D&D Play-testing [Rebalancing 3.5]

[AlterFrom]

Playing with the new Shield Feats.

[spoiler=Shield Fighter L6]Dwarf Fighter 6
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 6

Init +6   Spot +12, Listen +12
Languages: Common, Dwarfish
HP: 55
AC 29   Touch 11      FF 28
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +3   [+2 vs Poison, +2 vs Spells/Spell-Likes, +]
Melee: Flail +11/(+6), 1d8+5
Ranged: None
BAB: +6/+1   Grapple: +10   Trip: +10 [+14 opposed when on solid ground]
Abilities: Weapon Aptitude, Active Defense, Surprise Lunge
Qualities: Art of War, Battlefield Recon, Stonecunning, Weapon Familiarity(Dwarven Waraxe, Dwarven Urgrosh), Stability
Feats: Exotic Shield Prof (Extreme Shield), Shield Spec (E. Shield), Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (Flail), Hold the Line, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Shield Guard
Flaws: Shaky, Vulnerable
Skills: Craft(Armor) +12, Jump +9, Spot +12, Listen +12, Tumble +7(+15 vs AoOs)
Gear: +1 Full Plate, +1 Flail, +1 Steel Extreme Shield, MW Artisan's Tools, MW Tools (Jump, Listen, Spot, Tumble), 5 Mundane Flails, +2 Gloves of DEX, +2 Belt of STR[/spoiler]

[SKRP]

Basically, one play-test requires only two participants - PCs' operator and monsters' operator. We just need to create standardized map for some virtual rpg table as OpenRPG (because encounters are mostly written by RobbyPants ) and we can start testing sample "battle encounters".

[Kuroimaken]

I'll be making a character myself somewhat shortly. Wait for it.

[AlterFrom]

Basically, one play-test requires only two participants - PCs' operator and monsters' operator. We just need to create standardized map for some virtual rpg table as OpenRPG (because encounters are mostly written by RobbyPants ) and we can start testing sample "battle encounters".

If you're going with a VTT for playtesting, just make the maps decently-high-rez images. I'm pretty sure all the major (if not all) VTTs can import and scale images and/or their grid size. Also, anyone planning to be using the VTT(s) should become familiar with the scripting language of their VTT of choice. I know MapTool, for one, has a rather powerful but complicated macro language; ORPG has something similar I believe.

Or, if you go with one single VTT for all the playtests, you could set up a campaign file (or whatever the VTT of choice calls it) with encounters and maps premade and ready to dump PC tokens onto.

[Soda]

[spoiler=Gnome Wizard 1 by Soda]Gnome Focused Illusionist 1
Str 6 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 10

Init +5   Spot -1, Listen +3
Languages: Common, Gnome, 4 more
HP: 7
AC 12   Touch 12      FF 11
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +1
Speed: 20ft
Melee: Club -4, 1d4-2
Ranged: Ranged touch +1
BAB: +0   Grapple: -6   [Escape Artist +3]   
Abilities:
Qualities: Low-light vision
Feats: Improved Initiative*, Spell Focus (illusion), Greater Spell Focus
Flaws: Noncombatant
Skills: Concentration 4, Spellcraft 4, Know Arcana 4, Other Knowledges 8, Listen 2, Escape Artist 2
Spells: Illusion specialty (DC +3), Enchantment, Necromancy, Abjuration banned
   3   Detect Magic, Sonic Snap, Minor Disguise
   1+3   Silent Image x2, Color Spray x2
Gear:
[/spoiler]

[RobbyPants]

No one has commented one way or the other on the level 1, 6, and 11 encounters I suggested.  I posted them on the front page to find easier.  Assuming I did everything right, each one should be EL-appropriate "by the books", but I guess only play-testing will see.

What are your thoughts?  Are there any obvious holes that should be filled?  I have a feeling these will be much easier than their suggested CR for semi-optimized characters using this system.

[SKRP]

What are your thoughts?  Are there any obvious holes that should be filled?  I have a feeling these will be much easier than their suggested CR for semi-optimized characters using this system.

Yes, they are rather easy, but I hold that majority of players doesn't optimize PCs.

[spoiler=Kobold Warlock 1]Kobold Warlock 1
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 14

Init +3
Languages: Common, Draconic
HP: 8
AC 17   Touch 14      FF 14
Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Melee: Dagger -2, 1d3-1
Ranged: Eldritch Blast +5 1d6+1/x2
BAB: +0   Grapple: -6   [Escape Artist +5]   
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., light sensitivity, natural armor +1
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Ability Focus (eldritch blast)
Flaws: Noncombatant
Skills: Concentration 6, Escape Artist 5, Spellcraft 2,
Invocations: Shocking Blast (DC 14)
Gear: Light Leather
[/spoiler]

[RobbyPants]

I'm wondering if I should stick to the CR system or not.  Perhaps we can run the first seires of tests with them, and then jump up a CR or two as needed?

Also, just to note for character creation, I finally clarifies how iterative attacks work in the Combat & Rules thread as well as the compendium:

Iterative attacks are all -5 from the BAB, instead of a cumulative -5 penalty.  So, a full BAB attack routine at level 20 would be +20/+15/+15/+15 instead of +20/+15/+10/+5

Just as an update: the PDF is coming along nicely.  Basically, I took the compendium I had here, organized it better, and now I have to reformat things, put in actual tables, and proof read things.

[RobbyPants]

Also, SKRP, I think you have two more points to spend on the warlock to get it up to 28 points.

Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 14

Just a reminder: the new racial mod for kobolds are -4 Str, +2 Dex (as I removed the -2 Con penalty).  So, before racial mods, the raw stats for that set would be:

Str 12 (4 pts), Dex 14 (6 pts), Con 14 (6 pts), Int 10 (2 pts), Wis 10 (2 pts), Cha 14 (6 pts), with a total of 26 points.  I'll put it on the front page when you decide where you want those two points to go.

[SKRP]

Sorry for that, I'm usually sticked to 26 point buy.

[spoiler=Kobold Warlock 1]Kobold Warlock 1
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 14

Init +3
Languages: Common, Draconic, one more
HP: 8
AC 17   Touch 14      FF 14
Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Melee: Dagger -2, 1d3-1
Ranged: Eldritch Blast +5 1d6+1/x2
BAB: +0   Grapple: -6   [Escape Artist +5]   
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., light sensitivity, natural armor +1
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Ability Focus (eldritch blast)
Flaws: Noncombatant
Skills: Concentration 6, Escape Artist 5, Spellcraft 3, Use Magic Device 6
Invocations: Shocking Blast (DC 14)
Gear: Light Leather
[/spoiler]

And another warlock - melee type.

[spoiler=Half-orc Warlock 1]Half-orc Warlock 1
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 8

Init +6
Languages: Common, Orc
HP: 11 (+5 temporary hit points)
AC 13   Touch 11      FF 11
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Melee: Great Axe +4 1d12+6/x3
Ranged: Eldritch Blast +2 1d6/x2
BAB: +0   Grapple: +4   
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.
Feats: Improved Initiative, Toughness
Flaws: Vulnerable
Skills: Concentration +6, Spellcraft +4
Invocations: Inhuman Toughness
Gear: Light Leather
[/spoiler]

Edit: Now he should meet the rules.

[RobbyPants]

I'll add the kobold warlock.  The only issue I see with the half orc is that Improved Toughness requires a base Fort of +2.

[bkdubs123]

I have a feeling these will be much easier than their suggested CR for semi-optimized characters using this system.

Since the PCs are using modified feats and rules, etc, you should use the same things with the monsters. I suggest semi-optimizing the encounters. No need to wrack your brain trying to create mobs specifically designed to destroy parties, but there's also no need for every monster in the game to run around with Iron Will to bump that 0 will save to 2, or to have three iterations of Toughness. Just my 2 cents.

[RobbyPants]

Alright!  The PDF is up! 

It's about 400KB, so I can't attach it here.  I've uploaded it at filefactory (you need to enter in a capcha code and follow two links to download it, but it's free, and I don't think you need an account.  Just click "download for free with filefactory basic").  Feel free to let me know of any better places to host this!

PDF Download

[bkdubs123]

Since you mentioned playtesting in the feats thread, and we were talking about Shield Spec, let's bring it here, shall we? At the top of this page is a Level 6 Shield Fighter. He has 29 AC. 29 at level 6!! An Ogre can't possibly hit him, a Shambling Mound hits him on an 18, a Troll hits him on a 20, Babau Demon hits on a 17, and the Dragon hits on a 14. Of course, his touch AC is still quite low, because he hasn't got Shield Ward, but he could have it instead of say... Improved Initiative, and be freaking untouchable!

[SKRP]

Since you mentioned playtesting in the feats thread, and we were talking about Shield Spec, let's bring it here, shall we? At the top of this page is a Level 6 Shield Fighter. He has 29 AC. 29 at level 6!! An Ogre can't possibly hit him, a Shambling Mound hits him on an 18, a Troll hits him on a 20, Babau Demon hits on a 17, and the Dragon hits on a 14. Of course, his touch AC is still quite low, because he hasn't got Shield Ward, but he could have it instead of say... Improved Initiative, and be freaking untouchable!

He has poor battlefield control and low damage. High AC is his main edge.


[spoiler=Human Swashbuckler 6]Human Swashbuckler 6
Str 10 (12) Dex 15 Con 16 (18) Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 8

Init +2
Languages: Common, 3 more
HP: 6d10+24 (59 hp)
AC 21   Touch 15      FF 16
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +3
Melee: Masterwork Spiked Chain +10/+5 , 2d4+6/x2 (trip: +6)
Ranged: Long Bow +6 1d8/x3, 100 ft.
BAB: +6   Grapple: +6 
Abilities: Weapon Aptitude, Active Defense, Canny Defense, Insightful Strike, Art of War +1, Surprise Lunge
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked chain), Improved Trip, Iron Will, Spring Attack, Stand Still, Weapon Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (spiked chain).
Flaws: Shaky
Skills: Balance 7, Craft (armormaking) 12, Craft (weaponmaking) 12, Intimidate 8, Jump 3, Listen 8, Ride 3, Sense Motive 8, Spot 8, Tumble 11
Gear: Masterwork Mithral Light plate (1,5k gp), Masterwork Spiked Chain (100 gp), Amulet of Health +2 (4k gp), Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2 (4k gp), Hat of disguise (1,8k gp) [/spoiler]

[RobbyPants]

I'll add these two to the front.  The level 6 version is a direct progression from the level 1 version.  I gave the level 1 a shield because he can't utilize Power Attack yet.  The level 6 version can use DMM(Quicken) twice per day, has Leap Attack (for up to +16 damage on a charge), and can utilize Rhino Rush as a 1st level spell to further increase this.

[spoiler=Level 1 human cleric by RobbyPants]Human Cleric 1 (Destruction & War domains.  No deity, longsword as favored weapon for lawful alignment)
Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 10

Init +0   Spot +3, Listen +3
Languages: Common
HP: 10
AC 15   Touch 10      FF 15
Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +5
Melee: Longsword +3, 1d8+2
Ranged: Sling -2, 1d4+2, 50ft
BAB: +0   Grapple: +2
Abilities: Turn Undead
Feats: Power Attack, Extra Turning, Quicken Spell (flaw), Skill Focus (Jump)(flaw), Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword)(domain), Weapon Focus (Longsword)(domain)
Flaws: Murkey Eyed, Shaky
Skills: Concentration +6, Jump +10, Knowledge (Religion) +1, Spellcraft +3
Spells:
   0 x 3
   1 x 2
Turn Undead: x 7 per day
 - Heal 1d6/harm undead 1d6 within 30' (DC 10) for half
 - 1d6 damage to non-magical items & constructs within 30' (DC 10) for half
 - Smite (+0 to hit, +1 damage)
Domain Powers:
 - Phyisical attacks ignore 0 hardness and damage reduction
Gear: Full leather armor, Longsword, Light shield w/holy symbol, Spell component pouch x2[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 6 human cleric by RobbyPants]Human Cleric 6 (Destruction & War domains.  No deity, longsword as favored weapon for lawful alignment)
Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 17(19) Cha 10

Init +0   Spot +4, Listen +4
Languages: Common
HP: 42
AC 21   Touch 10      FF 21
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +10
Melee: +1 Longsword (wielded two-handed) +8, 1d8+4
Ranged: MW Sling +3, 1d4+2, 50ft, Lesser Acid Orb +2 touch, 3d8, 40ft
BAB: +4   Grapple: +6
Abilities: Turn Undead, Quicken spell for 5 turn attempts, Power Attack up to -4/+8 (-4/+16 Leap Attack)
Feats: Power Attack, Extra Turning, Quicken Spell (flaw), Skill Focus (Jump)(flaw), Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword)(domain), Weapon Focus (Longsword)(domain), Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell), Leap Attack (domain), Extra Turning
Flaws: Murkey Eyed, Shaky
Skills: Concentration +11, Jump +14, Knowledge (Religion) +1, Spellcraft +9
Spells:
   0 x 5
   1 x 4
   2 x 4
   3 x 3
Turn Undead: x 11 per day
 - Heal 6d6/harm undead 6d6 within 30' (DC 13) for half
 - 6d6 damage to non-magical items & constructs within 30' (DC 13) for half
 - Smite (+0 to hit, +6 damage)
Domain Powers:
 - Phyisical attacks ignore 3 hardness and damage reduction
Gear: +1 Fullplate, +1 Longsword, MW sling, Periat of Wisdom +2, Cloak of Resitance +1, Ammulet of Natural Armor +1, holy symbol x2, Spell component pouch x2[/spoiler]

[AlterFrom]

Since you mentioned playtesting in the feats thread, and we were talking about Shield Spec, let's bring it here, shall we? At the top of this page is a Level 6 Shield Fighter. He has 29 AC. 29 at level 6!! An Ogre can't possibly hit him, a Shambling Mound hits him on an 18, a Troll hits him on a 20, Babau Demon hits on a 17, and the Dragon hits on a 14. Of course, his touch AC is still quite low, because he hasn't got Shield Ward, but he could have it instead of say... Improved Initiative, and be freaking untouchable!

He has poor battlefield control and low damage. High AC is his main edge.

Yep. His main shtick is to use Shield Guard to intercept charges and/or give extra AC to allies while trying to trip any opponent he can.

[Kuroimaken]

I'm thinking of building a paladin. I'll make him at level 1 and then his progression at level 6. Not sure of race yet, but I'll work on it. Promise.

[Soda]

[spoiler=Half-Orc Druid 1]Half-Orc Druid 1
Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8

Init +2   Spot +2, Listen +6  Darkvision 60ft
Languages: Common, Orc
HP: 23
AC 16   Touch 12      FF 14
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +4
Speed: 30ft
Melee: Spear +3, 1d8+4, 20/x3
   (Predator form) Bite +5, 1d6+7
Ranged: Spear +2, 1d8+4, 20ft
BAB: +0   Grapple: +3
Abilities: Shapeshift (predator form), Wild Empathy
Qualities Nature Sense
Feats: Toughness, Improved Toughness
Flaws: Murky-Eyed
Skills: [-2 ACP] Concentration 4, Know Nature 4, Listen 4, Survival 4
Spells:
   0 x 3   Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Guidance, Resistance, Know Direction
   1 x 2   Obscuring Mist, Faerie Fire, Entangle
Shapeshift: Swift action, at will.
 - Predator Form: Bite attack 1d6, +4 Str, +4 natural armor, 50' speed.
Gear: Full leather armor, Spear x2, Spell component pouch x2[/spoiler]


I think I'm gonna move on to evoker next. Magic Missiles knock people prone now...

[SKRP]

[spoiler=Human Swashbuckler 6]Human Swashbuckler 6
Str 10 (12) Dex 15 Con 16 (18) Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 8

Init +2
Languages: Common, 3 more
HP: 6d10+24 (59 hp)
AC 21   Touch 15      FF 16
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +3
Melee: Masterwork Spiked Chain +10/+5 , 2d4+6/x2 (trip: +6)
Ranged: Long Bow +6 1d8/x3, 100 ft.
BAB: +6   Grapple: +6 
Abilities: Weapon Aptitude, Active Defense, Canny Defense, Insightful Strike, Art of War +1, Surprise Lunge
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked chain), Improved Trip, Iron Will, Spring Attack, Stand Still, Weapon Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (spiked chain).
Flaws: Shaky
Skills: Balance 7, Craft (armormaking) 12, Craft (weaponmaking) 12, Intimidate 8, Jump 3, Listen 8, Ride 3, Sense Motive 8, Spot 8, Tumble 11
Gear: Masterwork Mithral Light plate (1,5k gp), Masterwork Spiked Chain (100 gp), Amulet of Health +2 (4k gp), Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2 (4k gp), Hat of disguise (1,8k gp) [/spoiler]

[spoiler=Half-orc Warlock 1]Half-orc Warlock 1
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 8

Init +6
Languages: Common, Orc
HP: 11 (+5 temporary hit points)
AC 13   Touch 11      FF 11
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Melee: Great Axe +4 1d12+6/x3
Ranged: Eldritch Blast +2 1d6/x2
BAB: +0   Grapple: +4   
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.
Feats: Improved Initiative, Toughness
Flaws: Vulnerable
Skills: Concentration +6, Spellcraft +4
Invocations: Inhuman Toughness
Gear: Light Leather
[/spoiler]