D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]

[RobbyPants]

This is way off topic, but I was thinknig about sorcerers in another thread.

They are obviously hurt in terms of versatility compared to a wizard.  Also, they get no class features after 1st level.  Now, I've proposed some bonus feats similar to the wizard, but there's still little reason to advance the class and not PrC out.

How about giving them a class feature sprinkled through some of their levels that grants them a new spell known?  Perhaps it'd be as simple as giving the Extra Spell feat several times.  The idea is two-fold:
1) It helps make them more versatile.
2) Without actually editing the Spells Known table, this would make these additions inaccessable to PrCs.

I haven't figured out an exact number of extra spells to grant.  I was thinking something like five or six times through out the first 20 levels.  What are your thoughts on this?

[veekie]

Hmm, the most common ones I've seen around involve giving sorcs a Heritage, which ends up with limited access(1/spell level I think) to other classes spell lists, on top of some heritage based powers. Makes sorcs a bit more interesting, and is what I think the Paizo bunch ended up adopting(though their implementation could use a lot of work).

[RobbyPants]

Well, I already suggested some heritage (or non-heritage) based bonus feats on the first page.  I just figured some extra spells gained as class abilities might help too.  I just don't want to overdo it.

Core Classes

...

Sorcerer
- A sorcerer must choose whether or not to have a special heritage when he takes his first sorcerer level. 
- If the sorcerer chooses a heritage, he gains the appropriate heritage feat (Draconic Heritage for dragon ancestors, Celestial Heritage for celestial ancestors, etc) at 1st level.  He gains an additional heritage feat of the same type at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
- If he chooses not to have a heritage, he gains Eschew Materials at 1st level, and an item creation or metamagic feat at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.

- Most other changes will come in the form of changed spells.

[veekie]

The implementations I've seen tend to be more of unique class features, but yeah, that works well enough, plus picking spells cross lists tend to end up with some interesting effects, and is as such problematic anyway. Gaining extra spells on top of a heritage does nicely.

[Kuroimaken]

How about giving them free uses of metamagic feats every few levels? Like so:

Surging magic: a sorcerer's body pulses with power. Beginning at X level, choose one metamagic feat the sorcerer knows. He can apply the benefit of that feat without altering the cost of the spell slot a number of times equal to 1+Cha modifier. At Y, Z, and W level, choose an additional feat.

This could be in addition to Extra spell and/or other bonus feats. I'd go with a class like that until 20th level.

[RobbyPants]

Here's a preliminary write-up (credit to Kuroimaken for the basic idea of Surging Magic):

Sorcerer

Level  Special
____________________________________________
1      Summon Familiar, Bonus Feat
2      Extra Spell
3      Surging Magic (caster level)
4      
5      Bonus Feat
6      
7      Extra Spell
8      
9      Surging Magic (spontaneous metamagic)
10     Bonus Feat
11     Extra Spell
12     
13     Surging Magic (DC)
14     
15     Bonus Feat
16     
17     Extra Spell
18     
19     Surging Magic (improved metamagic)
20     Bonus Feat
____________________________________________

Summon Familiar
Per the PHB

Bonus Feat
At first level the sorcerer chooses whether or not he has a special heritage. 

A sorcerer with a special heritage gains the heritage feat of that type at first level as a bonus feat.  So a sorcerer who has choses draconic as his special heritage gains the Draconic Heritage feat.  Every fifth level, the sorcerer gains a new heritage feat of the same type as a bonus feat.

A sorcerer without a special heritage gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at first level.  Every fifth level, the sorcerer gains a metamagic or item creation feat as a bonus feat.

Extra Spell
At 2nd level, the sorcerer learns a new spell of any level he could cast from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.  This increases his spells known.  The sorcerer can choose to replace this spell on an even numbered level just like any other spell he knows.  The sorcerer gains an additional extra spell at levels 7, 11, and 17.

Surging Magic
The sorcerer gains a number of magic surges per day equal to half his class level, rounded down (minimum of 1) plus his Charisma modifier.  Only one magic surge can be used per round.

At 3rd level, the sorcerer can use a magic surge to increase his caster level by +1 during the casting of a spell.

At 9th level, the sorcerer can use a magic surge to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat to a spell without increasing its casting time.

At 13th level, the sorcerer can use a magic surge to increase the DC of a spell by +2.

At 19th level, the sorcerer can use two magic surges to apply a metamagic feat to a spell without increasing the spell's level.

[veekie]

I'd play this, though maybe not all the way to 20, since the bonus heritage feat at 20 is kinda meh. Probably 15+ archmage, or some other PrC.

Perhaps something special for their Heritage to capstone?

[SiggyDevil]

That forced-Heritage Sorc works, Rob.

However they should all get Eschew Materials since cheap material components are usually hand-waved or ignored in settings outright, and for good reason.

[RobbyPants]

I'd play this, though maybe not all the way to 20, since the bonus heritage feat at 20 is kinda meh. Probably 15+ archmage, or some other PrC.

Perhaps something special for their Heritage to capstone?

There could be.  I thought of that, but I quickly posted it, holding to the five-level scheme of the bonus feats.  What would be a good capstone for a heritage?  Should this be written up separately for each heritage?  What about a capstone for a sorcerer without a heritage?

[RabidPirateMan]

Type change as a capstone?  So, for fiendish heritage, you become an outsider, and blah blah blah?

As per the wildshape ranger... Robby, would you be alright with me starting a Rebalancing the MM thread?  Not only would it fix shit like polymorph and wildshape, it would get insane stuff like the pitiful Ogre Magi and the overpowered Boneclaw straight. 

[SiggyDevil]

Type change as a capstone?  So, for fiendish heritage, you become an outsider, and blah blah blah?

As per the wildshape ranger... Robby, would you be alright with me starting a Rebalancing the MM thread?  Not only would it fix shit like polymorph and wildshape, it would get insane stuff like the pitiful Ogre Magi and the overpowered Boneclaw straight. 

Perhaps not type change as much as subtype addition. It opens new paths rather than apply vulnerabilities.

For instance a Sorc becoming true Dragon type is affected by Dragon-bane weapons and Ranger bonus.
A Sorc that gets Dragonblood or similar counts as Dragon whenever doing so is beneficial.

[RabidPirateMan]

Type change as a capstone?  So, for fiendish heritage, you become an outsider, and blah blah blah?

As per the wildshape ranger... Robby, would you be alright with me starting a Rebalancing the MM thread?  Not only would it fix shit like polymorph and wildshape, it would get insane stuff like the pitiful Ogre Magi and the overpowered Boneclaw straight. 

Perhaps not type change as much as subtype addition. It opens new paths rather than apply vulnerabilities.

For instance a Sorc becoming true Dragon type is affected by Dragon-bane weapons and Ranger bonus.
A Sorc that gets Dragonblood or similar counts as Dragon whenever doing so is beneficial.

Yeah, that.

[RobbyPants]

As per the wildshape ranger... Robby, would you be alright with me starting a Rebalancing the MM thread?  Not only would it fix shit like polymorph and wildshape, it would get insane stuff like the pitiful Ogre Magi and the overpowered Boneclaw straight. 

Go ahead.  Depending on what gets changed, I can always include it in the compendium or something.  I wasn't planning on changing too much in the MM, but I'm sure some things could be visited.

[veekie]

They get dragonblood from draconic heritage already though.
I'm thinking of taking the most iconic of the heritage feat powers and improving it, so a dragonblood sorceror could for example, get a more badass(or a non spell slot draining) breath/wings.

[RobbyPants]

I have the draconic capstone roughly complete.  The others are still in the works.  I don't know what (if any) damage dealing effect I'd grant some of the types.  I'm also at a loss for a non-heritage capstone.  Some aweome metamagic ability the likes of which no one has ever seen?

Draconic

• Gain immunity to your energy type. 
• Gain wings that grant a fly speed equal to your base speed with average maneuverability.
• Gain a breath weapon (120 foot line or 60 foot cone) that deals 10d6 damage.  Refelx save DC 10 + 1/2 sorcerer level + Cha mod for half damage.

Celestial

• Gain immunity to acid, cold,or electricity. 
• Gain wings that grant a fly speed equal to your base speed with average maneuverability.
• Gain XXX that deals 10d6 damage.  Refelx save DC 10 + 1/2 sorcerer level + Cha mod for half damage.

Infernal

• Gain immunity to fire. 
• Gain wings that grant a fly speed equal to your base speed with average maneuverability.
• Gain XXX that deals 10d6 damage.  Refelx save DC 10 + 1/2 sorcerer level + Cha mod for half damage.

Abbysal*

• Gain immunity to electricity. 
• Gain wings that grant a fly speed equal to your base speed with average maneuverability.
• Gain XXX that deals 10d6 damage.  Refelx save DC 10 + 1/2 sorcerer level + Cha mod for half damage.

Fey

• Gain immunity to mind-affecting effects. 
• Gain wings that grant a fly speed equal to your base speed with average maneuverability?  Do wings fit?
• What about an attack?  Charm Person at will, with a DC of 10 + 1/2 sorcerer level + Cha mod?

* I think I'd need to write up some feats for this.

[veekie]

Some Fey do the butterfly wings gig, so it's alright, though they have a LOT of variety.

The magic one...take a leaf out of the Archmage and turn a spell/spell slot(difference lies between at will and limited use) into an SLA?

[RobbyPants]

Also, do we want to grant a type as the capstone?  It involves a slew of immunities, which are different per type.

Some Fey do the butterfly wings gig, so it's alright, though they have a LOT of variety.

True true.

The magic one...take a leaf out of the Archmage and turn a spell/spell slot(difference lies between at will and limited use) into an SLA?

That could work.  I didn't even think to rip off some archmage stuff.

[veekie]

Granting a type...too complicated I think, you get anywhere from lots of stuff(elementals, if elemental heritages are added, have immunities that shouldn't be given away like that) to anemic(what do fey get?).

Oh right, Elemental bloodlines?

[RobbyPants]

I've actually thought about elemental ones too.

Over a year ago I started a write up of various heritage feats that I never finished.  Basically, I was planning on using the Draconic feats as-is, and I used them as a metric for the others.  I like the mechanic those feats used.  That's one thing I didn't like about the Complete Mage Fiendish and Fey heriteage feats.

So, if I dig up the old Word file, I might be able to finish them up and post them here.  Really, I like the three types of heritage feats from Complete Arcane:

• Offers a static bonus based on the number of heritage feats.
• Gives you an ability after casting a standard action spell, based on the spell's level .
• Burn a spell slot to trigger an ability.

I also like the ones that add a few spells to your spells known list.

[Kuroimaken]

Hmmm... Looking up at Surging Magic, I wonder if 13th level isn't a bit too high to grant a +2 to DC? Though I guess that depends on how you intend to get rid of the ludicrously high save DCs one can attain sometimes.