play, one for an Iron Kingdoms game, and the other two are open but something about what I have heard about Eberron makes me feel a more rennaisance/swashbuckling type character would fit in really well. While I see the necessesity of minmaxing (so that your character can actually pull off what the "fluff" indicates), I just really love the idea of a Pixie who fancies himself a dashing highway bandit and turns adventurer. For example, he would use his powers and such to hold up caravans and demand people empty their pockets, BUT...he only wants their lint, saftey pins etc. Kind of an eccentruc character really, similar to Antonio Banderas's Puss in Boots from Shrek 2. Fun, carefree, likes to drink, flirt, tease and carouse. It is important that he can play with characters who would complement his devil may care mishevious attitude.
Also while I am taking Rogue levels he isn't a trap finder or pickpocket but a sneak-buckling warrior.
Here is my first build attempt from the minmax forum. Note I made some mistakes but it should give you the rough overview of what I am going for and you can get an idea of whether or not the power level is appropriate, and not too strong or weak. I will probably ditch the exemplar and cleric levels, since there will be no LA buyoff and could use better help picking skills for optimal fun and usefulness!
Oh and since I didn't know if their was a spot open I haven't gone through and read everything for here yet, and also know little about Eberron (wikipedia knowledge), but I did download the book so I can read it. Then again, sometimes not knowing the seting too well is actually more fun...
Thistledown Thurbertaut
Pixie SneakBuckling Outlaw
Background:
Bored by the peacefulness of his woodland domain and seeking more vicarious adventures than the usual pranks and pratfalls of the Faerie community, Thistledown set out on his own. In his travels he came across a Ranger fighting orcs who had invaded his territory. Thistledown became enamored with the skill and grace of the Rangers movements and seeks to perfect his martial skill. He is however still a mischevious pixie and fancies himself somewhat of a highway bandit. He often waylays travelers demanding that they empty their pockets, but much to their surprise is only interested in their pocket lint, loose buttons and safety pins. These he trades to faeries who spin the lint into fine faerie garments in exchange for fermented flower nectar.
Character notes:
This character is based off of my old Rifts Pixie character and goes by the same name. His personality and speech are similar to Puss in Boots from Shrek 2, he is an upbeat and fun character to play.
Build Notes:
This is my third attempt (the first two to follow) an in many ways was the easiest and most straightforward to build. Because the DM uses dice rolling for attributes, I am using only his base skill points in this build. So obviously his skills will be higher…I could use some feedback on Skill Optimization though as that is an area have yet to cover…please tell me how I did!
He will however if at all possible have a Charisma Score of 20 (+6 racial bonus) so I can use Otto’s Irresistible Dance (as per Savage Species). A High Dexterity (+8), Intelligence (+6), and Wisdom (+4) will be helpful in that order. Strength (-4) is a dump stat.
His Shadow Hand Maneuvers are reflavored to be precision nerve strikes or in one case telekinesis (Shadow Garrote). His Dessert Wind Manevers are still fire effects but in this case magical blue-violet faerie fire. All in all there is fantastic synergy between all of these classes, both mechanically and especially flavor-wise!
Lastly, I realized at the end I made a math goof…I thought I was going to end up at CL 20 with an odd number of Rogue/Swashbuckler levels for Sneak Attack but I ended up on an even number. I considered maybe an Avenging Executioner, Spellthief or something else to squeeze in an extra die of Sneak Attack. As an odd choice I took the Exemplar PrC since everyone says UMD is so awesome. At L20 he has a base rank of 27+Int modifier for UMD or 29+Int Modifier for scrolls!
If anyone has any better ideas or any critiques at all please let me know! Maybe one last level dip into Warblade???
[spoiler]Pixie 3/Fighter 2/Blade Dancer 1/ Sword Sage 2/Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 2/Rogue 2/ Swashbuckler 2/ Cleric 1/Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 2/ Exemplar 1
Starting ECL 5
Pixie 4, Fighter 1:
-Starting HP: 10, BAB: +1, Fort Save: +2 Ref Save: +2 Will Save: +2.
-ACF: Hit and Run Tactics (give up Heavy Armor and Shield Proficiencies in exchange for +2 Initiative and Dex to Damage vs. Float Footed Opponents!)
-Feats: Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Magic in The Blood, Darkstalker, Flyby Attack
-Skills: Bluff 8, Hide 4, Move Silently 6, Spot 2, Swim 2, Listen 2, Search 2
Languages: Common, Sylvan
-Pixie Stuff:
+1 Size Bonus AC, +1 Size Bonus to Attack Rolls, + 4 Size Bonus to Hide checks, Land Speed 20, Fly Speed 60 (good), Low Light Vision, +2 to Spot Search and Listen checks, Greater Invisibility at Will, Craft Arrows of Sleep and Memory Loss (as per Savage Species),
Spell Like abilities: Dancing Lights, Detect Chaos/Law/Good/Evil, Entangle, Detect Thoughts, Dispel Magic, Confusion (by touch), Permanent Image (Visual/Auditory), Polymorph Self, Otto’s Irresistible Dance
…all at 3x/Day with a starting caster level of 4 and his Cha modifier to the DC save…
Moving On!
Fighter 2 (ECL 6):
BAB: +2, Fort Save: +3 Ref Save: +2, Will Save: +2
Feats: Mobility, Improved Flyby
Skills: Bluff 9, Hide 5
Battle Dancer 1 (ECL 7)
BAB: +3, Fort Save: +3 Ref Save: +4 Will Save: +2
Unarmed Strike (1d4 Damage), + Charisma Bonus to AC
Skills: Sleight of Hand 4
Sword Sage 1 (ECL 8)
BAB: +3, Fort Save: +3 Ref Save: +6 Will Save: +4
+3 to Initiative, Weapon Focus (Short Sword)
Stance: Island of Blades
Maneuvers: Shadow Garrote, Strength Draining Strike, Bloodletting Strike, Obscuring Shadow Veil, Death Mark, Zephyr Dance.
Skills: Intimidate 4, Sleight of Hand 6
Sword Sage 2 (ECL 9)
BAB: +4, Fort Save: +3, Ref Save: +7 Will Save: +5
+ Wisdom Bonus to AC (Even vs. Touch attacks or while flat footed)
Stance: Assassin’s Stance (Yay! Sneak Attack +2d6!)
Maneuver: Lingering Inferno
Feat! Shadow Blade
Skills: Intimidate 6, Sleight of Hand 10
Rogue 1 (ECL 10)
BAB +4, Fort Save: +3, Ref Save: +9, Will Save: +5
Sneak Attack +3d6, Trapfinding
Skills: Use Magic Device 8
Swashbuckler 1 (ECL 11)
BAB: +5, Fort Save: +5 Ref Save: +9, Will Save +5
Weapon Specialization (Short Sword)
Skills: Diplomacy 4
Swashbuckler 2 (ECL 12)
BAB: +6/+1 Fort Save: +6, Ref Save: +9, Will Save: +5
Grace: +1 Ref Saves, Sneak Attack +4d6
Feat! Daring Outlaw
Skills: Diplomacy 7, Intimidate 7
Rogue 2 (ECL 13)
BAB +7, Fort Save: +5, Ref Save +10, Will Save +5
Evasion
Skills: Use Magic Device: 16
Rogue 3 (ECL 14)
BAB: +8, Fort Save: +6 Ref Save: +10, Will Save: +6
ACF: Penetrating Strike (Sacrifice Trapsense for half SA damage to immune creatures)
Swashbuckler ACF: Shield of Blades (Sacrifice designated Swashbuckler Dodge bonus for +2 AC Shield Bonus when attacking with two-weapons).
Sneak Attack +5d6
Skills: Use Magic Device 17, Bluff 10, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 10
Swashbuckler 3 (ECL 15)
BAB: +9, Fort Save: +6, Ref Save: +11, Will Save: +7
Insightful Strike (+Intelligence Modifier to Damage)
FEAT! Two Weapon Fighting
Skills: Use Magic Device: 18, Move Silently 9
-Level Adjustment Buyoff!-
Pay 15,000 experience and stay at Level 15 when otherwise would have advanced to 16
(ECL 15)
Cleric 1 (Fharlanghn God of Roads) (ECL 16)
BAB: +9, Fort Save: +8, Ref Save: +11, Will Save: +9
Domains (Power Granted): Luck (reroll once/day), Travel (Freemovement 1/Day)
Cleric Spells Level 1 (And can Heal Self a bit when needed!), Rebuke Undead
Skills: Use Magic Device: 19, Move Silently 10
Rogue 4 (ECL 17)
BAB +10, Fort Save: +8, Ref Save: +12, Will Save +9
Sneak Attack +6d6, Uncanny Dodge
Skills: Use Magic Device: 20, Bluff 13, Intimidate 13, Diplomacy 13
Swashbuckler 4 (ECL 18)
BAB: +11/+2 attacks, Fort Save +9, Ref Save: +12, Will Save: +9
FEAT! Great Flyby Attack!
Skills: Use Magic Device 21, Bluff 14, Intimidate 14, Diplomacy 14
Swashbuckler 5 (ECL 19)
BAB+12 Fort Save: +9, Ref Save: +12, Will Save: +9
Sneak Attack +7d6
Skills: Use Magic Device 22, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 15, Intimidate 15
Exemplar 1 (ECL 20)
BAB: +12, Fort Save: +9, Ref Save: +12, Will Save: +11
Skill Artistry (Use Magic Device), Skill Mastery (Use Magic Device)
Skills: Use Magic Device 23, Decipher Script 5, Move Silently 12
Sources Used:
Player’s Handbook
Monster Manual 1
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Drow of the Underdark
Dragon Compendium
Tome of Battle
Complete Warrior
Complete Adventurer
Complete Scoundrel
Lords of Madness
Players Guide to Faerun
Player’s Handbook 2
[/spoiler]
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That's... quite extensive. It still reflects the savage progressions idea, and the other game you built it for, but I get the idea of it.
The "LA is LA" statement merely meant to reflect that i wasn't allowing the savage progression. You can still buy off the LA, but since it's so high you won't be able to until level 12.
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Unless you need the IL for the build, I suggest taking a level of swordsage earlier. As it is, you're pretty useless at level 7.
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Thanks! It was my "worksheet" which is why it is detailed level by level. And class level 12 is ECL 16...sometimes the LA rules get confusing. Good to know about the buyoff though...prob can dip that cleric after all!
What is IL? Did you mean improved flyby? That is a handy one since it avoids getting AoO when I flyby but it isn't essential. For this game I might do something like:
Fighter 1/Swordsage 2/Fighter 1/Battle Dancer 1/Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 2/Rogue 2/Cleric 1/and then alternate Rogue and Swashbuckler to taste for the final 6...
Is good no? :D
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Also, I am used to very writerly or prose-worthy PbP, with a good emphasis on character development and interaction....where does the group see the balance falling in this game? As a dashing ne'r do well, I can see my character getting involved in affairs of court and politics, hobnobbing in high society at a certain point and undertaking important missions for the crown (as it were)...
Who would be the other PCs in my group? Are the groups working against each other? Will we ever meet and interact or is it really two seperate games?
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This is going to be two separate groups running the same campaign. That's going to cut down on paperwork quite bit, though I plan on mixing it up with some slight modifications to encounter design and such, so you can't figure out everything just by peeking at the other group's interactions. The campaign's final conflict isn't set yet, so it may necessitate bringing the two groups together, but not likely. Mostly, I'm interested in seeing how different groups of characters interact with the campaign. I expect to see you guys handle situations differently, which should be interesting as well. I don't want to railroad you guys, so while there will always be important goals to keep in mind, how you go about achieving them will be primarily up to you.
There should be plenty of chance for roleplaying, and a lot of combat situations can be avoided entirely by talking your way out of them, or finding other creative approaches. The more creative you guys are, the more XP you'll land- likely even more than what you'd gain out of the combat encounter.
That said, expect to find yourselves in combat that you can't avoid, especially against any enemies of lower intelligence or who are more predisposed to simply attacking. Very little is as it seems in Eberron, and morals do not run black and white. You may well find yourself allying yourself with a Chaotic Good Red Dragon against a Lawful Evil Silver Dragon, for instance. As such, alignment still exists, but it may not be what you expect. Likewise, you may find that even though someone technically registers as Evil, that it is not in your best interests to attack them, and that they will not automatically want you killed, either.
I encourage you to read up on Eberron, at least as far as pertains to your character and their background.
Thistle, I'll be PMing you about your background. You said you're not very familiar with the campaign setting, so I'll give you a few points that you may want to implement.
Also, IL stands for Initiator Level- This is what governs how potent your swordsage (or other martial adept class) maneuvers and stances are. Likewise, CL stands for Caster Level, ML for manifester level, and so on for similar types of casters or anyone with powers dependent on level.
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Hmmm....Interesting. Two groups, same campaign. Are these alternate dimensions or is it really one world with two distinct groups going after the same prize? Do you have enough material to take us all the way to L20?
Ah yes, Initator level. I am diping swordsage for the maneuvers and especially for Shadow Stance to get a li'l extra sneak attack action. If you must fight in melee it's always nice to have tactical options aside from just full attacking each round.
Who will be the other players on my team? I suppose we ought to get aquainted. Do you run "prologues" for each character to help us immerse in the role before joining the others? What will bring us together as a team?
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You guys are already together as a team, as noted in the General Player Knowledge thread. You've been hired by Bordrek Stonefist, your patron, to find information leading to the legendary artifact known as 'the Maker's Crown.' It's up to each player what their character's motivations are for taking on the job, and you may find that even your teammates might have ulterior motives. I've already spoken to those individuals about this. Generally their background allows for an alternate motive besides fame and riches. These may become apparent over the course of gameplay, but will be secret to begin with.
Remember that you can only take level 1 stances at first level of any martial adept class, so you're going to need to have an IL of at least 5 for Assassin's Stance, which means you'll need to position those Swordsage levels very precisely so that you've got a high enough IL for it. Non-martial-adept classes only count for 1/2 IL, so that Swordsage 1/Fighter 4 is character level 5, but only has an IL of 3, for instance. This is mentioned on page 39 of Tome of Battle.
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Ah yes, I knew there was a reason for my initial progression. I had forgotten about that part. Also using the Savage Species allowed the Pixie levels to count so we have to do away with those. Hmmm...makes it harder to do by 7th level.
With no Pixies levels to count and needing the second level of SS for AS at an Initiator level of 5, that means I need 6 levels of non Sword Sage before I get there. Crap. Hmmm....
Could go Fighter 1, Battle Dancer 1, Swordsage 1, which according to bearsarebrown would make me more useful at 7th level. Does that sound better? Then I would have to take Fighter 1, Rogue 1 Swashbuckler 2 and THEN the second level of Swordsage for Assassin's stance. Add swashbuckler and Rogue levels to taste with the cleric dip thrown in their at some appropriate moment.
Will have to refigure out the FEAT progressions accordingly as well which I am not at liberty to do as of this post.
Must be why I love this game, character creation is so challenging! Will probably need help with skill selection and Wealth/magic items as well since we apparently start with some...
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By the way, where are you getting Battle Dancer from?
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Ah, that was a helpful suggestion from the CO-forum guys. It is from the Dragon Compendium (I DL'ed just about every DnD book ever published, please don't hate me!).
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Which group would I be in and what are the other PCs?
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It's from dragon compendium, it's sort of like a monk except cha-based and slightly more useful.
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I'm still working on player rosters.
Battle Dancer looks fine, just a way to put your Cha to work for you. I doubt the unarmed strike will really be put to use, so there's little else to it. You probably won't hit for much damage, but you'll be tough to hit at all. I might even recommend trying to focus your build on stealthy use of AoO's, if you aren't already.
Also, don't be so nonchalant about downloading copyrighted material. This isn't WotC, but it's just as illegal. Just don't say where you got access to your materials and everything should be fine.
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Once he gets to Swashbuckler 3 and Swordsage 2 he will end up doing a fair amount of damage especially from flyby sneak attacks...
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You don't want to rely entirely on Sneak Attacks. Constructs and many other creatures are immune or at least resistant to sneak attacks, and even variants that allow you to deal half SA damage, that still cuts down your potential. Always have a backup plan. :)
Which reminds me; Please remember to request any third party or homebrew materials, and also make sure to request alternate class features and such. Do not automatically assume I'm allowing everything. Assume that I am not allowing something, and ask to have it included. This will prevent incidents where I don't catch something that I would otherwise disallow.
Also, as a general rule, if you guys either can't afford to, aren't able to, or otherwise don't want to resurrect a fallen character, you're free to roll up a new one using the same rules for character creation, at whatever the current character level is. I won't allow you to simply make a copy of the dead character, but you get the idea. The same thing goes for if you get tired of a character. You can switch it out, swapping one character for the other. At that point I'll work with you to bring the new character into the game as seamlessly as possible. This doesn't mean you can have a revolving door of characters, but if you get tired of a build and really want to try a new one, I'm not going to really penalize you. You guys are supposed to have fun, and you can't do that if you're burned out on your character.
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Why not? A Rogue would rely on Sneak Attacks and this is really a Rogue varient. I would suggest not making my character the main melle/frontline character. Think of him more as a skirmisher and scout with some handy magical tricks up his sleeve...which is another thing...there are many ways to win a battle outside of just stacking on damage. Wits, clever use of the environment, and outhinking your opponenent are always viable options. Sort of like how Spiderman can deal with Juggernaut even though he can't actually damage him. Also the fun for this character is being a force of personality and humor as much as it is combat effectiveness, though I would like to carry my weight as it were. Death Mark is a handy maneuver... ;)
Oh and the two alternate class features I am requesting are Hit and Run Tactics (from Drow of the Underdark) for Fighter and Shield of Blades for Swashbuckler from (I think), Unearthed Arcana.
Oh boy! Starting to excited that I can actually play my Pixie! Yay!
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I'm taking the three telepath sub levels from RoE. Hope it is ok.
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Lesser Aasimar is the only variant I'm currently using IIRC, hope that's okay as well :)
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Why not? A Rogue would rely on Sneak Attacks and this is really a Rogue varient. I would suggest not making my character the main melle/frontline character. Think of him more as a skirmisher and scout with some handy magical tricks up his sleeve...which is another thing...there are many ways to win a battle outside of just stacking on damage. Wits, clever use of the environment, and outhinking your opponenent are always viable options. Sort of like how Spiderman can deal with Juggernaut even though he can't actually damage him. Also the fun for this character is being a force of personality and humor as much as it is combat effectiveness, though I would like to carry my weight as it were. Death Mark is a handy maneuver... ;)
Oh and the two alternate class features I am requesting are Hit and Run Tactics (from Drow of the Underdark) for Fighter and Shield of Blades for Swashbuckler from (I think), Unearthed Arcana.
Oh boy! Starting to excited that I can actually play my Pixie! Yay!
I already mentioned why not. That very reason is why a core-only rogue is shut down so easily in most campaigns and isn't listed among the best classes.
I understand what you mean about alternative-thinking in combat, but you can't apply those elements to D&D combat so easily. This isn't a comic book where you can just draw the character beating the enemy through wits alone. You can't fast-talk a Bulette into not attacking you, or into giving up some weakness.
Shield of Blades is from PHB2 and is fine.
Hit-and-Run Tactics is supposed to be specifically for Drow fighters, but I'd be ok adapting it to Fey fighters instead so you can get some extra damage in.
@tallan and Bowen: I think we've already gone over those issues. I was speaking more-so specifically to Thistle since he seemed to be making a lot of assumptions as to what I would allow in his build without specifically asking if they were ok.
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Okidoki :)
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I'm playing an elven lightning warrior with a uranium katana. I hope I mentioned that before...
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:P
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I'm playing an elven lightning warrior with a uranium katana. I hope I mentioned that before...
I don't see why he wouldn't allow it. After all, even if you're horribly underpowered, the combination oozes with more flavor than a fudge-covered Juiblex Sundae.
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I don't understand why you're going with the overpowered elf. Everyone knows the feats you get as an elf are only for munchkins. I recommend that you take Lesser Fey'ri; elfy flavor but only a few SLA's and shapechanging.
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I don't understand why you're going with the overpowered elf. Everyone knows the feats you get as an elf are only for munchkins. I recommend that you take Lesser Fey'ri; elfy flavor but only a few SLA's and shapechanging.
Yeah, greater Fey'ri can be broken pretty well, but their lesser kindred are not nearly as good. Those racial bonuses against poison and electricity are really useful, though.
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I'm playing an elven lightning warrior with a uranium katana. I hope I mentioned that before...
I don't see why he wouldn't allow it. After all, even if you're horribly underpowered, the combination oozes with more flavor than a fudge-covered Juiblex Sundae.
Right. At least I don't have one of those overpowered familiars. Most of your hit points come from Con, so that d20 hit die isn't nearly as good as it looks.
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I'm playing an elven lightning warrior with a uranium katana. I hope I mentioned that before...
Wow. An Elf...so suboptimal of you! ;) :D
In any case remind me to get my +3 armor of lead shielding on whenever you are around.
I already mentioned why not. That very reason is why a core-only rogue is shut down so easily in most campaigns and isn't listed among the best classes.
I understand what you mean about alternative-thinking in combat, but you can't apply those elements to D&D combat so easily. This isn't a comic book where you can just draw the character beating the enemy through wits alone. You can't fast-talk a Bulette into not attacking you, or into giving up some weakness.
Well 1/2 damage via penetrating strike is better than no damage. And in the case of the bulette, you could choose not to fight it, avoid it, draw it off with some other distraction (like a fast flying pixie...) while the rest of the party sneaks around, etc. etc...
Hit-and-Run Tactics is supposed to be specifically for Drow fighters, but I'd be ok adapting it to Fey fighters instead so you can get some extra damage in.
Actually the person who referred me to that ACF said specifically that there is nothing about it that *has* to be particular only to Drow fighters and that anyone who uses that style of fighting would be eligible. Glad you are on board with the idea though and it seems the kind of tactic a faerie fighter would use...
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You may want to brush up on sarcasm. :P
Anyway, penetrating strike is another thing you didn't ask about for inclusion (even the second time), but again I'll allow it.
And that Bulette might not just charge after you if you're trying to catch its attention. It may simply charge after slower-moving prey. I'm not going to go too far into this as we're operating strictly in the hypothetical, but be prepared to think about each situation carefully.
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Ok, I think I figured out who's with who. If you guys see a conflict due to compatibility or background, please PM me rather than posting in here, since some of you have secret background info.
Group A:
Phaedrus
Risada
Tallan
Prime
Thistle
Group B:
Bowen
bears
Flay
TML
Chemus
Also, if you guys want to come up with a specific name for your group rather than Group A or B, feel free, and I'll change accordingly.
Bears has mentioned he's ditching the Necrocarnate for a Telepath Psion for now. I figured Group A doesn't need two telepath Psions, even if they could share powers. Don't want to overload on squishy PC's, anyway.
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Group B? I refuse such a term.
We're Group 1.
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Group A:
Phaedrus (illumian psychic crusader)
Risada (illumian duskblade)
Tallan (kalashtar telepath)
Prime (kalashtar soulbow)
Thistle (pixie swashbuckler)
So... is the pixie a Sarlonan refugee, too? :P
Was just looking over character sheets. Prime, those +2 items cost 4000 gp, not 2000, unless you crafted them yourself or something. (I wish they were 2000...)
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Heh, I guess that's up to Thistle. :D
Seriously though, not everyone has to be from the same place. None of you needs to be from Sarlona, it's just the most appropriate place.
Also, thanks for pointing that out. I'll be checking the charsheets more thoroughly once I know everyone's just about done. As it is, I've noticed there are quite a few changes that still haven't been reflected in the character sheets yet.
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Camlen's familiar gets a feat at 6th level. I'm pretty much at a loss as to what he should get; any good ideas?
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Camlen's familiar gets a feat at 6th level. I'm pretty much at a loss as to what he should get; any good ideas?
Obtain familiar.
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Camlen's familiar gets a feat at 6th level. I'm pretty much at a loss as to what he should get; any good ideas?
Dark Stalker. Hidden Talent. Bind Vestige. Martial Study.
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Camlen's familiar gets a feat at 6th level. I'm pretty much at a loss as to what he should get; any good ideas?
Obtain familiar.
Heh. Too bad he doesn't have an arcane caster level or three. That would be fun(ny)!
Dark Stalker. Hidden Talent. Bind Vestige. Martial Study.
Of course. I am shamed. Good ideas!
Thanks guys!
Edit: Hidden Talent: Conceal thoughts?
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Camlen's familiar gets a feat at 6th level. I'm pretty much at a loss as to what he should get; any good ideas?
Obtain familiar.
Heh. Too bad he doesn't have an arcane caster level or three. That would be fun(ny)!
Magical training, my friend. Magical training.
You get a feat for level three, right?
Wait a sec... you have spellcaster level 7. IF you picked planar familiar instead of improved, you could have a mephit.
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Shape Soulmeld could also be incredibly useful, and doesn't have any requirements. Your familiar can't really take Bind Vestige since he's incapable of performing the rituals involved in summoning and binding said vestige, and vestiges aren't going to want to bind with most non-humanoid creatures anyway. Hidden Talent could work, but would likely be of limited use [though I'd have to specifically waive the prerequisite of taking it only at level 1]. Shape Soulmeld, on the other hand, lasts all day.
@TML: Actually, familiars and psicrystals in this campaign will only gain a feat for every 6 character levels of the owner, rather than one at every 3 levels that PCs get.
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I'm in the mood to steal creative ideas from other sources.
I'm hoping that just about everyone is taking a custom artifact. These aren't like normal artifacts, as they give you powers/abilities based on inner spirit. Beyond the abilities I've already spoken with you all about, you can use a free action to summon a special weapon, which is a manifestation of your spirit. They function as a +1 weapon of a sort which your character is proficient in. This can be enchanted as a normal weapon of its sort can. You call the weapon with a command word, and can store it with another command word (as though sending it to an extradimensional space). If you'd rather, you can instead choose for this to be a shield made of magical energy granting that same enhancement bonus to AC as a shield bonus, and with no ACP. Basically, I don't want casters to feel left out by having to be stuck with a weapon they're unlikely to use. You could also choose for it to still appear as a weapon, but grant the shield bonus, though it gains no enhancement bonus to attacks made with it. In this case, it is just the same shield but in a different visual form.
You all decide what this looks like, and it would be great if you all came up with a name for said item. It should be a reflection of your inner self, so if you're a defensive melee tank, perhaps it manifests as a broad longsword named Iron Mountain; a sneaky character might manifest a dark-hued rapier named Ebon Stalker; A caster/manifester might manifest a shield in a shape like the Triforce (http://allyourinternets.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/triforce1.jpg) called Third-Eye Shield, simply a quarterstaff, dagger, gauntlet, or what-have-you that they use to deflect attacks; etc.
Just as your artifacts' powers grow over time, so will your weapon/shield.
Perhaps it seems stupid, but I like the idea. :shrug
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Do they get a first level feat as well, or not.
Because I just thought of how awesome a spellfire-spewing familiar would be.
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Shape soulmeld! Grawr! (Edit: damn! Req. Con 13)
Also, I don't think customizing creature's feats is allowed by core; you get the critter as in the description, adjusted by the familiar abilities, unless given special dispensation by the DM ( :bigeyes)
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Again, no first level feat. They get one at 6, 12, and 18. That's it. Everything else is as normal for a familiar or psicrystal (remember, this was done to clear up confusion over whether psicrystals get feats or not from being constructs).
Also, see my last post for edited content.
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Shape soulmeld! Grawr! (Edit: damn! Req. Con 13)
Really? Damn, forgot about that. Oh well. :/
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Aw crap!
Seeing as how I was reminded of Initiator levels, I went back and checked on my maneuvers. MOst of them I get at Swordsage 1, but it gets really confusing since maneuvers have both prerequisites in terms of maneuvers known and IL....sigh...it doesn't help either the way WOTC lists them all in Alphabetical order rather than "level"....it took me forever to figure out the naeuvers I wanted...and now I can't take them unless I postpose swordsage ALO...the thing is I am very specific aboput which maneuvers I want and retraining just sounds dumb to me. In order to take a Level 5 power at SS 1, I need 16 levels from other classes to have an IL of 9 with SS1. Seeing as how I want SS 2 am dealing with a bought off LA of 3, that just won't work period. Looks like I am limited to Level 4 maneuvers in this build requiring 12 class levels before SS1. That would put me at an ECL of 16 including the xp lost for the buyoff at CL 12....pretty late in the game.
Okay let's limit myself to a max of L3 for maneuvers. That gets more reasonable, needing *only* 8 class levels before SS1 and an ECL of 13 (pre buyoff).
Being able to use Savage Species here would *really* help in terms of level since the racial levels could theoretically add to IL. As is my build will have to look something more like this:
Fighter 2, Battle Dancer 1, Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3, Rogue 1, Swordsage 2, Rogue and SB levels to taste.
That's about as good as I can manage without racial levels and still get the maneuvers I want with SS1.
I am fine with it but someone suggested that a Pixie Fighter 2, Battle Dancer 1 would be next to useless in this group. I am inclined to disagree given some handy creative SLA's not to mention magic arrows, but if you guys have any better suggestions for progression I am open to it.
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...you can use a free action to summon a special weapon, which is a manifestation of your spirit. They function as a +1 weapon of a sort which your character is proficient in. This can be enchanted as a normal weapon of its sort can. You call the weapon with a command word, and can store it with another command word (as though sending it to an extradimensional space). If you'd rather, you can instead choose for this to be a shield made of magical energy granting that same enhancement bonus to AC as a shield bonus, and with no ACP. Basically, I don't want casters to feel left out by having to be stuck with a weapon they're unlikely to use. You could also choose for it to still appear as a weapon, but grant the shield bonus, though it gains no enhancement bonus to attacks made with it. In this case, it is just the same shield but in a different visual form.
You all decide what this looks like, and it would be great if you all came up with a name for said item. It should be a reflection of your inner self, so if you're a defensive melee tank, perhaps it manifests as a broad longsword named Iron Mountain; a sneaky character might manifest a dark-hued rapier named Ebon Stalker; A caster/manifester might manifest a shield in a shape like the Triforce (http://allyourinternets.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/triforce1.jpg) called Third-Eye Shield, simply a quarterstaff, dagger, gauntlet, or what-have-you that they use to deflect attacks; etc.
Just as your artifacts' powers grow over time, so will your weapon/shield...
That adjustment just saved me 1620 GP on my Car Insurance! WBL! I might be able to afford...something-or-other!
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Aw crap!
Seeing as how I was reminded of Initiator levels, I went back and checked on my maneuvers. MOst of them I get at Swordsage 1, but it gets really confusing since maneuvers have both prerequisites in terms of maneuvers known and IL....sigh...it doesn't help either the way WOTC lists them all in Alphabetical order rather than "level"....it took me forever to figure out the naeuvers I wanted...and now I can't take them unless I postpose swordsage ALO...the thing is I am very specific aboput which maneuvers I want and retraining just sounds dumb to me. In order to take a Level 5 power at SS 1, I need 16 levels from other classes to have an IL of 9 with SS1. Seeing as how I want SS 2 am dealing with a bought off LA of 3, that just won't work period. Looks like I am limited to Level 4 maneuvers in this build requiring 12 class levels before SS1. That would put me at an ECL of 16 including the xp lost for the buyoff at CL 12....pretty late in the game.
Okay let's limit myself to a max of L3 for maneuvers. That gets more reasonable, needing *only* 8 class levels before SS1 and an ECL of 13 (pre buyoff).
Being able to use Savage Species here would *really* help in terms of level since the racial levels could theoretically add to IL. As is my build will have to look something more like this:
Fighter 2, Battle Dancer 1, Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3, Rogue 1, Swordsage 2, Rogue and SB levels to taste.
That's about as good as I can manage without racial levels and still get the maneuvers I want with SS1.
I am fine with it but someone suggested that a Pixie Fighter 2, Battle Dancer 1 would be next to useless in this group. I am inclined to disagree given some handy creative SLA's not to mention magic arrows, but if you guys have any better suggestions for progression I am open to it.
You don't automatically get those arrows in an unlimited supply. I think one of the books might give a value for them, though.
Just look at 'Pixies as Characters' - the arrows aren't listed as a feature there. It's specific equipment that some pixies have.
Go ahead and take the SS Pixie levels, I don't care anymore.
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Re: Arrows. Ah...I just know the SS gives you the ability to make them. I can't imagine they cost alot though...since Fey in the woods don't really use currency the way humans do. I would think they just craft the arrows and enchant them and supposedly the abilty grants them the ability to make them as if they had all the prereqs.
Go ahead and take the SS Pixie levels, I don't care anymore.
You don't really mean that do you? It's hard to tell with just text but I detect a faint hinto of exhaustion or DM burnout from all of our crazy requests. Don't get me wrong, counting the LA as levels adds to my IL, technically allows for me to use Otto's Dance, gives me more starting skill points, and all of that is great but I don't want you to feel badgered into it. I wasn't trying to pester you, only trying to wrap my brain around the limitations of the build and prereqs. If you really do mean it then the only real update for 3.5 is the addition of Damage Reduction 10/Cold Iron. It also means I only get two class levels to play with at the start instead of 3 which would probably go to fighter.
Would I still get to "buyofff" a level at level 16 level 15? (Note that with SS, we are effectively averageing out an LA of +5 and since 3x5=15) Also, since Pixies are born with wings would you allow me to take Flyby attack etc. as one of mky fighter bonus feats?
Thank you for your DM benevolence.
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If all of the above is fair game we have a progression that looks more like this:
Pixie 5, Fighter 2, Battle Dancer 1, Swordsage 2, Rogue 1, SB 3, (hypothetical buyoff point), Rogue 1, Cleric 1(?), Daring Outlaw combo for the rest…
Lets me get the Swordsage goodness at a lower level to equalize the power levels and saves the gratuitous levels of Sneak Attacking for later levels.
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It's not really exhaustion. There's just no real reason not to go with it. I don't want you getting squashed just because you only have 20 hit points while everyone else has 50 (or so). You still won't have a very high BAB, which is going to hurt, and your saves are likely to be relatively low. Fey HD aren't really all that good.
Again, you can easily make a good character that matches the flavor you're going for with a more general swordsage base. You could even adapt it to be based off of Cha more than Wis, if need be. Still, you've had plenty of help with your character too so I wouldn't want to undo all that work.
As for the arrows, you're still going to need to craft them. That takes time regardless of cost. Speaking of cost, the flavor of whether pixies use currency or whatever is irrelevant. Cost is relative value, rather than strictly literal.
A sleep arrow costs 107 gp in market cost, or if my estimates are correct (and they may well not be), about 53.5 gp and 4 xp per arrow crafted.
Memory loss costs 607 gp market cost, or estimated 303.5 gp and 24 xp per arrow crafted.
That's pretty pricey for ammunition, if you plan on using them regularly. You've got plenty of better tricks up your sleeves without needing to worry about pixies' magic arrows. You've left that world behind, even if only partially.
As for the Damage Reduction, treat it as giving DR 2/cold iron per progression level.
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Sounds good. And yes pricey for ammo (unless the arrows are recoverable). Still not a bad idea to keep a couple arround just in case, memory loss in particular can be devious.
Regarding hit points. It is unorthidox but I had one DM who was concerned about the low fey HD consider giving me 1d6 for each of the 5 fey levels rather than a single HD for all 5.
Would that be broken? I'm not terribly attached to it but it might help survivability (also I don't know how brutal you are planning on being with us...)
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I'm in the mood to steal creative ideas from other sources.
I'm hoping that just about everyone is taking a custom artifact. These aren't like normal artifacts, as they give you powers/abilities based on inner spirit.
The writer in me AND the gamer in me love you for these kinda things Venn! I totally get to delve into the inner spirit of a (what some might consider) amoral bloodsucking aristocratic sorcerer who binds the darkness and spirits to his will! And make something cool out of it! :D
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Sounds good. And yes pricey for ammo (unless the arrows are recoverable). Still not a bad idea to keep a couple arround just in case, memory loss in particular can be devious.
Regarding hit points. It is unorthidox but I had one DM who was concerned about the low fey HD consider giving me 1d6 for each of the 5 fey levels rather than a single HD for all 5.
Would that be broken? I'm not terribly attached to it but it might help survivability (also I don't know how brutal you are planning on being with us...)
Technically Pixie characters are supposed to trade their 1HD of Fey for their first class level, but there's hardly any point in going with the progression if all it ends up being is the LA spread out into a table. You might as well count it as d6 hp for each of those levels.
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I'm in the mood to steal creative ideas from other sources.
I'm hoping that just about everyone is taking a custom artifact. These aren't like normal artifacts, as they give you powers/abilities based on inner spirit.
The writer in me AND the gamer in me love you for these kinda things Venn! I totally get to delve into the inner spirit of a (what some might consider) amoral bloodsucking aristocratic sorcerer who binds the darkness and spirits to his will! And make something cool out of it! :D
I hope what I'm stealing the concept from isn't too blatant. :D
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Sweet! :love
:Hugs Venn:
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Hey, it seems like the least I can do since you get no BAB or saves. At least you get a ton of ability boosts and SLAs and other abilities, or there would really be no reason to take it over a LA 0 race and martial adept or caster levels.
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Yeah the lack of BAB blows but actually I do get +2 to both Ref and Will saves. Doesn't compare to a normal class progression but then most normal class progressions don't include flight and invisibility.
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Last question before I can rebuild this thing properly: Since the SS progression is a 5 level build rather than a LA+4, can I still buyoff a level? Normally you buyoff at LAx3 level but counting only class levels. If we did it that way then it would be LAx5=15+5=20...in other words he would get to "buyoff" a level just before hitting 20 with everyone else.
Is that right? or would it be at 15 or some other level? I think the higher the buyoff the more expensive it is to do as well, and it doesn't hurt me too bad if I can't buyoff. 20th level probably won't be a huge milestone for this character. In any case, currently I am stopping at Daring Outlaw at 9 levels (I have been advised that even levels of rogue are suboptimal) which leaves me one level (2 if buyoff is allowed) for a dip in something else. Cleric is handy but a single dip at level 20 is sort of anticlimactic. Heck as it is now he gets Uncanny dodge finally at 19th!!!
I suppose it is not the most uber optimal build but I am hoping it will end up being effective and most of all, ripping fun to play!
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do familiars and psicrystals have character levels, and if so what would they be in relation to ours? And if it had Wild Talent, could it then become Psionicly Focused?
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Question: We take full hit points for our first level + 10 and then we take the average for each die thereafter or we roll them on Invisible Castle?
I seem to recall reading the answer somewhere but I can;t find the post now. We need a consolodated houserule/character generation reference thread...
Oh, and does our 32 pt build include the + 1 from Level 4 or no?
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Question: We take full hit points for our first level + 10 and then we take the average for each die thereafter or we roll them on Invisible Castle?
That's right....Oh, and does our 32 pt build include the + 1 from Level 4 or no?
No. You get the 4th level bump on top of PB.
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@Thistle: You can roll them on IC if you want, but you need to link to the roll when you post your character sheet in that thread. Also, we're mostly using Myth Weavers for character sheets as well.
The system of averaging is slightly higher than some people use. Here's it's 1/2 HD +1, so d4 is 3 hp, d6 is 4 hp, and so on.
As for the buyoff, hell no. You're already going through the trouble of taking your racial abilities as class levels. You can't trade that out; This isn't LA anymore. The only way you get to buy it off is if you're going with LA and all that entails, such as no hp for all those effective levels and no IL progression. It's kind of a bum deal, but that's kind of what you get for wanting to play a monster race with such a ridiculous LA.
@tallan: Use the rules listed under their entries. Their HD equal your's, but hp are still half the owner's. I'm not sure on what the rules are for being psionically focused, but I don't think psicrystals can do that as they don't technically have a mind but are a splinter of your own personality. If anything you'd have to psionically focus for it, and that whole thing just gets messy. If you can find and show me some precedent for it then I'll consider otherwise.
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@tallan: Use the rules listed under their entries. Their HD equal your's, but hp are still half the owner's. I'm not sure on what the rules are for being psionically focused, but I don't think psicrystals can do that as they don't technically have a mind but are a splinter of your own personality. If anything you'd have to psionically focus for it, and that whole thing just gets messy. If you can find and show me some precedent for it then I'll consider otherwise.
Psicrystal containment (http://dndsrd.net/psionicFeats.html#psicrystal-containment) is close, but is focus for the master...I dunno about focus for the crystal itself...
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It's certainly a good option if you want to use two feats or abilities that require you to expend focus, without wasting an extra round. But I think he's specifically looking at giving his psicrystal a psionic feat which would require it to do the same thing.
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Hmm... you said we could spend money enhancing our artifact weapon. Is it ok if I pay for mine to be made of Deep Crystal, then? Basically, can we say they're made of special materials, if we pay for that?
Or could I have it be a set of armor instead? I want to use a two-handed reach weapon, and won't have a spare hand for a shield.
If the psicrystal takes Wild Talent or Hidden Talent, it would have a power point pool, and hence should have a psionic focus that it could use for itself. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a psionic focus at all, as it isn't technically a psionic creature. Psicrystal Containment basically gives the master another focus, which happens to be stored in the psicrystal. The psicrystal can't do anything with it itself.
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Yes, if you want to spend money to make it out of a special material, that's fine. It's a reflection of yourself, afterall.
Again, it can be a special shield, but I'd prefer melee-types to use the weapon version as it symbolizes a special relationship with your weapon; it's bonded with your very soul. It's almost like everyone in this group is a Kensai, to a very limited degree. This shared trait among you is probably what attracted Bordrek to you, knowing that you all had exceptional skills.
If you shaped the shield like a suit of armor, it would only provide that limited enhancement as a shield bonus to your AC, and wouldn't provide an armor bonus. Very good for, say, a monk or caster, though for a caster I think I'd still have to impose an ASF %.
By the way, these items, at the very least their base properties, do not disappear in an AMF, as they're an expression of your spirit rather than magical or psionic effects. Other items will still fail, but not the weapon/shield item. Possibly not the artifact, I'm not sure yet. Basically, just don't worry about your sword or whatever disappearing just because someone casts AMF.
As for the psicrystal, that's why it gets tricky. Technically it doesn't have a mind, but it's still forged of psionic energy and has a personality. I still think the Share Power ability is more appropriate as a reflection of this, though.
Giving it Hidden/Wild Talent, however, represents something else entirely. That means that it's gained a stronger semblance of life and individuality. At that point, I'm almost inclined to give it an ego score, too, much like an item familiar gains.
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There's nothing I want in particular, so hows about clockwork armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a)?
Actually, no, that's a horrible idea.
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There's nothing I want in particular, so hows about clockwork armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a)?
Actually, no, that's a horrible idea.
God, I love that stuff! :D
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Yeah, the -8 ACP and 90% ACF is a little deadly.
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Yeah, the -8 ACP and 90% ACF is a little deadly.
It sounds like that only applies if you don't have heavy armor proficiency.
The small levers inside the breastplate control the sensitivity of its strength-boosting and the force amplification of its leg motors. Setting these controls properly requires a successful Craft (construct) check (DC 14) or Spellcraft check (DC 18). Success allows a Medium-size creature of any Strength to use the armor effectively, as long as they have Armor Proficiency (heavy). Creatures without that proficiency may still wear the armor but suffer a -8 Armor Check penalty to all the usual skills and suffer a 90% chance of spell failure. Failure to set the controls properly means that the +4 bonus to Strength still applies, but the armor imposes a -4 penalty to Dexterity instead of a bonus.
So if you have heavy armor proficiency, it sounds like it is ASF 0% and ACP 0. :D
It's a bit too expensive for us to reasonably have at our starting level, though. And then you'd also have to constantly look over your shoulder for Cyran Avengers...
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Yeah, the -8 ACP and 90% ACF is a little deadly.
It sounds like that only applies if you don't have heavy armor proficiency.
The small levers inside the breastplate control the sensitivity of its strength-boosting and the force amplification of its leg motors. Setting these controls properly requires a successful Craft (construct) check (DC 14) or Spellcraft check (DC 18). Success allows a Medium-size creature of any Strength to use the armor effectively, as long as they have Armor Proficiency (heavy). Creatures without that proficiency may still wear the armor but suffer a -8 Armor Check penalty to all the usual skills and suffer a 90% chance of spell failure. Failure to set the controls properly means that the +4 bonus to Strength still applies, but the armor imposes a -4 penalty to Dexterity instead of a bonus.
So if you have heavy armor proficiency, it sounds like it is ASF 0% and ACP 0. :D
It's a bit too expensive for us to reasonably have at our starting level, though. And then you'd also have to constantly look over your shoulder for Cyran Avengers...
And Frost Mages and the like :P
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First let me say this is just for the sake of argument, I'm fine with that decision.
Intelligence Adj. (Ex)
Add this value to the psicrystal’s Intelligence score. Psicrystals are as smart as people (though not necessarily as smart as smart people).
Psicrystal Personality (Ex)
Each psicrystal has a distinct personality, chosen by its owner at the time of its creation from among those given on the following table. At 1st level, its owner typically gets a feel for a psicrystal’s personality only through occasional impulses, but as the owner increases in level the psicrystal’s personality becomes more pronounced. At higher levels, it is not uncommon for a psicrystal to constantly ply its owner with observations and advice, often severely slanted toward the psicrystal’s particular worldview. The owner always sees a bit of himself in his psicrystal, even if magnified and therefore distorted.
Those to me denote a thinking being, capable of independent thought. Now as to what it would accomplish mechanically, I primarily thought it would open up more of the psionic feats to it and give it a bit more liveliness.
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It's fine, you can give it the feat, but that's going to advance its personality by quite a bit as it represents it gaining its own mind rather than just part of your's. It's still loyal to you, but certain actions that are against your shared alignment or which directly oppose its personality shard will cause a slight conflict. It's minor, but a consequence of sentience.
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Well, this character is shaping up to be a one man band of personalities. Introducing, Poly-Cog: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=175991
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Yes, if you want to spend money to make it out of a special material, that's fine. It's a reflection of yourself, afterall.
Again, it can be a special shield, but I'd prefer melee-types to use the weapon version as it symbolizes a special relationship with your weapon; it's bonded with your very soul. It's almost like everyone in this group is a Kensai, to a very limited degree. This shared trait among you is probably what attracted Bordrek to you, knowing that you all had exceptional skills.
If you shaped the shield like a suit of armor, it would only provide that limited enhancement as a shield bonus to your AC, and wouldn't provide an armor bonus. Very good for, say, a monk or caster, though for a caster I think I'd still have to impose an ASF %.
By the way, these items, at the very least their base properties, do not disappear in an AMF, as they're an expression of your spirit rather than magical or psionic effects. Other items will still fail, but not the weapon/shield item. Possibly not the artifact, I'm not sure yet. Basically, just don't worry about your sword or whatever disappearing just because someone casts AMF.
So how does this affect my soulbow? Does my gauntlet become a +1 weapon for free?
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Yes, if you want to spend money to make it out of a special material, that's fine. It's a reflection of yourself, afterall.
Again, it can be a special shield, but I'd prefer melee-types to use the weapon version as it symbolizes a special relationship with your weapon; it's bonded with your very soul. It's almost like everyone in this group is a Kensai, to a very limited degree. This shared trait among you is probably what attracted Bordrek to you, knowing that you all had exceptional skills.
If you shaped the shield like a suit of armor, it would only provide that limited enhancement as a shield bonus to your AC, and wouldn't provide an armor bonus. Very good for, say, a monk or caster, though for a caster I think I'd still have to impose an ASF %.
By the way, these items, at the very least their base properties, do not disappear in an AMF, as they're an expression of your spirit rather than magical or psionic effects. Other items will still fail, but not the weapon/shield item. Possibly not the artifact, I'm not sure yet. Basically, just don't worry about your sword or whatever disappearing just because someone casts AMF.
So how does this affect my soulbow? Does my gauntlet become a +1 weapon for free?
You can make it a +1 for free if you like, though since that's already a part of your artifact abilities I might just say your mindblade/mind arrow abilities are upgraded to a +2. Actually, this doesn't really help you, as soulknives and soulbows already gain enhancement bonuses to their power. You can have the +1, but enhancement bonuses don't stack. Instead, I'll allow you to fire off one extra mind arrow in a round, eventually gaining more as your power progresses. Don't forget to make your character level 7, by the way.
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I'm sorry to be such a pain in the ass. I want to change my character again. :embarrassed
I'd like to play a paladin but core paladin is fucking atrocious.
How do you feel about OneWinged4ngel's fix?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7551925&postcount=15
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...I could start off with a Shiba Protector level (and thus +5 attack/damage) if I could only get one extra feat. I can get Iron Will from Otyugh Hole for 3,000gp (not that I need the Will save boost), but I still need Combat Expertise. :witsend
The best I can think of is to pick CE up with a fighter level (since there are no cleric domains which grant either of the two feats), and take Shiba Protector 1 as my next level. Unless any of you guys can cast embrace the dark chaos? :P
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I'm sorry to be such a pain in the ass. I want to change my character again. :embarrassed
I'd like to play a paladin but core paladin is fucking atrocious.
How do you feel about OneWinged4ngel's fix?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7551925&postcount=15
I've always heard great praise for this fix, and have been encouraging class fixes for weaker classes such as the Paladin. I also mentioned earlier in the other thread that Paladins' only alignment restrictions in this campaign is that they must be Lawful, to represent their dedication to an ideal.
@Prime: And you still haven't worked in Tashalatora to get your monk and psionic levels to stack for AC and such.
Also, I hope everyone's putting some thought into the weapon/shield, including a name for it (which doesn't have to follow the format I was using when detailing this ability; tallan has already come up with a name for his Shield, for instance), and you can also feel free to come up with a command word or phrase for use when calling it into service. This is just an extra roleplaying element, though I think it could be fun, even for those who are unfamiliar with the source I stole the concept from. :P
Mention these details here or just on your character sheet if you prefer. You guys will be fairly unique in having these abilities and artifacts, though you may come across the occasional NPC or enemy with one, just so you guys don't feel like you're the only special ones in the world. :D
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I thought I already named mine, but I'll alter it a little; Traveler's Shift. Activation would make the most sense via mental command, but if it's a command word then the ancient/draconic word for 'doppelganger' is he command word. Taking the shield, btw.
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Well, the reason for the command word is for dramatic effect; Eberron is a very cinematic world in general, and action points are meant to reflect this. Have you ever seen a movie where a character pulled off a stunt that they, by all rights, shouldn't have been able to? That was action points at work.
Calling out the name of your weapon or what have you is just more dramatic, like naming your attacks if you're a kung-fu master and calling them out as you perform them. That kinda thing.
Again, if you guys all decide you don't want to do this thing with the weapon/shield, I can scrap it and save it for another game. I just like the concept, personally.
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I dunno....calling out a keyword is a little too Voltron/Dragonball/Sailor Moon esque. its good for games where that is the flavor but here it seems too cheesy. No "Sword of Omens" for me thanks...
On the other hand, having the artifact glow or spark or whatever while in use or even having it make the characters eyes glow or an aura crackle would work fine.
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I dunno....calling out a keyword is a little too Voltron/Dragonball/Sailor Moon esque. its good for games where that is the flavor but here it seems too cheesy. No "Sword of Omens" for me thanks...
On the other hand, having the artifact glow or spark or whatever while in use or even having it make the characters eyes glow or an aura crackle would work fine.
I agree... I'm just glad someone else said it first. :P I can't bring myself to turn down a free magic weapon, though. With free Quickdraw+ and extradimensional storage, even... :embarrassed
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Well, the reason for the command word is for dramatic effect; Eberron is a very cinematic world in general, and action points are meant to reflect this. Have you ever seen a movie where a character pulled off a stunt that they, by all rights, shouldn't have been able to? That was action points at work.
Calling out the name of your weapon or what have you is just more dramatic, like naming your attacks if you're a kung-fu master and calling them out as you perform them. That kinda thing.
Again, if you guys all decide you don't want to do this thing with the weapon/shield, I can scrap it and save it for another game. I just like the concept, personally.
I like the idea, but am not tied to it. I'm pleased to have the options it affords, but as a treasure hunter, I like getting treasure ;)
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You don't need to use the command word in your posts, it's just an option for extra RPing, as cheesy as it is. I'm not requiring you to do this, though I'd still like the weapon/shield to have a name. Even if just as a sign of the special connection you have to it (I'll save the cheesier stuff for my other group ;))
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Ok... after reading pg. 154 of C. Warrior, I see that you can change which exotic weapons are considered martial for specific individuals of races that have weapon familiarity. So would it be ok if I said that I lived with dwarves for a while, some of which treated the dwarven warpike as a martial weapon? And that would let me take it as a martial weapon, also? :D
So you don't have to look it up...
Warpike, dwarven 45 gp, 2d6 damage, 20/×3 crit, 15 lb. Slashing or piercing
The dwarven warpike resembles a halberd with a greatly elongated shaft, to the end of which a counterweight has been added. A dwarven warpike has reach. You can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe.
Normally, you strike with a dwarven warpike’s axe head, but the spike on the end is useful against charging opponents. If you use a ready action to set a dwarven warpike against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character.
You can use the hook on the back of a dwarven warpike to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the dwarven warpike to avoid being tripped.
So it's basically a guisarme that does 2d6 instead of 2d4, and that does double damage when readied vs. a charge. It also has two damage types.
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Names for artifacts are cool and go back to the best of Tolkien: Orcrist, the Goblin Cleaver, Sting, Spiderfoe etc.
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@thistle: True.
@Phaedrus: Sure, but remember that's your background trait. We can say that after leaving Adar, you lived with a warrior clan of dwarven guardians, much different from their brethren in the cities who are focused more on magics and banking. :D
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Awesome. Now to come up with a name. I want something fun, like the Red Scare, or the Ruby Sickle/Anvil. :D
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Working on my character sheet now.
How many action points do we get?
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Excellent. I really like that Paladin fix too.
What do you think about combining the artifact and the weapon into one? Maybe always having the artifact sword, but having a power up to call the spirit into the weapon, making it stronger?
Build so far is:
Paladin 5/Ordained Champion 2
This gives me a ton of smites/encounter. Then I have Awesome Smite, Divine Might, Power Attack, Weapon Focus. I need two more feats. What to do...
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@thistle: 5 + 1/2 your character level is the base; for level 7 it's 8 AP.
@Phaedrus: I'm confident you'll find something that you're satisfied with. :D
Feel free to also come up with a different format for names; Some people are going with other languages which require translation for their meaning, but sound awesome regardless. :D
@bears: I'll PM you about the artifact.
Also, build seems fine, I like how this makes smite more useful. And you are much like Phaedrus's equivalent in the other group, as you'll probably have better defenses or at least acting as more of a defender than your squishier allies.
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Alrighty, by tomorrow, I'll have a blood-themed
zanpakutonamed sword/shield item, and I'll find a nifty spellcasting/binding feat. Promise! Do you care much about the dramatic portion? Like, could I draw an ethereal athame from my heart, slashing it across my chest, thus forming a shield from the blood-mist (actually ethereal/arcane energy) issuing forth from the cut and growing thicker (more potent as I grow stronger/our soul-bind becomes greater, perhaps, but I'm trying to think of a proposal that isn't too strong...) as more of my own/my foes blood is spilt? Even if it's just a redder shield as it progresses, not necessarily a higher AC.
It'll probably be a sword, that was just an illustration example; I'd go shield if I thought that giving up my shield spell was a smart choice for a 16 AC spellcaster. :rollseyes
I'm also now reading through tome of magic; fun book, wish I'd seen shadowcasters and the nocturnomancer before I'd started building this guy (thematically, it's almost more perfect), but I'm not doing that to you, Venn. Also, I'm too lazy to. :P
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A link to my WIP: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=176075
Got all my skills down. Did I pick good Languages?
Could *seriously* use help shopping since y'all are waaay more steeped in magic item usefullness.
Also need to pick the final SLA Venn offered me, it's between Glibness and Haste. Haste seems a thematic choice but my concern is that it won't interact well with my Flyby Attack Tactic...
Thoughts?
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@thistle: I'd prefer glibness as it's more of a utility spell and fits better with the fey/bard themed spells.
As for items, a good place to start is in a handbook dedicated to your class or classes similar to your's, so look for a Rogue or other sneaky class Handbook, also look at Bunko's Bargain Basement (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0) for some good finds.
@flay: The dramatic portion isn't as important since not everyone is going to make use of it; however, be as descriptive as you'd like.
I can't really add much to your artifact power right now, but maybe over time you can unlock something that adds to that power. Feel free to PM me any thoughts you might have if need be, too, if you want to develop it and run things by me.
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Oh, man, glibness. Totally one of my top five spells.
"Did you just cast a spell?"
"No."
"Alright, move along"
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@ VennDygrem: I've added some Minor Schemas (MoE, 122) of 1st level spells to Camlen's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=167759) equipment; Pro. Evil, Undetectable Alignment, Obscure Object, Shield of faith, lesser restoration, and delay poison. I'm using Bard, Paladin, and Ranger spell levels for some of them. Is that OK?
Also, to group B: I'm looking at getting a 3rd level Minor Schema of Vigor (6000gp) granting fast healing 2 to one creature for 15 rounds (30 HP/day), 1/day. I already have a wand of lesser vigor (750gp) for 11 rounds of fast healing 1 per charge (550 HP total). Is anyone interested in me getting the Minor Schema? Better ideas?
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Hey Group A: Can anyone use a Wand of Lesser Vigor? I have about 400 gp left, and I think it would be a good idea to have one, if someone wants to split the cost. How about you, Pixie-dude? :D Taking ranks in UMD?
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I've opened up the individual group OOC threads since groups have been established and it seems people are ready to start collaborating as such.
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No UMD for me. It's not a class skill yet so I am saving those precious skill points for when I level in Rogue.
And TML is so jealous I am not in his group, with my plethora of SLAs... :D
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And TML is so jealous I am not in his group, with my plethora of SLAs... :D
If both groups are in the same world then he is perfectly capable of tracking you down, knocking you out and tossing your invisible body into a portable hole to carry around with him. :p
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And TML is so jealous I am not in his group, with my plethora of SLAs... :D
If both groups are in the same world then he is perfectly capable of tracking you down, knocking you out and tossing your invisible body into a portable hole to carry around with him. :p
No way, man. If I'm going to be putting anything into a portable hole, it's going to be a mistling fey.
Because unlimited living spells is the way to go.
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So are you going to post in the Character Sheets thread, Thistle?
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I posted a link to my sheet up in this thread earlier, still sorting stuff out though before finalizing.
And he would have to find and capture me first to knowck me out...good luck with that. :P
Oh and keeping someone in a portable hole is a bad idear considering the lack of an oxygen supply. He *could* toss me in a bag of holding however considering my characters BoH he might want to stand back while he does it... :smirk :lmao
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And TML is so jealous I am not in his group, with my plethora of SLAs... :D
If both groups are in the same world then he is perfectly capable of tracking you down, knocking you out and tossing your invisible body into a portable hole to carry around with him. :p
No way, man. If I'm going to be putting anything into a portable hole, it's going to be a mistling fey.
Because unlimited living spells is the way to go.
Slavery is wrong. I'm glad I was able to convince the mistling to come with us, though.
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@Venn How much do you care about age categories? Middle aged+ without taking penalties or benefits? I just want it for role-play reasons. Azurin's hit middle age at 28! That's so young!
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@Venn How much do you care about age categories? Middle aged+ without taking penalties or benefits? I just want it for role-play reasons. Azurin's hit middle age at 28! That's so young!
I'm making quite a few concessions on the rules as it is. I'm going to be keeping age penalties. In general, younger people are more likely to take up the mantle of the hero, especially if they're in a physical role, though of course that isn't a universal rule.
However, if you want to consider Azurins as having the same aging rate as humans, I'll allow it.
@Thistle: Even if you linked your sheet here earlier, it still needs to go in the Character Sheet thread so it's on record with all the others.
@Chemus: spells from the bard/ranger/paladin lists usually cost more as items compared to spells from a primary casting class list, since their equivalent level is higher. Not sure how that interacts with schemas, though.
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Ah. I only looked at pg 122 of MoE, but on page 47 cost is 400 x spell level x caster level. So some of the 1sts would cost 800 gp.
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Ok, so long as you have that in order, should be no problem.
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Eternal wands seem to have no such stipulation, so for the bard ones, I've switched to Eternal Wands. The divine spells, I've got a couple of Schemas for, but not much. Should I take a Schema of identify for 400gp, guys? This, of course presupposes that we'll get any loot, and that we need to determine its properties...
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So, guys, having been thinking I think it's safe to say the action required to summon and stow your weapons can freely be mental actions, without a command word. As was stated before, it's more thematic and makes more sense.
Also, how is everyone doing? It seems we're making some good headway in character development, so it looks like that'll be done soon. Classes are starting up again soon for me but that by no means should be taken that I can't run this. It took longer than I anticipated to get everything going, but it should be fun, at least I'm hoping. It's certainly good experience for me as a DM.
Has everyone figured out their artifacts and such? You may want to include a quick description with your character sheets about their abilities, what the spirit weapon/shield is named, looks like, etc., and so forth. I'm trying my best to consolidate all this info in my own personal reference sheet, but I don't want to miss anything either. :)
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Has everyone figured out their artifacts and such? You may want to include a quick description with your character sheets about their abilities, what the spirit weapon/shield is named, looks like, etc., and so forth. I'm trying my best to consolidate all this info in my own personal reference sheet, but I don't want to miss anything either. :)
Actually, the descript, I'm not having much issue with, but a weapon isn't so useful as I'd thought (so damn few proficiencies, and I'm hopefully never in combat anyways), and a shield bonus doesn't stack with the Shield spell, though can be drawn more often/faster. I'll probably make it a shield, deciding on what to replace my Shield spell with, since it's none too useful, so sort of part way there.
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I think magic armor and weapons stack with the shield spell: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm
The artifact would count I think.
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I think magic armor and weapons stack with the shield spell: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm
The artifact would count I think.
It's not so much a shield so much as it gives a shield bonus for spellcasters, instead of being a weapon. the two shield bonuses, from shield and the artifact separately, shouldn't stack. Unless I totaly missed something...
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Has everyone figured out their artifacts and such? You may want to include a quick description with your character sheets about their abilities, what the spirit weapon/shield is named, looks like, etc., and so forth. I'm trying my best to consolidate all this info in my own personal reference sheet, but I don't want to miss anything either. :)
Actually, the descript, I'm not having much issue with, but a weapon isn't so useful as I'd thought (so damn few proficiencies, and I'm hopefully never in combat anyways), and a shield bonus doesn't stack with the Shield spell, though can be drawn more often/faster. I'll probably make it a shield, deciding on what to replace my Shield spell with, since it's none too useful, so sort of part way there.
Actually, after I start seeing how people act in combat, weapon/shield items are going to have an effect even on magic. For instance, your spirit weapon could add to the damage dealt or affect damage type, improve the range, etc. A shield item could affect the duration of spells, add to your defenses, negate AoOs while casting spells, etc. Since they're more than just normal or even magic items, they affect your abilities in different ways. It may not have the same immediate payoff that a melee bruiser would get, but it will have an effect (melee combatants need some boost too anyway to keep up with casters, even if this is only a slight boost). Don't be too quick to pass up the weapon version (plus it can still be handy to have a weapon on hand if something happens to your ability to cast spells, or if you want to make an AoO or something- the weapon also doesn't have to just be a melee one, it could be ranged as well).
I just didn't want to give too much away all at once. These aren't normal magic items, and neither are they normal artifacts. In fact, I may have made a mistake in calling them artifacts to begin with.
As for stacking shield bonuses, it doesn't normally work as Thistle guessed, but I was looking for something both thematic and functional as a shield would be. I wanted it to affect touch ac and flatfooted ac appropriately, as well.
I could always just add a "Special:" line to my description saying it enhances the ability of shields and shield spells to protect the target, and stacks with other shield bonuses to AC despite the normal provision.
Do you guys think this is necessary? Do the casters plan on using Shield spells often enough for it to be an issue?
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I updated my post in the character sheet section. Their is a stat block and a link to the full, and fully updated sheet, including all equipment!
Now I just need to iron out the background a bit more, personality, and most importantly establish ties with my teammates.
My character speaks Quori so I was hoping I might have somehow befriended the Kalashatar peeps...?
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My character speaks Quori so I was hoping I might have somehow befriended the Kalashatar peeps...?
Sorry, my kalashtar doesn't speak Quori. :p
IIRC Quori is the language of beings from Dal Quor, while Riedran is the language spoken by the people of Sarlona. At any rate, my character was raised by Thranish humans so he doesn't know the first thing about that kind of stuff (he knows his mother came from Sarlona, but that's about it).
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Oh...see I don't know these things. I was just trying to take the language the Kalashatar use. Maybe I will substitute for Illumian. Phaedrus...would you be down for our characters to have become partners somewhere along the line?
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@Prime: All Kalashtar can speak Quor. Riedran is listed as a bonus language they can take, but that's how it is. It's pretty instinctive for them, in any case.
@Thistle: As for connecting with the others, I'd say you were more likely to run into Prime's character than Phaedrus. I believe Memhrek and Xehnon have a closely-knit background, both being illumians and sharing a common refugee history, having both escaped from Riedra into Adar thanks to some Illumian underground agents. Minharath grew up in Adar, though largely travelled the world by elemental Airship for some time, and so may or may not even know the two illumians. From the sounds of it, Prime's character (still nameless I see), is from Thrane, on the main continent of Khorvaire. Though everyone has travelled a bit, you're more likely to have come across Prime earlier. In fact, had you gone with the merchant ship idea I tossed out to you, you would have had an easy "in" with Minharath, due to travelling by merchant airship. You still could have met him, though, since he no longer travels on the Misty Maiden. I'm not limiting you to the Eldeen Reaches; You most likely travelled from there after being expelled from their lands.
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Actually I like the idea of him having some adventures after Eldeen. Being on a ship would be cool but didn;t we talk about it being a corsair or privateer ship?
I think it would make things flow better if I had a connection with at least one PC.
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It's fine if my character knows yours, Thistle, but mine has a rather lawful bent. So I'm not sure how they'd get along. Memhrek does have a good sense of humor, though, and might find a little winged prankster amusing, as long as he doesn't do anything too disruptive and/or illegal in front of him.
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Let's talk more about that shall we? On the surface, Prime and I would make complimentary tactical allies, both with flight, he has his range and Thistle is a melee/skirmish type.
Looking deeper however we have Prime who is a Lawful good Monk type, while Thistle is a Chaotic Neutral Scoundrel...Minharath is likewise LG, so it looks potentially dubious.
On the other Hand Xhenon is Neutral and stand the closest, with Memrek another step away with LN...
Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there but since Risada hasn't posted any kind of background info I have no idea where to start.
...thoughts?
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Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there
I misread that last part at first as "we had a contract there". That could be interesting.
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Again, alignment is somewhat different in Eberron. Plus, LG doesn't mean he can't hang out with you (otherwise how would a paladin ever operate in a normal group?). He might not take kindly to some acts, but it doesn't mean he's always got a stick up his rear.
I'll let you guys decide who knows eachother.
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Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there
I misread that last part at first as "we had a contract there". That could be interesting.
Hmmm....perhaps you hired me in one of my disguised personas?
(I updated my post in the sheet thread, continue to add more detail...)
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Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there
I misread that last part at first as "we had a contract there". That could be interesting.
Hmmm....perhaps you hired me in one of my disguised personas?
(I updated my post in the sheet thread, continue to add more detail...)
Generally when you make a "contract" with Fey it's a little more... binding than what you're thinking of.
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Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there
I misread that last part at first as "we had a contract there". That could be interesting.
Hmmm....perhaps you hired me in one of my disguised personas?
(I updated my post in the sheet thread, continue to add more detail...)
Generally when you make a "contract" with Fey it's a little more... binding than what you're thinking of.
The contract, is it worth the price?
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Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there
I misread that last part at first as "we had a contract there". That could be interesting.
Hmmm....perhaps you hired me in one of my disguised personas?
(I updated my post in the sheet thread, continue to add more detail...)
Generally when you make a "contract" with Fey it's a little more... binding than what you're thinking of.
Can you explain what you mean? My mind naturally gravitates towards kinky places... ???
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Xhenon even has feycraft armor so it is possible he visited the Twilight Demesne, and we had some contact there
I misread that last part at first as "we had a contract there". That could be interesting.
Hmmm....perhaps you hired me in one of my disguised personas?
(I updated my post in the sheet thread, continue to add more detail...)
Generally when you make a "contract" with Fey it's a little more... binding than what you're thinking of.
Can you explain what you mean? My mind naturally gravitates towards kinky places... ???
I mean, the price is something huge and sometimes abstract (such as your first-born child or your ability to feel joy), and your descendants inherit the debt. Plus what you get often turns out to be flawed, dangerous, or just not as good as you thought it would be and it's nigh-impossible to escape.
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So do you want to create a connection or no? And you don't have to worry about my Pixie in particular with regards to your first-born. :smirk
Mostly out for fun, adventure, and mischief...maybe you hired him as just a Dwaven Fighter...?
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I was thinking more like
Me: "I wish I could use my power."
Thistle: "Why certainly, I can forcibly awaken your power in a way which probably won't distort the connection with your quori spirit thus preventing you from ever developing true psionic potential."
Me: "Um, okay."
Thistle: "Nice doing business with ya. Now as for payment... for starters I'll hang around you invisibly all day, annoying you via your mindlink power which for some reason you can't turn off. Try not to stare angrily at the corner, people might think you're crazy."
Gauntlet: *Huh, where am I?*
Me: "Hey, I can dream now!"
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I was thinking more like
"I wish I could use my power."
"Why certainly, I can forcibly awaken your power in a way which probably won't distort the connection with your quori spirit thus preventing you from ever developing true psionic potential."
"Um, okay."
"Nice doing business with ya. Now as for payment... for starters I'll hang around you invisibly all day, annoying you via your mindlink power which for some reason you can't turn off."
YEah, but how would Thislte be able to awaken your power? :twitch
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YEah, but how would Thislte be able to awaken your power? :twitch
Fey often do things which should be far beyond their power through "contracts" in stories. It would be a once-off thing - Thistle can't form a contract with someone else as long as my character or a descendant is alive, and as long as he doesn't feel like it.
Isn't there a teamwork benefit which lets you see hidden team members? That could help him see though Thistle's invisibility.
This gives tallan's character plenty of opportunities to make aghast faces at us (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BileFascination) (particularly if my character is a fellow "-harath" and thus has the same quori spirit). My character also speaks very poor Quori, which shouldn't even be possible for a kalashtar. This would also give Thistle a reason to know it (he stole the knowledge from the spirit).
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I actually already changed his languages to fit his disguises so that point is moot.
See your kind of thinking is how I usually am, but I have been shot down already a few times for suggestiing things that just aren't within the realm of "how the system works."
Keep in mind I am not as steeped in Eberron as you are so many of your referrences aren;t making sense to me. Mind you IC that is a good thing as my chatracter is newish to the scene and likewise dicovering and it limits my use of OOC knowledge. For OOC discussion though could you explain things to me in the Queen's good English?
You are suggesting that my character had or has the ability to make a once in a lifetime contract with someone that unlocks their secret power but he is bound to that person for the rest of their lives? What does he get out of it again???
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You are suggesting that my character had or has the ability to make a once in a lifetime contract with someone that unlocks their secret power but he is bound to that person for the rest of their lives? What does he get out of it again???
Nah, he isn't bound, he just feels like tagging along for a while. Maybe it's deferred payment. Fey often have an odd sense of value, trading a ton of gold for a pebble or vice versa - who knows what he's getting out of it. This is generic stuff, not really Eberron-specific.
The contract has no additional mechanical effect, other than forcing my character to use mindlink only on Thistle, so I don't see how it would raise any problems.
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How does the mindlink work? And its only a Thistle-Prime connection?
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If you guys want to have the connection, I'll PM you both to tell you how it goes down.
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Oh this sounds rich. :D
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Send us your thoughts Boss!
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Done. :D
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How does Venn's idea sound to you Prime? You game? :devil
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Completed the personality block on my Character Sheet post...I think that means I am officially complete as far as that stuff goes. Just need to work out the details with Prime and I am ready to start this thing! Yay! :D
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Just a forewarning: I'll be gone most of the coming day. I may have a chance to check the boards in the morning, but I'll then be gone until late at night.
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How does Venn's idea sound to you Prime? You game? :devil
Eh... there's less aghast stares that way...
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What does that mean? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Would you mind detailing your character a bit more? You can PM me if you prefer...
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What are you talking about? They are totally different. One of them is a undead paladin from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring, and the other's a mostly human noble descended from people from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring.
Also, one of them is an obvious ripoff of Archer, and the other isn't.
It just made me think of the explanation of Shirou's powers for some reason (particularly "mold the patterns and shape the conduits of magic"). He goes ages thinking he's magically inept, then he discovers he can copy other peoples' stuff.
I'll stop noticing these things shortly after I finish reading the LP of Tsukihime. Probably.
You do realize that now I'm obligated to make my artifact's command word "Gear Up", right?
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What are you talking about? They are totally different. One of them is a undead paladin from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring, and the other's a mostly human noble descended from people from an alternate universe with magical powers who goes adventuring.
Also, one of them is an obvious ripoff of Archer, and the other isn't.
It just made me think of the explanation of Shirou's powers for some reason (particularly "mold the patterns and shape the conduits of magic"). He goes ages thinking he's magically inept, then he discovers he can copy other peoples' stuff.
I'll stop noticing these things shortly after I finish reading the LP of Tsukihime. Probably.
You do realize that now I'm obligated to make my artifact's command word "Gear Up", right?
I have no idea how that is supposed to relate to Type-Moon - it just makes me think of Kamen Riders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-889KBbQR7o). ???
...someone should totally be a Kamen Rider.
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I am not understanding the reference of Aghast Stare. I did see the link to bile fascination but I'm not clear on how that applies to this situation...
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@TML: Just so we're all aware, I did change the requirement from command word to mental action. You can still give a verbal command for effect if you want. ;)
(Whoo, posting from the air! :D)
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that's cool! where are you goin?
so what's left to do?
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Swapped out some potions on my sheet...
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Just returning to school for the new semester. I'm in and everything's all set (besides a general lack of groceries due to being gone from my apartment for 2 months. :D)
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
If you can fuel DMM with it, I agree. :smirk
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
You know we're bound to run into those sooner or later :lol
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
You know we're bound to run into those sooner or later :lol
Well... you could call one via Planar Binding, and then control it via rebuking. ;)
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
You know we're bound to run into those sooner or later :lol
Oh, yeah, that'll be fun to debuff...
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
You know we're bound to run into those sooner or later :lol
Well... you could call one via Planar Binding, and then control it via rebuking. ;)
No risk either, since hippos can't attack you.
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
You know we're bound to run into those sooner or later :lol
Well... you could call one via Planar Binding, and then control it via rebuking. ;)
No risk either, since hippos can't attack you.
:lol :lmao
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I don't have to go back till the 11th! :D
I have one free feat. What should it be?
Chosen of Tem-Et-Nu.
Rebuke hippos 12/day? That's unparalleled power.
I wonder how loosely "hippo" is defined - can you control paragon pseudonatural half-force-dragon hippos?
You know we're bound to run into those sooner or later :lol
Well... you could call one via Planar Binding, and then control it via rebuking. ;)
No risk either, since hippos can't attack you.
:lol :lmao
Wow, unintentionally found a use for this feat, have we? Thinking a sorc/ sand shaper for flavor...
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lol, that's classic CO for you. Give us an old rusty spoon, and we'll figure out how to destroy and/or takeover the world with it. :D
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lol, that's classic CO for you. Give us an old rusty spoon, and we'll figure out how to destroy and/or takeover the world with it. :D
Well duh - tetanus deals con damage.
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How many rusty old spoons can we fit in one build? How much would a magic item which turns chickens into hippos cost? :smirk
I just want to figure out some way to make the anti-conversion ghost hippo attack your enemies.
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Hey, take this out into Min/Max, this here's a game thread. I swear, I go to bed for one night and this is what I come back to! :P
Seriously though, how are we doing?
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Well, aside from my to-be-revealed-dramatically artifact stuff, I'm completely done.
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:lmao @ you guys.
Anyways, I got that feat to pick, then I'm done.
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Mind posting the artifact rules again for easy reference, Venn?
Aside from that, I need to work out my fluff, but I'm pretty damn busy with exams at the moment.
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:lmao @ you guys.
Anyways, I got that feat to pick, then I'm done.
Battle blessing?
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:lmao @ you guys.
Anyways, I got that feat to pick, then I'm done.
Battle blessing?
I would pick that or SotAO but I only have 4th level Paladin casting. That is, one 1st level spell.
Eh, I think I'll just pick Dreadful Wrath.
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:lmao @ you guys.
Anyways, I got that feat to pick, then I'm done.
Battle blessing?
I would pick that or SotAO but I only have 4th level Paladin casting. That is, one 1st level spell.
Eh, I think I'll just pick Dreadful Wrath.
That's a nice one, especially if someone else (or you) can stack another fear effect on top of it. :D
I'm ready to go.
Edit: Hmm... are the Chahar-aina and Dastana from Oriental Adventures ok? They're add-ons to light armor that boost its AC by 1 each. Enhancement bonuses added to them do not stack with the armor's enhancement bonus, though. I think one of them actually gives you a shield bonus though, as it takes up the buckler slot. I'm not really relying on AC much for defense, but a couple more points would be nice if they're cheap. :D
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From the Team B thread :
I don't think so, unless there are any Fear-spells on the Druid list...
In an issue of Dragon there is some barding which allows for a free action demoralize on attack. If I could remember which issue it is I'm sure that would be more helpful... 349? Maybe?
I'll take a look, I have some cash left anyway :)
EDIT: Found it :)
Grotesque Barding in Dragon 349. +50 gp gives a -1 on attacks, but allows a free action demoralize after each attack with a +2 circumstance bonus.
Is it okay if I add that to my Animal Companion's equipment, Venn?
There's some other mundane stuff for AC's in that issue as well, I'll have to give it a good read :)
EDIT 2: It's gonna be hard to boost Intimidate with my AC's limited skill points AND it being a cross-class skill, I doubt it's worth investing a whole lot in...
EDIT 3: Claw Extenders from Dragon 334 look nice, +1 damage with claws and no downside :)
Would it be okay for me to use some of that stuff, Venn?
EDIT: Also, Studded Leather with bone instead of metal for studs (so a Druid can use it)? I seem to recall reading about that in a supplement (maybe A&EG or Masters/Races of the Wild?)...
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@Bowen: Those look fine. If there were any reason for it to get out of hand, I can always sunder it. ;)
Which artifact rules were you asking about, by the way?
@Phaedrus: Those are, and work mostly because you're coming from Sarlona. For anyone else considering them, however, note that they can only be worn over padded, leather, or chain shirt armor; the Chahar-aina requires proficiency with medium armor, while the dastana requires proficiency with light armor.
Phaedrus, if you take these make sure to note that your armor spikes are added to the Chahar-aina, otherwise you wouldn't be able to add it on top of regular spiked armor.
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@Venn: The basic artifact we get from the start. I was just looking for a summary of what it entails exactly.
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@Venn: The basic artifact we get from the start. I was just looking for a summary of what it entails exactly.
Each of you has a unique item with special abilities that none of the others' posesses. I just posted an overview of the background on the item in General Player Knowledge (actually went a little overboard, I think!), the bottom paragraph of which gives the skeleton of what the base weapon/shield does. If you're looking for the rules on your's specifically, you artifact works like a Wilding Clasp for a number of worn items equal to 1/2 your character level (3 items at this level). I'm not sure whether you went with a weapon or shield (since you may want a weapon for when you're not wild shaped, but you may decide the extra boost to AC even while wild shaped is better for your character. It's up to you.) as the combat item.
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Took me forever and a day, but anyways, my spirit weapon, last of my tasks, is below.
[spoiler]Preahiejir: Draconic for "Heartsblood"
+1 Athame (Dagger, damn spellcaster weapon proficiencies!)
Peahiejir, draconic for "Heartsblood," is drawn straight from Mytos' chest, where globs of what seem like blood spew forth as though the blade were actually removed after a stabbing wound. the blood does not touch the ground, but floats somewhat (like a lavalamp), and blood further spilt might adhere to this as well, if spilt nearby Mytos.[/spoiler]Too much on the flavor side? Basically, I was going for a sort of "blood aura," since just a glowing magic weapon seemed cliche. I mean, I can already see blood (lifesense!), why not make it a bit trippy? :D If it's too much though, I get that, and it can be removed.
That being said, in regards to snarky posts about whipping out my coffin for sleepy-time, I just realized that should I leave the bag open, I can crawl inside my coffin, inside the bag of holding, and sleep there. Alternatively, I could still get a room for myself, being a prissy noble and all, but still, that's hella funny.
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That seems fine to me. You guys can be as descriptive as you want with the shield/weapon and such, since it really doesn't have any effect on gameplay.
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Ok, so the sound of things lead me to believe everyone will be ready to go by the start of next week. We can start earlier than that, of course.
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I'll get fluff done this weekend, so next week sounds good :)
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Thistle, you might want to consider the Momentary Alteration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#momentaryAlteration) feat, since you already have Magic In the Blood. 1-minute alter self 3/day into one specific form. You just need to have UMDed an item of alter self at some point.
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Thistle, you might want to consider the Momentary Alteration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#momentaryAlteration) feat, since you already have Magic In the Blood. 1-minute alter self 3/day into one specific form. You just need to have UMDed an item of alter self at some point.
He said he wasn't putting ranks into UMD. :bigeye
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Thistle, you might want to consider the Momentary Alteration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#momentaryAlteration) feat, since you already have Magic In the Blood. 1-minute alter self 3/day into one specific form. You just need to have UMDed an item of alter self at some point.
He said he wasn't putting ranks into UMD. :bigeye
1 rank. Keep trying with an eternal wand until you succeed, then sell it. :p
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Thistle, you might want to consider the Momentary Alteration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#momentaryAlteration) feat, since you already have Magic In the Blood. 1-minute alter self 3/day into one specific form. You just need to have UMDed an item of alter self at some point.
He said he wasn't putting ranks into UMD. :bigeye
1 rank. Keep trying with an eternal wand until you succeed, then sell it. :p
And hope you don't suffer a mishap :P
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I'm not sure that spelltouched feats count as being racial for magic-in-the-blood.
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I'm not sure that spelltouched feats count as being racial for magic-in-the-blood.
They don't.
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I'm not sure that spelltouched feats count as being racial for magic-in-the-blood.
They don't.
I thought it had been ruled that Magic in the Blood applied to all of Thistle's SLAs?
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No, you're thinking of TML's SLA recharging. I never said anything about allowing magic in the blood to increase non-racial SLAs.
(IE: If the particular magic is not in the blood, then it doesn't apply. :P)
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No, you're thinking of TML's SLA recharging. I never said anything about allowing magic in the blood to increase non-racial SLAs.
(IE: If the particular magic is not in the blood, then it doesn't apply. :P)
Although from flavor reasons, you will be, of course, completely willing to let it apply to all the 1/day warlock SLAs, right?
:)
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What 1/day Warlock SLA's were you thinking of? I don't remember hearing of any. :P
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Perhaps he's referring to the 24h duration ones?
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Perhaps I was snarking?
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Perhaps we can drop it? :P
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all Warlock and DFA invocations are considered SLAs. I don't need alter self since I can already disguise self AND have a hat of disguise...
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Well, you can Disguise Self because of the Hat of Disguise.
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and from my SLAs...didn't you look at my sheet?
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and from my SLAs...didn't you look at my sheet?
I thought I had. Change the location of your SLAs to the Spells/Powers area so I know where to find them, like anyone else.
By the way, make sure to note that the SLAs you get from Fey Presence don't apply to Magic in the Blood. You only get them 1/day.
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Then what was the point of taking Fey Heritage? If you read the description of fey heritage, presence, and legacy, it gives you innate, inborn, SLAs as emergent properties of fey blood which based upon your interpretation of magic in the blood, makes a pretty compelling argument in my favor.
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They aren't racial abilities, they are feat abilities. What was the point of taking the feat? To get those spells as spell-like abilities 1/day, like anyone else who takes the feat.
The point of the feat is for normal humanoids to have a connection to the fey, and gain a small portion of their power. The point is not to make existing fey more fey-like.
I have read the descriptions of those feats. I know what the flavor is. Do not keep making the mistake of confusing flavor and fluff with the mechanics of the game. I am being nice by allowing you to take Magic in the Blood at all; or would you like me to take that away? If you want to get technical, your character doesn't even qualify for Magic in the Blood, as only Dwarves, elves, gnomes, planetouched, or spirit folk qualify, and then technically only those from specific regions in Faerun. Notice I didn't bring that up before; not because I didn't pay attention to the feat, but because I decided to let you keep it.
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The main issue is that a whole lot of terms in third edition are technical, and the technical definitions often have denotations which come into conflict with the common English Language connotation. In that respect, Dungeonese shares much with legalese.
Venn's been quite willing to bend the rules to let things be playable (like my silly Slaly spellthief), but each deviation from the baseline rules adds more overhead as a GM, and runs the risk of creating a bad precedent or inadvertantly breaking the system. By this point most of the broken portions of the 3.5 rules have been mapped out, but the further you get from the baseline the more difficult it is to tell the effects of each additional houserule.
Plus, he's throwing a free, customizable candy-coated super-special awesome powerup artifact at us. If getting additional uses is really that important, you can always sprinkle on some sort of feyrogurt coating.
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The main issue is that a whole lot of terms in third edition are technical, and the technical definitions often have denotations which come into conflict with the common English Language connotation. In that respect, Dungeonese shares much with legalese.
This is something I run into all the time when I play with my less CO friends. Anyone who's been on GitP recently probably saw the 6 page debate over the definition of day. That's rough stuff.
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I understand, but I have made my decision on what constitutes racial abilities in this campaign.
In this game, racial abilities are what you start off with when selecting your race. Special abilities, spell like abilities, skill bonuses, and other things that you gain from being a member of your race. This does not include abilities gained from feats, unless they have a racial prerequisite or have a racial subtype.
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I understand, but I have made my decision on what constitutes racial abilities in this campaign.
In this game, racial abilities are what you start off with when selecting your race. Special abilities, spell like abilities, skill bonuses, and other things that you gain from being a member of your race. This does not include abilities gained from feats, unless they have a racial prerequisite or have a racial subtype.
And I agree fully with that assessment.
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I understand, but I have made my decision on what constitutes racial abilities in this campaign.
In this game, racial abilities are what you start off with when selecting your race. Special abilities, spell like abilities, skill bonuses, and other things that you gain from being a member of your race. This does not include abilities gained from feats, unless they have a racial prerequisite or have a racial subtype.
And I agree fully with that assessment.
Just laying it out for Thistle.
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Maybe before the game officially starts/during the game, you could open up an In Character thread? Or two?
Something simple like a Tavern we're all in so we can develop in character a bit?
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I was under the impression that was what the OOC Group threads were for.
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Those are OOC. I'm talking about IC.
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That's true, the OOC discussion threads are already sort of flooded a bit more than I anticipated already. I more-so figured they'd be used for going over plans and such while the game was going on, so as to ask each other or me questions without cluttering the in-game thread. Not that there hasn't been some good party-specific planning going on as such.
Do you guys want an IC pre-thread? Maybe it could be an on-going thing. Whenever you guys are spending an extended stay to rest, you use The Tavern to talk to eachother IC. Still, that's generally what happens in the main thread. Though, it would help cut down on clutter in said thread.
I'll leave it to you guys. If you want IC tavern threads for each group, I'll make one up, otherwise that's what the main game thread will be for. You guys will be starting in a tavern, but not under the usual auspices of strangers being gathered for a quest ;). You guys are already on your mission, though it has only been a week or two since you all met each other and headed out.
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I like the idea of a tavern thread where people can RP more if they want outside of the game thread, but in the game where we actually have one, it isn't used all that much. We either use OOC for planning, or RP in the game thread. The "tavern" is mostly for making jokes, and pretending to flirt with tavern wenches. ;) Either way is fine with me. In the other game, the "tavern" is not really related to the game timeline at all. It is just meant to be a place where we RP what our characters do in their "down time".
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I like the idea of a tavern thread where people can RP more if they want outside of the game thread, but in the game where we actually have one, it isn't used all that much. We either use OOC for planning, or RP in the game thread. The "tavern" is mostly for making jokes, and pretending to flirt with tavern wenches. ;) Either way is fine with me. In the other game, the "tavern" is not really related to the game timeline at all. It is just meant to be a place where we RP what our characters do in their "down time".
Is it canon?
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If you guys want something like that, just let me know. Not sure whether there'd be one for each group or just one total.
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If you guys want something like that, just let me know. Not sure whether there'd be one for each group or just one total.
Better with one - separate threads might not have much traffic and this way we get to boast to each other. :D
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If I did one, you guys would have to make sure to only interact with your group. Both groups are playing the same adventure, with minor alterations. You can't technically interact, unless in a non-canon "spin-off" thread.
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One recommendation would be to divide up the IC threads into Chapters, for specific segments of the adventure. This helps organize things and makes it easier to find and referrence things than if all the IC is in one ginormous thread.
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If I did one, you guys would have to make sure to only interact with your group. Both groups are playing the same adventure, with minor alterations. You can't technically interact, unless in a non-canon "spin-off" thread.
In that case, I'd rather have two separate ones, or one "non-canon spin-off". I think the latter actually sounds funner. Then we can say things like "Where are the Cheetos!?!" :D
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If I did one, you guys would have to make sure to only interact with your group. Both groups are playing the same adventure, with minor alterations. You can't technically interact, unless in a non-canon "spin-off" thread.
In that case, I'd rather have two separate ones, or one "non-canon spin-off". I think the latter actually sounds funner. Then we can say things like "Where are the Cheetos!?!" :D
That is so turning into a Dead Alewives style skit :P
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If I did one, you guys would have to make sure to only interact with your group. Both groups are playing the same adventure, with minor alterations. You can't technically interact, unless in a non-canon "spin-off" thread.
In that case, I'd rather have two separate ones, or one "non-canon spin-off". I think the latter actually sounds funner. Then we can say things like "Where are the Cheetos!?!" :D
Meh. IC is IC. OOC tabletalk is OOC.
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Quick question: with a CL 3rd Mirror Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirrorImage.htm), I can get 1d4 +1 copies, or only 1d4 copies of myself?
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1d4+1/ 3 CL == 1d4+1 at CL3.
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How's everyone coming along? Most of you are done, which means I'll post the initial thread soon. You don't all have to be done for us to start, but you guys will probably hit some combat not too long after we begin.
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I'm totally done.
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Excepting a feat for Enniwey, I too am pretty well done...
Ooh! Forgot to ask: from both sandstorm and stromwrack there are additional familiar options that a wiz/sorc may choose (Listed at bottom of Enniwey's sheet). Are they available to Enniwey as forms?
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Mechanically I'm done. Fluffwise, getting well underway.
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Done and done.
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Is there anyone who has yet to pick a name for their character yet? :P
@Chemus: I'm going to say no this time, as those are fairly background-specific and your familiar can already morph into plenty of forms.
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Fair enough. Enniwey is done.
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Ok, I've got a fairly busy day today or I'd post up the first game post now. Look for it soon.
Also, due to some revelations in another game, I'm going to try and assume a different set of standards for certain skill checks, like the social skills and knowledge checks. This is not just because some of you have insane skill modifiers. :P
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Ok, I've got a fairly busy day today or I'd post up the first game post now. Look for it soon.
Also, due to some revelations in another game, I'm going to try and assume a different set of standards for certain skill checks, like the social skills and knowledge checks. This is not just because some of you have insane skill modifiers. :P
I would appreciate if you could give us a writeup of the new standards.
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Ok, I've got a fairly busy day today or I'd post up the first game post now. Look for it soon.
Also, due to some revelations in another game, I'm going to try and assume a different set of standards for certain skill checks, like the social skills and knowledge checks. This is not just because some of you have insane skill modifiers. :P
I would appreciate if you could give us a writeup of the new standards.
Me too. Especially the knowledge skills, so I can use them in my game. :P I haven't found a satisfactory substitute.
Edit: Hmm... you know, it's too bad they don't have a Frequency entry for monsters anymore, like they used to in the older editions of D&D. You could use that to base a knowledge check DC on. Extremely rare monsters should be more difficult to ID, regardless of their CR. The same goes for extremely common monsters. They should be very easy to ID, regardless of their CR.
This kind of thing is going to be somewhat campaign specific, also. I guess we could come up with a new system that has fixed DCs based on frequency, and then assign a frequency to creatures as they're used in the game. This would be much easier to use than rewriting them all at once...
I think I might start a thread on this in the Homebrew section, to solicit ideas and put something together.
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Well, it won't be much of an issue for the social skills. Camlen's really the only PC with huge modifiers for his level (he can pretty much automatically turn a hostile attitude to indifferent (and a good chance to boost it to friendly), or Unfriendly to friendly, and he's only level 7- Then again, he's got dark forces pushing his targets toward believing him, so it makes sense to a degree). I'll probably just apply a similar system of modifiers to Diplomacy as there exists for Bluff.
The bigger issue, which threatens your knowledge rolls more-so, is that if you want to identify a creature of, say, 10 HD, and you roll a 19, you technically don't know anything about it even though you're only 1 point off. So I figure I'll let you glean incomplete details on knowledge checks, so if you get within a few points of the target DC you're not left in total darkness.
--pseudo edit--
@Phaedrus: Some good thoughts, I'll try to contribute to said thread.
As it stands, I know that DCs exist for a reason as a particular goal or target, but it still feels wrong that one point can make such a different. The problem is that some characters have particular backgrounds and experiences (which, I suppose, are meant to be already reflected in their skill modifiers) which lend them to having exposure to different pieces of information. It's why I like that in 4E anyone can make a skill check untrained, but they're just unlikely to do very well- Though, I did have one player in my weekly game, a barbarian, who got a natural 20 on a Dungeoneering check he wasn't trained in, giving him enough information to identify the Ochre Jelly they were fighting against.
It's not practical to do the same thing in 3.5, but I don't feel too bad giving circumstance bonuses now and again. Thistle, for instance, should know a boatload about fey, even though he has no ranks in Knowledge: Nature. He is one, he came from Thelanis, etc. I wouldn't give him free ranks in Knowledge: Nature, but I might allow him to make an untrained check to identify a fey creature due to his background, and he may even get a slight bonus depending on how common it is- the frequency mentioned by Phaedrus.
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I suggest this for diplomacy. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)
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I suggest this for diplomacy. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)
That's what I'm using in the Fall of Pun-Pun game, actually. And I'm using those modifiers for Intimidate when it is used to get a diplomacy effect, although I didn't announce that in the house rules thread.... though I should have... I didn't think about it till Head of Vecna started trying to scare off my barghest. :P
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I was looking at reducing the magic item that grants +4 to social skills; looks like I should...
So, I'll make that Amulet of Wordtwisting a Minor Schema of Tongues (Brd) for 3200, saves me 2800 gp.
POI, I can take 10 on most social skills...
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Chemus, it's ok if you want to keep it. As I said it makes sense.
I was thinking of using those rules, but again, it's not a rampant issue. Also I need to be able to run the game without too much extra complexity. I'll take a look into it though.
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I figured Thelanis is a plane in Eberron, so I took Knowledge: the Planes instead.
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I suggest this for diplomacy. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)
I really don't like those rules.
A level 20 wizard can't convince his level 20 cleric wife to pass the salt.
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I suggest this for diplomacy. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)
I really don't like those rules.
A level 20 wizard can't convince his level 20 cleric wife to pass the salt.
They're less broken than the standard ones, and they're still (ab)usable. A guy in my game just convinced the enemy of a leading "army" to surrender using Intimidate, and I used those modifiers. He isn't super optimized around it, either. He just rolled well. The diplomacy rules as written are basically unusable. I like how one of the guys at the Gaming Den put it (paraphrasing): With a DC 35ish diplomacy check, you win D&D. Or your DM ignores them (more likely).
Also, the wizard would get a -10 to the DC. So he might pull it off, if he bribed her (I'll wash the dishes). :P
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See that's the difference between role-playing and roll-playing. Some things/people just aren't "open" to a diplomatic solution. NO matter how smooth talking you are they are going to tell you to gtfo...
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I suggest this for diplomacy. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)
I really don't like those rules.
A level 20 wizard can't convince his level 20 cleric wife to pass the salt.
They're less broken than the standard ones, and they're still (ab)usable. A guy in my game just convinced the enemy of a leading "army" to surrender using Intimidate, and I used those modifiers. He isn't super optimized around it, either. He just rolled well. The diplomacy rules as written are basically unusable. I like how one of the guys at the Gaming Den put it (paraphrasing): With a DC 35ish diplomacy check, you win D&D. Or your DM ignores them (more likely).
Also, the wizard would get a -10 to the DC. So he might pull it off, if he bribed her (I'll wash the dishes). :P
Well, a level 20 cleric is at least a DC 15+20+7 (wis bonus)=42. Their relationship is "intimate", so that's a -10 to the DC, and it's an even deal, so +0. Let's say the wizard put max cross-class ranks into diplomacy (for some reason), but has a 10 charisma, so that's a +11 on the check. In other words, he has to make a DC 32 check with a +11 bonus.
If he didn't put any ranks into diplomacy, he couldn't convince his wife to accept a present.
On the other hand, when DMing I tend to see the benefits of "helpful" as being rather limited (sorry man, you seem like a nice guy, but orders are orders), and the epic rules are dumb anyway, so whatever.
ED@Thistle: Long story short, some shortsighted rulesmonkeys made a few feats and classes devoted to in-combat use of diplomacy. Why? Haven't a clue
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I'm just saying there are plenty of circumstances (ie, "Could you please pass the salt?") where it makes zero sense to make a roll. Diplomacy should be roleplayed anyways and dealth with according to the situation. That is one of the gripes against D20 that kept me away for so long....reducing everything to a mechanical role, rather than using a combination of situation, role playing felicity and common sense to determine the course of events...
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I would add some stuff to the rules based on how much effort the task you want someone to do takes. As in, it's harder to convince someone to go on a six-month journey than to tell you where the nearest tavern is, even if the reward is good.
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IMHO the only time Diplomacy should be usable in combat is if some kind of magic (ie Charm) is in effect. Otherwise it's like a quote I heard in a movie which one I can't recall which is something to the effect of "Once fighting has broken out, the time for diplomatic solutions has passed." (aside from one side surrenduring).
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That's not the point- diplomacy isn't really going to factor into combat. However, the game you've chosen to play, D&D, is a game based on a set of rules. These rules govern everything, especially what characters are capable of doing in said game. Skills govern how good a character is at doing certain things, such as their diplomatic skills. Of course I'm going to require you guys to interact with NPCs and speak to them to work those social skills. The skill rolls reflect how effective those words are in achieving your goal.
The set of rules is not perfect, and of course that's why we're discussing that now.
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Yep, and why house rules were invented...to apply logic and common sense where the game designers lacked it. ;)
To take my point a bit further, I am of the school that the dice should never *wholly* dictate the game. For example, killing a character superfluously because the rolled crappy is messed up, but letting a charachter die because the player was being a moron and doing something that would obviously get them killed isn't. On the other hand, if the player was super into character, and made a really well presented rousing speech, that appealed to the in game, in character sensibilities of an enemy general or offered something that was too good to refuse, I come from the school of gaming that says that player should get a sizeable bonus to their diplomacy check (or whatever) or for the more advanced mature roleplaying troupes, perhaps the roll would be waived altogether and the DM consideres the player characters words from the perspective of the general and decides how said general would react to said words.
Don't get me wrong...I am a fan of rules and systems, but they should never trump the gold and silver rules of roleplay gaming...
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I think most of the people here would disagree with you, at least to a certain extent...
I don't mind house rules, but I'd like to know about them before the game starts if at all possible. If not, then as soon as possible after that. I don't like house rules that are made up on the spot, at the DMs whim. I want to play a game, not have the DM dictate how things happen to me. If I wanted that, I'd read a book.
I also want to know what my character is capable of. If I don't even know the rules we're playing with, that's impossible.
And I like the fact that big events can be determined by the dice. That's a major part of the game. If I didn't like that, I probably wouldn't play any d20 games. Dice pools are better for getting average results most of the time, and heavily weighting things in favor of skilled vs. unskilled attempts at things. d20 rolls are extreme in their randomness. No result is weighted over another. Dealing with that is something you have to consider when building and playing your character.
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Right. And most of my favorite games are either dice pool based (Storyteller system, Shadowrun etc.) or percentile based (Marvel RPG, Warhammer etc.)
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I think most of the people here would disagree with you, at least to a certain extent...
I don't mind house rules, but I'd like to know about them before the game starts if at all possible. If not, then as soon as possible after that. I don't like house rules that are made up on the spot, at the DMs whim. I want to play a game, not have the DM dictate how things happen to me. If I wanted that, I'd read a book.
I also want to know what my character is capable of. If I don't even know the rules we're playing with, that's impossible.
And I like the fact that big events can be determined by the dice. That's a major part of the game. If I didn't like that, I probably wouldn't play any d20 games. Dice pools are better for getting average results most of the time, and heavily weighting things in favor of skilled vs. unskilled attempts at things. d20 rolls are extreme in their randomness. No result is weighted over another. Dealing with that is something you have to consider when building and playing your character.
:clap
Exactly.
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I could have gone with high Diplomacy had I so chose.
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I could have gone with high Diplomacy had I so chose.
I'm growing to dislike that skill more and more, and I even have a diplomancer in one game on here. :P That's not all he does, though.
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I understand the underlying concerns here, and while I almost wish I hadn't brought it up, I'd also hate to think about it mid-game and try to change things.
For this game, most skills will remain the same. Occasionally, if something comes up such as a potential knowledge check, I will alert players if they get a particular bonus for familiarity before the roll is attempted. Certain rolls will not be necessary, for those things which are common sense or otherwise common knowledge (such as identifying a creature that is part of one's own race, or is extremely common). Similarly, social opportunities will be met with a bonus or penalty given the circumstances.
Honestly I'm not sure what route is best. I don't want to over-complicate things. I also want you guys to have fun. And you guys want to be able to start soon. I'll try to take a better look at my options, but for now I've got some homework and classes tomorrow to get through. Tomorrow night if I'm not too exhausted, I'll be in a better position to weigh these things against eachother. I will say that I generally like that the linked Diplo rules describe Diplomacy as bargaining. It's not a perfect system but the description is apt.
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Your PM box is full, Venn. :P
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Not anymore. :D
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Ugh, sorry for the delay guys, real life went into overdrive...
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It's ok. I'm still working out some kinks anyway. Not sure whether or not to introduce more house rules for skills or not. Again, I don't want to overcomplicate things, but I want a fun game where the stuff you guys build into your characters actually matters.
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We almost there?
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Soon. Again, still debating those few small changes, but mostly just hit that point at the beginning of semester where we get into the actual work, among a couple other issues in my life offline. Please bear with me for just a little bit longer.
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As you wish, boss :)
... by the way, is there anyone still adjusting their chars?
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I think the first game post will go up either tomorrow or Saturday. I'll elaborate on other points soon.
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Done.
Please bear in mind that I have never run a PbP game so if this all sucks, don't blame me too much. :D
As for skills, if there's any reason you should know more about a subject, I'll let you know about any circumstance bonuses that you get. As for social skills, I expect your attempts to be written out as opposed to just saying "I roll diplomacy" or "I bluff him." Diplomacy attempts will be approached from the same perspective as is detailed in Rich Burlew's system linked to earlier, but overall the rules will remain the same. Look at it like offering to bargain. You've got a proposal and you're trying to get the other party to accept that proposal. If your words are harsh or don't offer a reasonable proposal, you're going to take a penalty (or rather, success will be more difficult). If the other party has something to gain from your proposal or you're particularly persuasive, you're more likely to succeed. The actual rules don't change besides a couple circumstantial bonuses here or there, but you're less likely to completely fail on a really well-written plea just because you got a crappy roll, and you can't just win an unfriendly king over just by saying "Well, your palace doesn't smell too much like manure" and getting the right roll. Don't get me wrong, your skill rolls still affect your chance of success (a good roll on the manure-palace line means the king thinks you're making a joke at the expense of his rival's palace, for instance). I think this is fair and doesn't generally over-complicate things.
Remember, Karma is definitely in place. This is merely an extension of that existing system.
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Still need to do my skills. I'll go to look the relevant stuff up now.
EDIT: Done (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6667.msg218220#msg218220). Can I reflavour my vestige binding to have something to do with Thistle, and adjust the sign/influence to something more appropriate? (currently it's "You look sickly and diseased, and your skin becomes sallow and pockmarked" and "You cannot attack any creature with elven blood, including drow")
Finally, does anyone have suggestions for potions which could be useful? I have 1090gp left.
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Still need to do my skills. I'll go to look the relevant stuff up now.
EDIT: Done (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6667.msg218220#msg218220). Can I reflavour my vestige binding to have something to do with Thistle, and adjust the sign/influence to something more appropriate? (currently it's "You look sickly and diseased, and your skin becomes sallow and pockmarked" and "You cannot attack any creature with elven blood, including drow")
Finally, does anyone have suggestions for potions which could be useful? I have 1090gp left.
Hmm, I'm wary to actually change the vestiges' signs and influence as it's just more houserules to have to reference. On the other hand, Corellon does not exist in Eberron, and thus her backstory does not fit either. I'd prefer if Thistle didn't factor directly into your abilities, as we've gone over the extent of your pact with him.
Leraje, in Eberron, would be a champion and herald of Balinor, God of the Hunt and Nature. As such, the sign you show should fit with that. While bound to Leraje and under her influence, your sign should be either a set of small, non-functional antlers that spring from your head, or that your skin becomes a light shade of green and your hair is intermixed with green, healthy leaves, or that your skin becomes green and scaly (choose one and that's the sign, for good); Under her influence you also feel Leraje's need to prove that she is the greatest hunter and marksman and must always target any bestial creature before any humanoid creature in combat. Furthermore, if you encounter any humanoid in need of aid within the boundaries of a forest, Leraje's tremendous guilt for the actions that led her to become a vestige guides you to offer help to that person.
Let me know which sign you go with and I can give you Leraje's updated back story.
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Is it okay to read the other Groups threads or should we avoid it incase we move at different paces?
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For the most part you won't get much out of it other than how that particular group interacts with the same story. Puzzles, trap placement, some encounters, etc. might differ however so that anyone who reads the other group's thread won't necessarily glean any details that could lead them to metagame in their own thread ("Oh, that square is trapped, so I'll avoid it when we get to that point! Ha ha!"). In fact, you guys may well wind up in completely different places depending on how you proceed, so there really ought not to be any danger. I don't want to see you guys metagaming however. If anyone's played 4th edition and the first published adventure, large portions of the preliminary leg of this adventure are going to be familiar anyway, though I'm modifying it so that you guys can actually be challenged somewhat. :)
Once that leg of the journey is over, you'll move on to the completely freeform leg of the campaign, where you'll be able to determine where in the world your group travels to next. Not that I'm trying to railroad you guys in the beginning, you guys could very well decide to pack up and leave, however, that's really counter to the point of the mission right now.
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Still need to do my skills. I'll go to look the relevant stuff up now.
EDIT: Done (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6667.msg218220#msg218220). Can I reflavour my vestige binding to have something to do with Thistle, and adjust the sign/influence to something more appropriate? (currently it's "You look sickly and diseased, and your skin becomes sallow and pockmarked" and "You cannot attack any creature with elven blood, including drow")
Finally, does anyone have suggestions for potions which could be useful? I have 1090gp left.
Hmm, I'm wary to actually change the vestiges' signs and influence as it's just more houserules to have to reference. On the other hand, Corellon does not exist in Eberron, and thus her backstory does not fit either. I'd prefer if Thistle didn't factor directly into your abilities, as we've gone over the extent of your pact with him.
Leraje, in Eberron, would be a champion and herald of Balinor, God of the Hunt and Nature. As such, the sign you show should fit with that. While bound to Leraje and under her influence, your sign should be either a set of small, non-functional antlers that spring from your head, or that your skin becomes a light shade of green and your hair is intermixed with green, healthy leaves, or that your skin becomes green and scaly (choose one and that's the sign, for good); Under her influence you also feel Leraje's need to prove that she is the greatest hunter and marksman and must always target any bestial creature before any humanoid creature in combat. Furthermore, if you encounter any humanoid in need of aid within the boundaries of a forest, Leraje's tremendous guilt for the actions that led her to become a vestige guides you to offer help to that person.
Let me know which sign you go with and I can give you Leraje's updated back story.
Actually, I was wondering if I could tie it to Harath in some way.
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Who is Harath? As far as I can tell, -harath is just a common name suffix for male Kalashtar.
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Who is Harath? As far as I can tell, -harath is just a common name suffix for male Kalashtar.
The second part of a kalashtar's name is their quori's name. Two kalashatar with names ending in -harath have the same quori spirit (originally the kalashtar were something like the Tok'ra, but when the first hosts had children their spirits were shared between them, and by now they've become so stretched that they're reduced to little more than vague voices).
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Who is Harath? As far as I can tell, -harath is just a common name suffix for male Kalashtar.
The second part of a kalashtar's name is their quori's name. Two kalashatar with names ending in -harath have the same quori spirit (originally the kalashtar were something like the Tok'ra, but when the first hosts had children their spirits were shared between them, and by now they've become so stretched that they're reduced to little more than vague voices).
I can't find any reference to that in the ECS or RoE. Where is it located?
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Who is Harath? As far as I can tell, -harath is just a common name suffix for male Kalashtar.
The second part of a kalashtar's name is their quori's name. Two kalashatar with names ending in -harath have the same quori spirit (originally the kalashtar were something like the Tok'ra, but when the first hosts had children their spirits were shared between them, and by now they've become so stretched that they're reduced to little more than vague voices).
I can't find any reference to that in the ECS or RoE. Where is it located?
If it's not there, it's in Secrets of Sarlona.
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It's also in RoE, page 59.
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Ok, that's what I was looking for. I passed over it looking for references for names.
Technically there's no real connection between quori and hunting or archery, as they're all much more focused on psionics. The 'remnant of a quori spirit' sort of matches the idea of vestiges, but the quori never really had the sort of power that the vestiges did.
Suppose I go along with your idea. What do you propose as the Sign and Influence? There is no published material on specific quori, let alone the 67 quori that escaped Dal Quor to form the Kalashtar race.
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Also, I'd try to move things along by posting the actions of your contact, but I'm trying to let everyone get their character introduction out of the way. I won't wait for everyone, just the majority.
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I'll try to get basic fluff up tomorrow, been too busy/emotionally distraught the last couple of days (and too wasted right now), sorry.
~Bowen
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I'll try to get basic fluff up tomorrow, been too busy/emotionally distraught the last couple of days (and too wasted right now), sorry.
~Bowen
You ok? Don't worry about it, you should be able to catch up fairly easily. We can just assume you stumbled downstairs as well by now, or that you missed the meeting. Either way it won't matter too much.
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I've updated the NPC profiles under General Player Knowledge, with portraits and what brief details you've uncovered. I'll keep those profiles up to date as you meet or hear of other important NPCs.
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I'll try to get basic fluff up tomorrow, been too busy/emotionally distraught the last couple of days (and too wasted right now), sorry.
~Bowen
You ok? Don't worry about it, you should be able to catch up fairly easily. We can just assume you stumbled downstairs as well by now, or that you missed the meeting. Either way it won't matter too much.
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I've updated the NPC profiles under General Player Knowledge, with portraits and what brief details you've uncovered. I'll keep those profiles up to date as you meet or hear of other important NPCs.
Yeah, I'll live, thanks :)
Just been really busy with exams and had some emotional real-life stuff that I needed to get out of my system. Sorry about any delays/troubles.
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Don't worry about it. I just wanted to finally get things started since people seemed to be itching to go. The intro is just a chance to introduce the characters. :)
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Speaking of which, I just mentioned this to Group B, but the same goes for Group A; Any information you manage to get out of the Tavern threads carries over into the Game thread, but the majority of skill rolls, spells, and other abilities used don't count toward your total (if you stay up all night casting spells, they still get refreshed in the morning, for instance).
Those threads are thus what I call "pseudo-canon."
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So, continuing my question from the tavern thread, how's the weather up there? ;)
Yeah, Lyrandar probably does weather forecasts better, but Orien can compete.
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It's really cold. In fact, you might run into a bit of an icing problem. :lol
The sky is overcast, but that's common for winter, and it's night time so there's not really a whole lot you can tell about the weather, especially not for the coming day. You'd have to teleport miles into the sky for a visual forecast. Judging from the usual weather in the past few days, you figure tomorrow will be cold, and the day after, and so on. It doesn't seem likely to snow anytime soon, however.
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I figured that combining that technique with a stolen humanoid form: raptoran (or something along those lines) would make a decent recon setup. Rather conspicuous, since I don't have invisibility, but you can't have everything. I suppose the dog can help out too...
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Should I get an item that adds +2 to all knowledge skills (I can use them all untrained, so that gives me a +5 total check at minimum, which I can boost by another +4 or so when needed)?
OR
an item that grants a +4 to Spot (total check would be +10)?
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Depends on cost, I'd assume. You already have masterwork tools, right?
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Depends on cost, I'd assume. You already have masterwork tools, right?
No. The knowledge item is a MW tool. The Spot item would be a combo (or two items... whatever) of a MW tool and a +2 magic item.
Edit: Hmm.... I could go for the MW knowledge too and MW Spot tool, and drop the +2 Spot magic item... if I can find another 50 gp somewhere... :P
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50 gp isn't a big deal. As I said before, if you go a little over WBL (and 50 gp is relatively little) then go ahead.
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50 gp isn't a big deal. As I said before, if you go a little over WBL (and 50 gp is relatively little) then go ahead.
Schweet. :D
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Sorry for the delay people, still got a lot of stuff going on.
I'll have everything done next weekend.
~Bowen
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Are we using some kind of variant skill system?
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Are we using some kind of variant skill system?
I am. My high Spot/Listen mod comes from a +5 Wis modifier and the Alertness feat though.
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Are we using some kind of variant skill system?
I am. My high Spot/Listen mod comes from a +5 Wis modifier and the Alertness feat though.
Am I reading this right? You have the equivalent of 21 skills maxed out, which would cost 210 skill points, at level 7?
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Actually, he shouldn't have that many skills. Prime should have 8 skills he can choose, whether class skills or cross-class. He starts with 4 from his monk levels, then adds one skill known from each of those multiclass dips, since they all are equal to or lower than the number of skills a monk gets, and he has no int modifier. Thus, he chooses 4 skills to train in, then one for each of those classes, bringing it to 8 total skills trained. The way he's currently got it set up, he has 13 class skills and 8 cross-class skills trained, or 21 total skills trained.
Prime needs to ditch 13 skills.
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Actually, he shouldn't have that many skills. Prime should have 8 skills he can choose, whether class skills or cross-class. He starts with 4 from his monk levels, then adds one skill known from each of those multiclass dips, since they all are equal to or lower than the number of skills a monk gets, and he has no int modifier. Thus, he chooses 4 skills to train in, then one for each of those classes, bringing it to 8 total skills trained. The way he's currently got it set up, he has 13 class skills and 8 cross-class skills trained, or 21 total skills trained.
Prime needs to ditch 13 skills.
You're talking about this part:
Second, compare your new class's number of skills known at 1st level to the number of skills known 1st level from the class you already have. If you already have more than one class, compare it to the class that would grant the highest number of skills, even if that wasn't your first class. For example, if you are playing a 2nd-level rogue/5th-level fighter and pick up a level of barbarian, use the rogue's number of skills (8), even though you have more fighter levels than rogue levels.
If your new class grants an equal or lower number of skills, you can choose one skill from your new class's list to add to the skills you know as a class skill. You immediately gain the new skill at the maximum possible tank.
If your new class grants you up to four more skills than your best previous class, you may choose two skills from your new class's list to add to the skills you know as class skills. You immediately gain the two new skills at the maximum possible rank.
If your new class grants you five or more skills over and above your best class, you may choose three skills from your new class's list to add to the skills you know as class skills. You immediately gain the three new skills at the maximum possible rank.
Perform this operation every time you gain 1st level in a new class.
But before you add that new skill from each class you do this:
First, compare your current list of known skills to your new class's list of class skills. If any of your new class's class skills are currently known by you as cross-class skills, you may choose one such skill and designate it as a class skill. This change immediately increases your modifier for the chosen skill (see Skill Modifiers, above). Every time you gain a level in this new class, you may choose another such skill, if applicable, and change it from a cross-class skill to a class skill.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm
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Yes. What that means is that if you started with the list of skills chosen in the example of the Bard:
Perform (string instruments)
Spellcraft
Use Magic Device
Gather Information
Listen
Decipher Script
Forgery (cc)
If then you took a level in Rogue, that Forgery, which is cross-class for Bards, could be made into a Class skill. Any skill checks using that skill would now be made using the Class skill modifiers (say, at level 5, 8 ranks plus other modifiers) rather than cross-class modifiers (4 ranks plus other modifiers).
This does not mean you get to choose extra skills (beyond what multiclassing affords you). Your number of skills stays the same, you just get to choose one cross class skill in which you trained and turn it into a class skill. Then you get to add the extra skills learned from multiclassing.
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I put a "Skills Breakdown" section in my sheet for just this purpose
Monk skills (Initial)
Class: Diplomacy, Hide, Knowledge (religion), Move Silently
Cross-class: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Tumble
Soulknife skills: Autohypnosis, Spot, Tumble
Binder skills: Bluff, Sense Motive
Soulbow skills: Concentration, Listen
Fighter skills: Intimidate, Swim
EDIT: Ah, spotted my mistake. I misread it that you choose some of the skills granted by your class to be class skills and the others are cross-class skills. You're meant to choose any four skills, regardless of whether they're class or cross-class.
Fixed
Monk skills (Initial): Diplomacy, Hide, Knowledge (religion), Move Silently
Soulknife skills: Spot
Binder skills: Sense Motive
Soulbow skills: Listen
Fighter skills: Intimidate
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Here's how you do skills using the system, for anyone who needs reference.
You get 4 skills to start as a Monk with Int 10, which may be either class skills or cross-class skills.
Soulknife (4 + Int) grants you 1 new skill from the Soulknife skill list to be trained since it grants the same or fewer number of trained skills.
If any Monk skills you trained in were cross-class, you may choose 1 to turn into a class skill.
Binder (2 + Int) grants 1 new skill from the Binder skill list.
If any previously chosen skills were cross-class, you may choose 1 to turn into a class skill.
Soulbow (4 + Int) grants 1 new skill from the Soulbow skill list..
If any previously chosen skills were cross-class, you may choose 1 to turn into a class skill.
Fighter (2 + Int) grants 1 new skill from the Fighter skill list.
If any previously chosen skills were cross-class, you may choose 1 to turn into a class skill.
You now have 8 trained skills, and have multiclassed enough that any of your Monk skills which were cross-class could now be considered class skills, assuming they appear on the appropriate class skill list.
You can still use certain skills untrained, but you are treated as having 0 ranks in them. This is why the system is meant to be simpler. You choose a set of skills which you automatically gain maximum training in. It works out to be a lot more skill points for someone who multiclasses as extensively as Prime is, but in general it's not breaking things too much. It just doesn't allow you to train a little bit in a lot of skills.
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I'm sorry for the delay, guys. I'm still having trouble figuring out how to design encounters against you guys. You're all way too experienced for me to just throw you into a stock encounter, and I don't even really have any experience making up encounters in 3rd edition (or anything but 4th, for that matter). The DMG helps, but not as much as it should; particularly due to figuring out what you guys can take.
I'm sure you guys can tell that the spot checks are in preparation for an encounter, but this is going to have to be mainly in order to gauge your strengths. It's a little more difficult than normal than it otherwise should be. Long story short, it's going to take a little extra time.
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Hey man, no hurry. I think we all have the experience to understand how rough creating encounters is. ;)
Anyways, all first encounters are just power gauges. :D
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Man, just be glad you didn't have to make up things for the Let's Go Burning Ultra Hero Super Force game. A single encounter took... way too long to make.
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I'm just hoping to not suffer the squishie effect too much. I'm a communicator, not a fighter.
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Anyways, all first encounters are just power gauges. :D
This. Don't worry too much about it. As long as it isn't a TPK, it's a success. :D
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I'm just hoping to not suffer the squishie effect too much. I'm a communicator, not a fighter.
I too am radar/communications officer. I'm glad I have my blast(er). I just hope it's of use...:)
ninja edit: and Venn, don't stress too much about making the first encounter 'wrong'; it's just not a problem, unless we don't make it.
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I'm just hoping to not suffer the squishie effect too much. I'm a communicator, not a fighter.
I too am radar/communications officer. I'm glad I have my blast(er). I just hope it's of use...:)
ninja edit: and Venn, don't stress too much about making the first encounter 'wrong'; it's just not a problem, unless we don't make it.
Don't worry, I fully intend to high-tail it out of there in the event of everyone else dying.
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Just the opposite, I'm afraid of making the encounters too easy. I know you guys would generally be fine knowing your PCs come out without any major scratches, but I also want to challenge you. Plus, I really am not well-versed in figuring out rewards. Technically I want you guys to advance relatively quickly due to the long process that is PbP, but not so quickly that encounters become long, drawn-out ordeals, just in the design.
Plus, I've got two teams to balance for.
anyway, look for the next update late tomorrow night or sometime the next day. Unfortunately, I've got class tomorrow and that'll eat up a lot of time.
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I might be able to get on this stuff sometime this weekend despite all the work I've got. I'm also waiting on a friend of mine who promised to send me some mapmaking software he recommended.
Just a head's up.
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How's it going?
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Also refusing to let it die.
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Where did everyone go?
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I think Venn has been busy IRL and with building his character for Bowen's game. :D
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Sorry. Phaedrus is right. This week was mid-terms at school. I pulled two all-nighters this week alone! :D
Anyway, I have been doing work on this campaign too. While it would be so much easier for me to convert it to 4E, I know you guys don't want that.
Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to balance encounters against you guys. I can't go straight with the rules in the DMG or you'd tear through it too fast, so I need to balance against CO'd PC's. :P
Soon, guys. Sorry for the wait. This game will get slow sometimes, but it won't die.
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Midterms? In early February? ???
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Midterms? In early February? ???
It may be more likely than you think.
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Midterms? In early February? ???
It may be more likely than you think.
:lmao
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To paraphrase a quote: "Lord Venn, I think you overestimate our chances..."
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My school operates on the quarter system, and each quarter is 10 weeks long. We started in early January. I was surprised to hear it was mid-term myself. Most of my classes are project-based, so we don't really have midterm exams. It just so happens most classes schedule projects to land on mid-term week. :)
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What system is that? Where are you?
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I go to an art school and they try to cram a lot of teaching into as little time as possible, thus quarters instead of semesters (most students have summer as an optional quarter, so they only take three quarters- fall, winter, and spring).
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Hey Venn, do you think you are overthinking things a bit? Why not let the first few encounters be about testing things out and working out the kinks? Or are you getting deeper into it with mathematical probabilities of success and failure, and specific tactics and counter tactics for each foe? (Not that every encounter is a combat though you have lead us to believe it will be...)
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Well, I suspect that converting things from 4e takes some time and effort.
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I can't just plop a couple kobold pikers in and expect them to pose much of a threat. :)
Plus, a lot has been on my plate, between school, some personal issues, and some other things. I'll try to get something up soon. I'm sorry for the wait.
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Oh shit, he's bringing out kobolds against us...
[spoiler]
Class 9 Alert! Everyone to your stations! Eberronian microdragons incoming! We are at DEFCOM 1, I repeat, DEFCOM 1! Hit the enemy with everything you can as fast as you can! This is not a drill!
It was an honor to serve with you, gentlemen.[/spoiler]
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I wish it were a joke. :rollseyes
Seriously though, if any of you are aware of Keep on the Shadowfell, the first leg entails fighting against a lot of kobolds, then against a lot of goblins, hobgoblins, skeletons and the like. It's standard 1st-level stuff. However, for this, since you guys are beginning at such an advanced level, comparatively, the first encounter will be against kobolds with class levels and one or two "lieutenant" type creatures. However, there is going to be a vast departure from the adventure as written after that as the plot thickens. You guys should gain a couple of levels before the end of this leg of the campaign, at least that's the intention.
I hope that's ok with you guys. :)
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I have no problems with kobolds with class levels, except that as TML said:[spoiler]We're toast.[/spoiler] I still think that as far as Camlen is concerned, battle is best served chilled.
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If you're serious, then I think you're overreacting. You guys are level 7 with plenty of special abilities, and you're about to get to town to rest. You guys will be able unleash the big guns on these guys. XD
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But as Camlen is a realist, he knows that any battle can mean death. Not necessarily so in D&D, but he doesn't know he's a character...yet.
And kobolds are very evil-nasty-bad-icky-not-nice lizard-dragons. With traps.
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If you're serious, then I think you're overreacting. You guys are level 7 with plenty of special abilities, and you're about to get to town to rest. You guys will be able unleash the big guns on these guys. XD
Ah. Kobolds.
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc - We gladly feast on those who would subdue us."
Especially true for Mytos!..... well, probably only true for Mytos...
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I think maybe this weekend I'll be able to get something up. A bit busy until then.
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Edit:
It's been a busier weekend than I thought. I'll try to get something up for you guys later on tomorrow/tonight (It's 2:13 am right now, so it's technically Sunday. Sunday night, here. I have work, but after that I should be able to work something out for you).