Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Thistledown Thurbertaut October 06, 2010, 08:46:07 PM
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Heya, so I am wondering if it is possible for one kind of caster to learn spells from another types spell lists.
Specifically is there a way that a Druid could learn Ranger spells, Cleric spells, or (less likely I imagine) arcane spells?
The context is I want to have my Druid learn Tremorsense, which is a ranger 2 spells.
Please advise, and thank you. :)
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Prestige ranger?
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without multiclassing...
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Bump.
Yeah I looked at Prestige Ranger as a dip but it only advances existing spell casting class while adding ranger class features and doesn't say anything about expanding to include the ranger spell list.
Any other ways? I know Archivists can learn spells from any divine source but again a one level dip isn't going to get me 2nd level spells in that class and it sacrifices Druid Caster levels of which my PrC has already sacrificed 2. I can afford a max of one more class dip level before I lose 9th level spells.
Anyone? Is there a way to learn spells from other lists without dipping? Or is this just not somethinhg that is possible in DnD? I think in 2e a wizard could research new spells but Divine Casters don't learn spells they just know them...
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You could use a liberal interpretation of extra spell to pick up that one spell. That will cost you a feat though.
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Bump.
Yeah I looked at Prestige Ranger as a dip but it only advances existing spell casting class while adding ranger class features and doesn't say anything about expanding to include the ranger spell list.
Any other ways? I know Archivists can learn spells from any divine source but again a one level dip isn't going to get me 2nd level spells in that class and it sacrifices Druid Caster levels of which my PrC has already sacrificed 2. I can afford a max of one more class dip level before I lose 9th level spells.
Anyone? Is there a way to learn spells from other lists without dipping? Or is this just not somethinhg that is possible in DnD? I think in 2e a wizard could research new spells but Divine Casters don't learn spells they just know them...
It's listed elsewhere on the page that when taking levels of prestige class X, you add the class' spells to your spell list (at the same time, though, I don't think you use any more favorable levels if it appears on both lists).
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It's listed elsewhere on the page that when taking levels of prestige class X, you add the class' spells to your spell list (at the same time, though, I don't think you use any more favorable levels if it appears on both lists).
I believe it's from a sidebar in UA that was not included in the SRD.
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I don't think that a druid could do it....
You could of course try to UMD a scroll or even better a wand.....
Or if you had an Archivist who can learn all divine spell from all lists and most of the arcane.....
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The sidebar says that PrC ranger gets any Ranger only spells (but not spells Rangers share with other classes).
An easy way to do this would be to be a Kobold and use Sovereign Archtypes to add all Cleric spells to your list. You only need the Dragonwrought feat.
JaronK
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Well that idea is right out. Archivist CAn learn any spell but if I dip it I would only be able to learn any spell up to my Archivist casting level and not my Druid level right?
Also the entry requirments for PrC Ranger suck hairy goat balls. (mental image!)
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Adding the whole list is pretty much limited to PrC Ranger. Archivist base works, so does Sovereign Archetypes. But those aren't what you're looking for.
Drake Helms from... some Eberron book. Explorer's Something? Maybe MoE. I don't remember. Anyways, they add a single spell to your spell list.
You could try adding the spell from a Domain.
You could try talking to the DM and 'researching' the spell and add it to your list at the cost of GP or Time or XP. (DM fiat but supported by text)
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Ok lets say I am Druid 10...then I dip Archivist and get back to Druid...am I limited to learning any Divine spell up to what the Archivist level 1 can cast or does the dip open me up to learn any spell up to my Druid CL?
No researching spells unfortunately for this game. I need to work class or feat finagling here since the DM says that seperate spell lists are the only thing limiting tier 1 power.
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You're limited by your archivist level, of course. Spell lists are class abilities. They don't transfer to other classes.
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Leadership does it.
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By having a cohort who can cast the spell on me? This needs to be self contained.
And yeah I've pretty much given up on the idea. Foiled.
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Is it personal range? If not, you could just use a potion...
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And if it is, you could use a scroll.
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We are playing in dark sun, and such things are rare. i could brew the potion I suppose but doesn;t that require me to know the spell still?
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We are playing in dark sun, and such things are rare. i could brew the potion I suppose but doesn;t that require me to know the spell still?
Since you are playing in Dark Sun, this will likely be impossible, but a one level dip in Archivist, combined with one level of Hathran, ought to do the trick. Does require FR material though, and for you to be a woman (Since your gender is already set, this might be tricky).
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I found a way but the DM will probably nix the idea. Allows me to be an Archivist for the price of 1 feat!
Arcane Disciple from Complete Divine and select the spell domain to add to my list: cast anyspell/greater anyspell.
Edit: Nevermind...it only works if you are ALREADY an arcane caster. Boo..
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I found a way but the DM will probably nix the idea. Allows me to be an Archivist for the price of 1 feat!
Arcane Disciple from Complete Divine and select the spell domain to add to my list: cast anyspell/greater anyspell.
Edit: Nevermind...it only works if you are ALREADY an arcane caster. Boo..
A better option is to take the Spell Domain, and the Customize Domain feat, which was from a Dragon magazine, whose number escapes me at the time (Listening to a lecture atm, or else I'd do some more research for you).
Spell Domain can be obtained using any prestige class that gives it to you. Contemplative?
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Can't enter contemplative since it requires 13 ranks in KNowledge religion which is a cross class skill for Druids.
And Dragon mag stuff is iffy in most games...this DM doesn't allow flaws or LA buyoff or whatnot. In some ways he is very permissove but he has his hands on the reign as well.
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Knowledge devotion adds one knowledge skill as a class skill, which seems like it works pretty well.
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Within your current limitations I think the best way is with a feat found in Lost Empires of Faerun. I forget the name of the feat, but there is one that lets you burn a spell slot one level higher than the normal slot to cast a spell out of a charged item without using the charge. Get a staff with the spell in it (staffs use the better of your caster level or theirs), and a few others you want, and use your slots. You would still need use magic device and some equipment to boost up that skill check (circlet of persuasion). Then you can pick up spells from any list as long as you have the money to buy a staff. Dragon mag free, but campaign specific.
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You could use a liberal interpretation of extra spell to pick up that one spell. That will cost you a feat though.
I honestly believe this is the best plan. If your DM will not allow this interpretation than he probably doesn't want you to have the spell anyway, and the cost is high enough that if he's willing for you to find a way, this is a reasonable way.
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Just use Enhance Wild Shape Spell from SPC and assume a shape with termosense...
Polymorph solves everything.
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Just use Enhance Wild Shape Spell from SPC and assume a shape with termosense...
Polymorph solves everything.
I think he wants to go to town in Dire Bear form and have tremorsense while doing so.
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Actually I gave up Wild Shape in favor of some more useful ACFs for my build which won't progress wild shape enough to make it worthy. I couls burn a feat I guess.
Question: would blindsense work? It's a 3rd level Druid Spell...could that substitute for Tremorsense when moving through the ground?
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more useful than wildshape? pray tell, what acf's were these?
i don't think blindsense works like tremorsense... i thought there was a tremorsense granting spell in the spell compendium....
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It's a ranger spell...hence the title of this thread.
I am playing a Druid 5/Walker in the Wast 10/Druid 5. I would only get an effective Druid level of 10 for Wildshaping and I'll be a Dry Lich anyways. I traded out for the Deadly Hunter ACF, which works better on Dark Sun.
I'm an Asherati so I can burrow through sand and silt but I have to see using a glowing ability. I would like Tremor/Blindsense so I can get surprise by burowing up under people without giving away my position by glowing. Ergo I need Tremorsense or Blindsense if this would let me see who is walking on the surface.
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There's a graft in FF that gives tremorsense.
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There are no illithid on Athas and we can only have two magic items. Plus its weird...
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It's not illithid, and it's technically not magical either.
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Earth Sense feat in Races of Stone.
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It's not illithid, and it's technically not magical either.
Which graft are you referring to then? I'm still 99% sure my DM won't allow it.
Earth Sense feat in Races of Stone.
...does not allow for pinpointing things.
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Maug shudder plate. Only 15 feet, but also only 8000 gp.
Anyway, technically speaking, grafts aren't magical items.
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Earth Sense feat in Races of Stone.
...does not allow for pinpointing things.
Do I need to put together a wall of text explaining lines and planes in three dimensions or can we skip that part and just have you take Earth Sense?
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Earth Sense feat in Races of Stone.
...does not allow for pinpointing things.
Do I need to put together a wall of text explaining lines and planes in three dimensions or can we skip that part and just have you take Earth Sense?
As long as you are touching the ground, you can take a move action to sense the number of creatures within 20 feet that are also touching the ground and the direction to each one. You cannot pinpoint the location of any creature with this feat.
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Earth Sense feat in Races of Stone.
...does not allow for pinpointing things.
Do I need to put together a wall of text explaining lines and planes in three dimensions or can we skip that part and just have you take Earth Sense?
As long as you are touching the ground, you can take a move action to sense the number of creatures within 20 feet that are also touching the ground and the direction to each one. You cannot pinpoint the location of any creature with this feat.
Technically with enough move actions, you could assuming the opponent is stationary.
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Hey TML. While you are here, can I ask you a tangeny? Are there any good ways to render a target flat footed? If I cower someone using Imperious Comand are they considered flat footed?
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As long as you are touching the ground, you can take a move action to sense the number of creatures within 20 feet that are also touching the ground and the direction to each one. You cannot pinpoint the location of any creature with this feat.
Relative position can be expressed as a function of direction and distance. Earth Sense gives you the direction part of the function, while the fact that you're 10' underground (to maximize the radius of Earth Sense) gives you distance. That line merely states that the Earth Sense feat doesn't give you the distance, but if you just set yourself up in a position where you can figure it out yourself, then you can figure out where they are regardless.
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But pinpointing in DnD has a special meaning. It's like with blindsense. You may be able to tell what square they are in, but unless the rules say you can pinpoint you won't be able to target them.
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But pinpointing in DnD has a special meaning. It's like with blindsense. You may be able to tell what square they are in, but unless the rules say you can pinpoint you won't be able to target them.
Even if you can pinpoint them, how are you going to target them through 10' of sand? I'm pretty sure that blocks LOE.
Also, creatures relying on blindsense can target things they can't see as well, they just have to deal with the 50% miss chance (which generally only applies to rays and touch attacks as far as spells go).
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Related to this: how to get a level 2 divinition spell from the ranger list on the wizard list?
What I tried already: UMD is difficult, extra spell disallowed as in "this is not RAI", wyrm wizard costs a caster level, and unseen seer has too steep skill prereqs... any suggestions?
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Cataclysm mage?
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Cataclysm mage?
You have no idea how hard finding that via Google was.
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Found it, but it also looses a caster level, and I can't really see how it would help ???
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Cataclysm mage?
You have no idea how hard finding that via Google was.
This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/prc) can be helpful in situations like that.
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That's exactly where google sent me :)
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I thought it gained an extra spell. Must have misremembered.
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Related to this: how to get a level 2 divinition spell from the ranger list on the wizard list?
What I tried already: UMD is difficult, extra spell disallowed as in "this is not RAI", wyrm wizard costs a caster level, and unseen seer has too steep skill prereqs... any suggestions?
Frankly, I think the easiest answer IS finding the best way to enter Unseen Seer... as I recall, Ruathar has most of the skills as class skills.
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the other way to go about this is to dip 1 level to get a domain that contains the needed spell or anyspell domain. now if you have the ability get knowledge religon to your skill list then go from there. or use anyspell feat if the DM is willing. or maybe you could work on a quest that involves the party to get it added to your list or take scribe scroll and leadership and have your ranger friend help you make the scrolls. only requires 2 days per scroll so its something to do during random down times.