D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]

[SiggyDevil]

Careful with those granted Immunities.

[RobbyPants]

Hmmm... Looking up at Surging Magic, I wonder if 13th level isn't a bit too high to grant a +2 to DC? Though I guess that depends on how you intend to get rid of the ludicrously high save DCs one can attain sometimes.

Yeah.  I placed the abilities based on empty points in the sorcerer's progression.  It could be reworked a bit.  I figured if I was going to leave any spot empty, I wanted it to be on an even level, where they pick up a new level of spells.

Careful with those granted Immunities.

For the capstones?  I don't think a single energy immunity at 20th level is a problem, especially if they've already been working up a resistance to said energy.  Granted, I don't think I want to give the sorcerer a new type (dragon, outsider, etc) all willy nilly, because they involve several more immunities.

[Kuroimaken]

Careful with those granted Immunities.

I believe this is going in the MM revision about types?

[RobbyPants]

I've added some new heritage feats in the Feats thread.  I'll probably use abilities from these as a base-line for the cap stones.

[SiggyDevil]

No, not types. The Sorcerer ceases to be Humanoid (by default, usually) if they become Dragon or Outsider.

With (type)-blooded they instead count as the new type whenever beneficial, but numerically and for all other effects count as their main type.

[veekie]

In that case just add [Type]-blooded to all the basic heritage feats then.

[RobbyPants]

So, currently the base Elemental Heritage feat gives water heritage the Natural Swimmer ability, and the Elemental Mobility feat gives an increase to the speed.  Currently, there is no water breathing ability.

I want to change that, but I'm a little torn on how to do it.  If I grant water breathing in the base heritage feat (without natural swimmer), it seems a bit weak.  Maybe it's just fine.  Should natural swimmer be moved to the Elemental Mobility feat?  It seems somewhat weak.

Maybe, instead, I need some sort of Elemental Mastery feat, which grants an entirely different ability to each type; not necessarily mobility.  Maybe it'd look something like:
-Air: Flight is too much.  What would work here?
-Earth: +1 natural armor (stacks).  Maybe a bigger boost to NA, with a -10 penalty on base land speed.
-Fire: +1 damage per die on all [fire] spells.
-Water: Natural Swimmer

[Kuroimaken]

How about giving the sorcerer a transformation ability of sorts? Turning into an elemental of your own HD isn't really half bad for a feat at that point.

[Risada]

How about giving the sorcerer a transformation ability of sorts? Turning into an elemental of your own HD isn't really half bad for a feat at that point.

Instead of transformation, how about a physical manifestation of the Sorc's heritage? Say, a fire elemental-blooded sorc gets enveloped in flames, an earth elemental-blooded would have rocky skin, and so on? Full transformation is quite a big stuff to pull with the power of the blood only....

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what I want the feats to be able to do, and what I want the sorcerer's capstone to be.

[ZeroSum]

I would say give Natural Swimmer and Water Breathing in the Water base heritage feat and give either Breathless or Flight in the Air base heritage feat.

The reasoning would be that neither Swimming nor Water Breathing are common, necessary or particularly useful.  They're lifesavers only situationally.  Flight, however, is almost universally useful. (More useful than when swimming isn't since you can fly over water as well as swim through it.  Swim only wins underwater.)  Breathless, likewise, has a superset of uses over Water Breathing.  Anywhere you'd want to be Water Breathing you'd rather be Breathless.  The only place you'd want to be Water Breathing or Breathless is, again, underwater.

So since the water abilities are rather useless and the air are overuseful, just give more water abilities.  Earth could get a scaling Natural Armor.  I don't think there should be a penalty to land speed regardless.  I agree that Fire could get get a damage die increase, possibly scaling, and be balanced against Earth's ability.

[RobbyPants]

I don't want to hand out flight (at least not permanent flight) as a feat.  I also don't want to hand out a very useful version of it available at 1st level.  With the mobility feat (based off of Dracoinic Flight), at 1st level you'd only be able to fly 10 feet in a round, and that's only on a round you cast a spell.

[JaronK]

I don't want to hand out flight (at least not permanent flight) as a feat.

Are you aware of the Dragon Wings feat?  It's got some steep requirements, but it does indeed grant permanent flight as a feat.  Might be nice to look at for balance reasons.

JaronK

[AndyJames]

So, currently the base Elemental Heritage feat gives water heritage the Natural Swimmer ability, and the Elemental Mobility feat gives an increase to the speed.  Currently, there is no water breathing ability.

I want to change that, but I'm a little torn on how to do it.  If I grant water breathing in the base heritage feat (without natural swimmer), it seems a bit weak.  Maybe it's just fine.  Should natural swimmer be moved to the Elemental Mobility feat?  It seems somewhat weak.

Maybe, instead, I need some sort of Elemental Mastery feat, which grants an entirely different ability to each type; not necessarily mobility.  Maybe it'd look something like:
-Air: Flight is too much.  What would work here?
-Earth: +1 natural armor (stacks).  Maybe a bigger boost to NA, with a -10 penalty on base land speed.
-Fire: +1 damage per die on all [fire] spells.
-Water: Natural Swimmer

Windwall or Gust of Wind effect?

[SiggyDevil]

How about giving the sorcerer a transformation ability of sorts? Turning into an elemental of your own HD isn't really half bad for a feat at that point.

As long as the caster is temporarily and completely replaced with an average elemental of appropriate CR for a 1v1 encounter, it's fine. They could even revert back uninjured if the elemental's HP runs out in combat, but it would be rendered unavailable until the next day.

You can avoid the "spellcasting troll" problem that way.

[veekie]

I think for Air, the Dragon Wing feat(and it's improved version) are worth looking into. It starts by basically dealing with falling, and improves to limited flight and then true flight over the course of a bunch of levels. The breathless thing is neat as the initial heritage benefit though.

Don't like the transformation ability though, being a sorceror, they can do something like that with a bunch of transmutations already, and it's pretty situational in benefit.

[SiggyDevil]

Yeah but it would be as much elemental forming as you want!

Dragon Wings is a good starting point.
It starts small, scales well at at the right times, although the whole limited flight thing needs rethinking for duration.

[RobbyPants]

I haven't written it up yet, but I was thinking of making a summoning elemental heritage feat.  Basically, I was thinking you could burn a spell slot to use the corresponding Summon Monster X spell, but only to summon an elemental of your type.  Looking at the Summon Monster lists, it looks like it'd only be applicable at spell levels 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.

I don't want to hand out flight (at least not permanent flight) as a feat.

Are you aware of the Dragon Wings feat?  It's got some steep requirements, but it does indeed grant permanent flight as a feat.  Might be nice to look at for balance reasons.

JaronK

Not specifically.  I checked it out in the feat index, and the text it gave was "Your draconic ancestry manifests as a pair of wings that aid your jumps and allow you to glide."

Is this one of those things that grants flight once you hit 5th level?

Windwall or Gust of Wind effect?

What are you thinking?  X per day or per encounter abilities?  Probably not at will, compared to the other three elements powers.

[veekie]

[RobbyPants]

Mephits!  Ha!  I didn't even think of that.  Good catch.