Author Topic: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]  (Read 251359 times)

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veekie

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1340 on: December 05, 2008, 02:40:58 PM »
Well, going with 2x HD in temp hp could probably go on top of hp increase from the Con boost(giving you more hp overall, but a lesser recovery rate), while tying it to the Con boost from rage would recover faster, but have the same amount of hp increase as normal raging.

I'd say the former is easier to write at least.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Kuroimaken

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1341 on: December 05, 2008, 03:20:38 PM »
I'd say it should be either easy to understand, or at least have the value listed as a column in the table.  Even still, almost anything I've seen in existing classes has some easy to derive formula.

What I posted earlier was just a list of temp HP granted from rage in the first place.  Those values came from the HP you'd get from the Con increase in the PHB verion of rage.  With a +4 boost to Con, you get 2 x HD HP.  At level 11, you get Greater Rage, which gives you a +6 boost to Con (x3 HD HP).  At 20th level, the boost increases to +8 Con (x4 HD HP).

Of course, that progression has two very solid jumps (levels 11 and 20).  It could be a more linear scale, and I'd probaby be fine with it.  Even something as simple as 2 x HD the whole way isn't too bad.  It's 40 HP at level 20.  Nothing awesome, but it's just a progression of a lower level ability.

At level 20, you really should be getting more bang for your buck than that.

Which reminds me, we don't have a capstone for the barbarian yet.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1342 on: December 05, 2008, 03:30:48 PM »
I agree that mighty rage isn't much of a capstone.  It's nice, but it's not that great.

What kinds of things do we want a 20th level barbarian to do?

He's already got good offensive capabilities, so I don't think he needs much help in that department.  Perhaps an ability to ignore crits with a Fort save while raging?  Regeneration?  I'm having trouble thinking up something good.

Also, another idea I just had: how about somewhere between levels 10 and 15 the barbarian picks up the abilty to get an effect similar to Haste (which wouldn't stack with Haste) for a brief while when raging?  This could be a per-day ability that increases with levels.  Maybe it's per encounter so it can be used with each Rage, but with a short duration.  Sometimes, it seems like getting enough good scaling abilities lessens the need for a capstone, so a more minor capstone would suffice.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1343 on: December 05, 2008, 04:36:37 PM »
I agree that mighty rage isn't much of a capstone.  It's nice, but it's not that great.

What kinds of things do we want a 20th level barbarian to do?

He's already got good offensive capabilities, so I don't think he needs much help in that department.  Perhaps an ability to ignore crits with a Fort save while raging?  Regeneration?  I'm having trouble thinking up something good.

Also, another idea I just had: how about somewhere between levels 10 and 15 the barbarian picks up the abilty to get an effect similar to Haste (which wouldn't stack with Haste) for a brief while when raging?  This could be a per-day ability that increases with levels.  Maybe it's per encounter so it can be used with each Rage, but with a short duration.  Sometimes, it seems like getting enough good scaling abilities lessens the need for a capstone, so a more minor capstone would suffice.

The problem with the barbarian is that his whole schtick is "Hulk gets mad. Hulk SMASH!" and that makes it hard to imagine a good capstone for him.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Risada

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1344 on: December 05, 2008, 06:03:53 PM »
How about making him deal extra damage while raging, or maybe immunity to some plain stuff while raging?

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1345 on: December 05, 2008, 07:21:13 PM »
How about this?  The barbarian gets the ability to gain Haste for one round during Rage at level 8.  The Haste can be used for two rounds (not necessarily back to back) at level 12 and three rounds at level 16.  At 20th level, the barbarian can use Haste as often as he wants during Rage.  This effect does not stack with any other abilty that grants Haste.

Also, at 4th level, the barbarian is immune to fear when raging (which is close the the paladin getting this at level 3).

Now, I still haven't removed the Trap Sense ability, because with the suggested changes to the fast healing, I'm not sure what to replace it with.  I could probably just drop it if I came up with an ability for 9th and 18th level.  Perhaps those two levels could be levels when the temporary HP healing increases.  Anyway, here's what the progression would look like at this point:

[spoiler=Barbarian]
1   Fast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/encounter
2   Uncanny dodge
3   Trap sense +1, Rage (Mettle)
4   Rage +2 rounds, Rage (Fear Immune)
5   Improved uncanny dodge
6   Trap sense +2, PounceRage (Damage Reduction)
8   Rage +4 rounds, Rage (Haste, 1)Greater rage
12  Rage +6 rounds, trap sense +4, Rage (Haste, 2)Rage (Improved Mettle)Rage +8 rounds, Rage (Haste, 3)Mighty rage, Rage +10 rounds, Rage (Haste, continuous)


Bold = different from PHB
Red = new change
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 07:25:31 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1346 on: December 05, 2008, 11:49:11 PM »
Haste, huh, seems to fit at least.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Kuroimaken

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1347 on: December 06, 2008, 02:10:09 AM »
Quote
How about making him deal extra damage while raging, or maybe immunity to some plain stuff while raging?

The Barbarian doesn't really need more damage. He needs more stuff to do WHILE raging. Immunities have been suggested, I just don't know how far it went...
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Risada

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1348 on: December 06, 2008, 02:49:06 AM »
Quote
How about making him deal extra damage while raging, or maybe immunity to some plain stuff while raging?

The Barbarian doesn't really need more damage. He needs more stuff to do WHILE raging. Immunities have been suggested, I just don't know how far it went...

Maybe the barb could be immune to poison? (the guy is so angry that he "forgets" of the poison he was just struck...)

Kuroimaken

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1349 on: December 06, 2008, 03:39:47 AM »
Quote
How about making him deal extra damage while raging, or maybe immunity to some plain stuff while raging?

The Barbarian doesn't really need more damage. He needs more stuff to do WHILE raging. Immunities have been suggested, I just don't know how far it went...

Maybe the barb could be immune to poison? (the guy is so angry that he "forgets" of the poison he was just struck...)

Or his blood runs so fast the venom runs its course without dealing damage of any kind.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


veekie

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1350 on: December 06, 2008, 04:08:36 AM »
Well, the Haste one is cool, but unless you start dipping into the supernatural, there seems to be a deficiency in "cool things to do while really angry". How about giving them a Resurgence ability while raging? Reroll the save for an effect every round to shrug it off.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1351 on: December 06, 2008, 11:13:19 AM »
I think we might have discussed something like Resurgence before.  With Mettle and Improved Mettle, is it all that necessary?  What level might you grant something like this?  10-15ish?

I went with Haste because I felt it fit thematically as well as I think it gives a solid boost to the class.  An extra attack at your full BAB is nothing to scoff at.  If a barbarian can use Haste as long as he wants when raging at 20th level, I think it's a decent capstone.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1352 on: December 06, 2008, 12:13:30 PM »
Well, the Haste should be enough, just tossing out suggestions to go with the 'shrugging off poisons' stuff.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1353 on: December 08, 2008, 09:44:32 AM »
It could be handy.  I'm just wondering how much is already handled by the Fort increase you get while raging.  Technically, you get better at resisting poisons, but is it good enough?

I'm inclinded to say yes, so long as we don't feel we need to add anything else to the class.  All I can think about doing is figuring out how many temp HP we really want to grant (per round at this point), remove Trap Sense, and find something to fill in the would-be dead levels of 9 and 18.  I'm thinking of filling them with a quicker scaling of temp HP.  Perhaps those levels are when you jump from x2 to x3 and x3 to x4 HD for temp HP.  The progression would look like:
level  Temp HP/round
______________________
1      2
2      4
3      6
4      8
5      10
6      12
7      14
8      16
9      27
10     30
11     33
12     36
13     39
14     42
15     45
16     48
17     51
18     72
19     78
20     80

I still wonder if that's a bit much.  Compared to what the DR does, this is huge, but the DR granted in the PHB has always been reather piddly.  I just don't want to over-do it and make a 5th level barbarian unstoppable or anything.  I guess anything that gets past the temp HP does cause real damage to the barbarian which will have to be dealt with in the usual fashion.  This is like a disapearing-replenishing form of DR, huh?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 09:47:33 AM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1354 on: December 08, 2008, 11:25:41 AM »
Actually, it is at the same time better and worse.

Better, because it takes more punishment towards the latter end. Worse, because unlike DR, it can only take so much punishment before going away. If our 5th level Barbarian friend got ganged up by, say, four enemies at once, and they dealt about 5 damage apiece, he'd only really "soak" two of those hits.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1355 on: December 08, 2008, 01:35:48 PM »
That's kind of what I was getting at; it's situational.  Against single attacks the temp HP work out better.  Against multiple attacks per round, the DR starts pulling ahead (once you get to a high enough level to get it).

So, do you think the progression I posted is decent enough?  By higher levels, I think this feature will come into play less and less.  I think it's more of a low to mid level boost.  I think other abilities like increased use of Haste and Improved Mettle are what will make the class more attractive at higher levels.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1356 on: December 08, 2008, 03:04:15 PM »
Well, if I remove Trap Sense and add in an increase to the temp HP at levels 9 and 18, we'd have:

1   Fast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/encounter, Temporary Hit Points (x2)
2   Uncanny dodge
3   Rage (Mettle)
4   Rage +2 rounds, Rage (Fear Immune)
5   Improved uncanny dodge
6   PounceRage (Damage Reduction)
8   Rage +4 rounds, Rage (Haste, 1)
9   Temporary Hit Points (x3)Greater rage
12  Rage +6 rounds, Rage (Haste, 2)Rage (Improved Mettle)Rage +8 rounds, Rage (Haste, 3)
17  Tireless rage
18  Temporary Hit Points (x4)Mighty rage, Rage +10 rounds, Rage (Haste, continuous)


Bold = different from PHB
Red = new change
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
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Kuroimaken

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1357 on: December 08, 2008, 07:30:02 PM »
Is there a particular need for Rage to last longer as a class feature? By high levels you can probably expect the guy to last a minimum of 10 rounds (15 if he gets Lasting Rage or whatever that feat's name is). High-level combat doesn't usually LAST that long.
Quote
That's kind of what I was getting at; it's situational.  Against single attacks the temp HP work out better.  Against multiple attacks per round, the DR starts pulling ahead (once you get to a high enough level to get it).

So, do you think the progression I posted is decent enough?  By higher levels, I think this feature will come into play less and less.  I think it's more of a low to mid level boost.  I think other abilities like increased use of Haste and Improved Mettle are what will make the class more attractive at higher levels.

I still prefer my original idea of level times Con bonus. In the end you get a bigger pool, mostly, but it helps more against multiple attacks.

If the temp HP isn't that big, it really isn't enough to make much of a difference, is it?
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veekie

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1358 on: December 08, 2008, 08:47:51 PM »
Is there a particular need for Rage to last longer as a class feature? By high levels you can probably expect the guy to last a minimum of 10 rounds (15 if he gets Lasting Rage or whatever that feat's name is). High-level combat doesn't usually LAST that long.
Quote
That's kind of what I was getting at; it's situational.  Against single attacks the temp HP work out better.  Against multiple attacks per round, the DR starts pulling ahead (once you get to a high enough level to get it).

So, do you think the progression I posted is decent enough?  By higher levels, I think this feature will come into play less and less.  I think it's more of a low to mid level boost.  I think other abilities like increased use of Haste and Improved Mettle are what will make the class more attractive at higher levels.

I still prefer my original idea of level times Con bonus. In the end you get a bigger pool, mostly, but it helps more against multiple attacks.

If the temp HP isn't that big, it really isn't enough to make much of a difference, is it?

I'd favor the flat bonus myself, if it scales with Con, the hp rapidly gets out of control. The latest version seems fine for what it's supposed to do, take the brunt off the first couple of attacks in a round.
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RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Core Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1359 on: December 08, 2008, 09:03:06 PM »
Is there a particular need for Rage to last longer as a class feature? By high levels you can probably expect the guy to last a minimum of 10 rounds (15 if he gets Lasting Rage or whatever that feat's name is). High-level combat doesn't usually LAST that long.
True.  I just put that in when the barbarian would have gotten an extra rage per day to fill the gaps.


I still prefer my original idea of level times Con bonus. In the end you get a bigger pool, mostly, but it helps more against multiple attacks.
I'm just worried that it would go a bit nuts.  I can see why 80 hp at 20th level isn't a lot, but that's just one change of many to bring the class up a single tier.  I don't want to over-do it.  I'm hoping the flat bonus at lower levels works well.

Here's the current progression, with ability descriptions:

1   Fast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/encounter, Rage (Temporary Hit Points)
2   Uncanny dodge
3   Rage (Mettle)
4   Rage (Fear Immune)
5   Improved uncanny dodge
6   Pounce
7   Damage reduction 1/-, Rage (Damage Reduction)
8   Rage (Haste, 1)
9   Temporary Hit Points (x3)
10  Damage reduction 2/-
11  Greater rage
12  Rage (Haste, 2)
13  Damage reduction 3/-
14  Indomitable will
15  Rage (Improved Mettle)
16  Damage reduction 4/-, Rage (Haste, 3)
17  Tireless rage
18  Temporary Hit Points (x3)
19  Damage reduction 5/-
20  Mighty rage, Rage (Haste, continuous)



Rage: Per the PHB with the following exceptions: the barbarian can use rage once per encounter instead of per day.  Instead of gaining a +4 bonus on Constitution, the barbarian instead gainst a +2 morale bonus on Fortitude saves.

The moral bonus to fortitude saves increases to +3 at 11th level when the barbarian gains Greater Rage and to +4 at 20th level when he gains Mighty Rage.

Rage (Temporary Hit Points): While raging, the barbarian gains a number of temporary hit points equal to double his class level.  These temporary hit points overlap with other temporary hit points and do not stack.  For example, a 3rd level barbarian would gain 6 temporary hit points per round, but the total would never increase above 6.

At 9th level, the barbarian gains a number of temporary hit points equal to three times his class level per round.  This increases to four times his class level at 18th level.

Uncanny Dodge: At 2nd level, the barbarian gains Uncanny Dodge, per the PHB.

Rage (Mettle): At 3rd level, the barbarian gains Mettle when he is raging.

Rage (Fear Immune): At 4th level, the barbarian is immune to fear while raging.

Improved Uncanny Dodge: At 5th level, the barbarian gains Improved Uncanny Dodge, per the PHB.

Pounce: At 6th level, the barbarian gains Pounce.

Damage Reduction: At 7th level, the barbarian gains Damage Reduction per the PHB.

Rage (Damage Reduction): At 7th level, the damage reduction granted from barbarian levels doubles while the barbarian is raging.

Rage (Haste): At 8th level, as a swift action the barbarian can gain the benifits of Haste for one round while raging.  This ability does not stack with any other rage ability.

At 12th level, the barbarian can gain the effects of Haste for two rounds while raging, although it need not be two consecutive rounds.  Each separate activation takes a swift action.  At 16th level, the barbarian can gain the benifit of Haste for three rounds.  At 20th level, the barbarian can gain the benifit as long as he likes.

Indomitable Will: At 14th level, the barbarian gains Indomitable Will, per the PHB.

Rage (Improved Mettle): At 15th level, when the barbarian is raging, he gains Improved Mettle.  This works exactly like Mettle, except on a failed save, he only takes the partial effects instead of the full effects of the spell or ability.

Tireless Rage: At 17th level, the barbarian gains Tireless Rage, per the PHB.

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