D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]

[RabidPirateMan]

Hrmmm...

I dunno; Rangers are supposed to be good against 'certain' foes...  If we make everything a knowledge check, the Ranger loses his racist appeal.

What if we clumped more things together?  Instead of Favored Enemy- Orcs, why not Favored Enemy- Humanoids?  That'd certainly help Mr. I'm-Only-Good-At-Killing-Lizardmen.

[RobbyPants]

Might as well increase the favored enemy bonuses by +2 just so it remains even. Also, the one thing I kinda dislike about favored enemy bonuses is that they're campaign-dependent: you might run into a lot of undead one day and zilch the next, for example. This means we should give the ranger the opportunity to switch who it applies to sometimes. Two suggestions in that venue: allow the ranger to spend one hour researching a new enemy (likely one he's fought before), OR allow him to switch it on the fly with a successful Survival check based on HD?

I like both of those suggestions.  I think Survival could be more useful on short notice, and every ranger maxes it out anyway.

But we are gonna rip off the exact same effects from Dark Knowledge and adapt them into the Ranger?

Some of the effects need to be pumped (Tactics and Foreknowledge starting at +2 and increasing by +1 for every 10 points more than the DC, for example).

Anyway, I like where this is going...

I guess it's possible to make archivist like abilities, but I'd rather keep using the ranger's favored enemy bonus.

I'm not sure what Kuroimaken was suggesting with Survival.  Is the DC to switch types?  Does the DC trigger higher bonuses? 

Maybe you roll Survival to determine how high the bonus is.  The ranger can gain the bonus on any creature type,  but he gets a bonus to the Survival roll when attacking a creature of a type he's chosen.  Thus, he can hunt anything fairly well, but he's just better skilled at hunting certain things.  So, at 1st level and every 5th level, he gets to pick a new type.

Just some example numbers:  Perhaps he adds a +2 bonus to all relavent rolls if he makes a Survival check DC 25.  Every five points thereafter, he adds another +2.  He gets a +10 bonus to the Survival check against a favored enemy.  The numbers work out fairly well in a basic sense (figure roughly +6 Survival at 1st level, +10 for favored enemy bonus, averages a 26-27 Survival check), but I think they might fall apart at higher levels.  It's very easy to boost a skill check into the stratosphere.  Still, is an idea similar to this worth persuing?

[Kuroimaken]

Actually, my initial idea was: pump up the bonuses, Survival check to switch types on the fly. Mimicking the Archivist's Dark Knowledge sounds good as well (except with higher bonuses, since you apply it only to yourself).

[Elennsar]

I see no one cares for the Chosen Prey. Shame, it avoids the skill-checks-rising-way-too-high.

[Risada]

I see no one cares for the Chosen Prey. Shame, it avoids the skill-checks-rising-way-too-high.

Did you put a link to this before? I didn't see it...

[Elennsar]

[Risada]

But it needs some work on the wording (Wilderness Lore?  ), and see everyone's opinions on this stuff...

Now I don't know what to do with the Ranger...

[Elennsar]

It does need some work, but we all know how to do that.   

Personally, I'd suggest the Bushfighter instead of the existing ranger, but it is a bit underpowered.

Needs more umph.

Thus, suggesting this ability to replace favored enemy.

[Eldariel]

[Elennsar]

Aragorn does make a comment about being very familiar with hunting orcs to Eomer, but that's probably "I have a lot of experience. Shut up youngin'."

Legolas, I don't know. Drizzt...nah.

[Eldariel]

Aragorn is also really good with the Ringwraiths. And Trolls. And Humans... And well, every creature in existence. So just 'cause he's good vs. Orcs isn't really saying much

[veekie]

I'm thinking it won't be an assortment of knowledge checks, just survival to reassign your current favored foe. Consider it one of the benefits they should have for an ability that only works on themselves and for being a class that simply lacks the requisite high int or knowledge class skills to pick up more than one knowledge skill. Hes just that good at enemy vulnerabilities, much like how rogues don't need anatomy lessons for anything with a remotely normal physiology to sneak attack. A feat to get an extra bonus on certain types of creatures is fine though.

What action to switch favored enemies?

[Elennsar]

Right. Still, he comments on being an expert hunter of orcs, but not of "everything else", so I would not hesitate to give him a bonus vs. orcs.

Provided it didn't gimp him elsewhere.

[SiggyDevil]

What does an anti-orc Ranger do when all the orcs they hate are dead?

Hop dimensions and hunt more, or swap out hatred?

You need versatility options built in to the class without using retraining rules.

[Elennsar]

Hence my suggestion of the chosen prey ability, Siggy.

[SiggyDevil]

Ah I see the post now. Thanks.

That should work. Vote: in.

[JaronK]

I think switching favored enemies should take a while... an hour, like the Warblade's retraining abilities.  He becomes one with the enemies he plans to fight, then he stalks and kills them.  Rangers are hunters afterall... it makes sense that they have to prepare a bit.

JaronK

[Kuroimaken]

The bonuses for Chosen Prey seem... awfully small.

What action to switch favored enemies?

Well, my initial suggestion was an hour. Though if you ask me, that's still a bit on the shafting side - how the heck does the ranger know what he's going to fight the next day?

How about a full-round action, but he can only have one favored enemy at a time?

As for Knowledge checks: main problem with that is that it kills some Ranger versatility. Think about it. Right now they have 6 skill points. They'll max out survival for sure. Spot and Listen are always good for a warrior type to have, so that's two more. Barring ranged specialization, they'll probably want Hide and Move Silently as well... if we make them need Knowledges on top of that to be effective, we might be putting a bit of MAD on the ranger, honestly.

[Elennsar]

Keep in mind that it (the Bushfighter) is a 3e class, so boost them up. I'm suggesting it as an example of an alternate "how it works" (including and emphasing how it can be shifted to new enemies), not "how much you get".

[SiggyDevil]

1 hour to clear the anti-racial focus, 1 full-round to refocus it.