Ask a Simple Question 25: Welcome to DIE!

[Zebu]

Q 233:

A233  What you have here is a whole stack of effects that say "subject takes half damage, willing ally/enemy/caster takes the damage not taken by the subject."  So if an attack hits your psion, everybody (the enemy, the psicrystal, the paladin, and the psion himself) takes half the damage that would've been dealt by the attack.  That is, if the attack dealt 10 damage, each and everyone person involved takes 5 damage.

Empathic Feedback deals "damage equal to the amount it dealt to you."  So the attack -also- takes half the attack would've dealt.  You might expect them to take full damage, but the shielding effects say, "the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks," etc.  So the psion (using empathic feedback) is only taking half the damage the attack would normally deal.

[Agita]

Q237 A necromancer casts Animate Dead on the skeleton of an Old dragon.  Then he casts Awaken Undead (from the spell compendium) on it, which (among other things) restores "extraordinary attacks."  Does the dragon regain its sorcerer casting?

No, spellcasting is not normally an Ex ability.

That is actually arguable, there have been long debates on these forums about that topic.  There are strong arguments that spellcasting is an ex ability by default.
The answer to the question is still no though, due to the undead having a charisma score of 1 which awaken undead does not change.

1. Where does it say that the undead dragon has charisma 1?  It doesn't say that on the SRD description of the type, or in the Skeletal Dragon template (quite the opposite, in fact), or anywhere else I can find...
2. Does that mean that all the dragon needs to do to become a sorcerer is raise its charisma with a few items/spells?

Undead do not in general have Cha 1, but Skeletons do by default. Dragon Skeletons (called Skeletal Dragons), however, have special rules outlined in Draconomicon that allow them to keep their Charisma scores. So if spellcasting is ruled to be an (Ex) ability, the Awakened Skeletal Dragon would indeed regain its Sorcerer casting.

[kevin_video]

Q 238 What are some "halfling" weapons (actually have halfling in the title), and where can I find them?

[Havok4]

Q237 A necromancer casts Animate Dead on the skeleton of an Old dragon.  Then he casts Awaken Undead (from the spell compendium) on it, which (among other things) restores "extraordinary attacks."  Does the dragon regain its sorcerer casting?

No, spellcasting is not normally an Ex ability.

That is actually arguable, there have been long debates on these forums about that topic.  There are strong arguments that spellcasting is an ex ability by default.
The answer to the question is still no though, due to the undead having a charisma score of 1 which awaken undead does not change.

1. Where does it say that the undead dragon has charisma 1?  It doesn't say that on the SRD description of the type, or in the Skeletal Dragon template (quite the opposite, in fact), or anywhere else I can find...
2. Does that mean that all the dragon needs to do to become a sorcerer is raise its charisma with a few items/spells?

Undead do not in general have Cha 1, but Skeletons do by default. Dragon Skeletons (called Skeletal Dragons), however, have special rules outlined in Draconomicon that allow them to keep their Charisma scores. So if spellcasting is ruled to be an (Ex) ability, the Awakened Skeletal Dragon would indeed regain its Sorcerer casting.

Indeed. Disregard the cha 1 issue for dragons as I should be giving rule advice when I  am this tired.

[Zebu]

Q237 A necromancer casts Animate Dead on the skeleton of an Old dragon.  Then he casts Awaken Undead (from the spell compendium) on it, which (among other things) restores "extraordinary attacks."  Does the dragon regain its sorcerer casting?

No, spellcasting is not normally an Ex ability.

That is actually arguable, there have been long debates on these forums about that topic.  There are strong arguments that spellcasting is an ex ability by default.
The answer to the question is still no though, due to the undead having a charisma score of 1 which awaken undead does not change.

1. Where does it say that the undead dragon has charisma 1?  It doesn't say that on the SRD description of the type, or in the Skeletal Dragon template (quite the opposite, in fact), or anywhere else I can find...
2. Does that mean that all the dragon needs to do to become a sorcerer is raise its charisma with a few items/spells?

Undead do not in general have Cha 1, but Skeletons do by default. Dragon Skeletons (called Skeletal Dragons), however, have special rules outlined in Draconomicon that allow them to keep their Charisma scores. So if spellcasting is ruled to be an (Ex) ability, the Awakened Skeletal Dragon would indeed regain its Sorcerer casting.

Indeed. Disregard the cha 1 issue for dragons as I should be giving rule advice when I  am this tired.

Which brings us back to square 1.  Is a dragon's spellcasting an extraordinary ability?  Supernatural?  Spell-like?  Natural?  Inquiring minds want to know!
And if this goes beyond the scope of a "simple question," a link to one of the ongoing arguments would be appreciated.

[zook1shoe]

Q 238 What are some "halfling" weapons (actually have halfling in the title), and where can I find them?

The ones that come to mind are the Halfling Warsling, Halfling Skipstone, and Talenta Boomerang.

[Hasmadad]

Q 233:

A233  What you have here is a whole stack of effects that say "subject takes half damage, willing ally/enemy/caster takes the damage not taken by the subject."  So if an attack hits your psion, everybody (the enemy, the psicrystal, the paladin, and the psion himself) takes half the damage that would've been dealt by the attack.  That is, if the attack dealt 10 damage, each and everyone person involved takes 5 damage.

Empathic Feedback deals "damage equal to the amount it dealt to you."  So the attack -also- takes half the attack would've dealt.  You might expect them to take full damage, but the shielding effects say, "the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks," etc.  So the psion (using empathic feedback) is only taking half the damage the attack would normally deal.

So essentially they all take effect at the exact same time? Also as an added bonus it doubles the total damage dealt, opening possibilities for some nice shenanigans. Still kinda makes me wish M:TG stack rules were in D&D too.

-Uncle Has

[zook1shoe]

Q239 has anyone compiled a list of organizations that have benefit/rank tables, like in Complete Champion

[snakeman830]

Q 233: Is there a sequence according to which psionic/spell effects take place?
We had a psion with Share Pain (on his psicrystal),
Forced Share Pain (on the enemy hitting him),
Empathic Feedback (50%)
and our knight used Shield Ally (50%) on the psion. Psion got hit. Who takes what damage.

(We did this only to make our GM just that little bit balder. He didn´t get over it very well. Teehee.)

A233  What you have here is a whole stack of effects that say "subject takes half damage, willing ally/enemy/caster takes the damage not taken by the subject."  So if an attack hits your psion, everybody (the enemy, the psicrystal, the paladin, and the psion himself) takes half the damage that would've been dealt by the attack.  That is, if the attack dealt 10 damage, each and everyone person involved takes 5 damage.

Empathic Feedback deals "damage equal to the amount it dealt to you."  So the attack -also- takes half the attack would've dealt.  You might expect them to take full damage, but the shielding effects say, "the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks," etc.  So the psion (using empathic feedback) is only taking half the damage the attack would normally deal.

So essentially they all take effect at the exact same time? Also as an added bonus it doubles the total damage dealt, opening possibilities for some nice shenanigans. Still kinda makes me wish M:TG stack rules were in D&D too.

-Uncle Has

I believe in cases like this, you run things in whichever order you choose.  Most likely, this would be Empathic Feeddback (opponent takes full damage), Forced Share Pain(target takes half damage), then Share Pain and Shield Other in some combination.  End result:You take 12.5% damage, Psicrystal or Paladin takes 12.5% damage, other takes 25% damage, targetted enemy takes 50% damage, and attacker takes 100% damage.

(note: Empathic Feedback nubers are probably off)

[PhaedrusXY]

I do remember something somewhere in the rules saying that PCs can resolve spell effects in the order most beneficial to them.

[Ithamar]

Q239 has anyone compiled a list of organizations that have benefit/rank tables, like in Complete Champion

I'm pretty sure there is a handbook that was started on these, but not sure if it was ever finished.

[Havok4]

Q237 A necromancer casts Animate Dead on the skeleton of an Old dragon.  Then he casts Awaken Undead (from the spell compendium) on it, which (among other things) restores "extraordinary attacks."  Does the dragon regain its sorcerer casting?

No, spellcasting is not normally an Ex ability.

That is actually arguable, there have been long debates on these forums about that topic.  There are strong arguments that spellcasting is an ex ability by default.
The answer to the question is still no though, due to the undead having a charisma score of 1 which awaken undead does not change.

1. Where does it say that the undead dragon has charisma 1?  It doesn't say that on the SRD description of the type, or in the Skeletal Dragon template (quite the opposite, in fact), or anywhere else I can find...
2. Does that mean that all the dragon needs to do to become a sorcerer is raise its charisma with a few items/spells?

Undead do not in general have Cha 1, but Skeletons do by default. Dragon Skeletons (called Skeletal Dragons), however, have special rules outlined in Draconomicon that allow them to keep their Charisma scores. So if spellcasting is ruled to be an (Ex) ability, the Awakened Skeletal Dragon would indeed regain its Sorcerer casting.

Indeed. Disregard the cha 1 issue for dragons as I should be giving rule advice when I  am this tired.

Which brings us back to square 1.  Is a dragon's spellcasting an extraordinary ability?  Supernatural?  Spell-like?  Natural?  Inquiring minds want to know!
And if this goes beyond the scope of a "simple question," a link to one of the ongoing arguments would be appreciated.

Here is one of the longer and more heated arguments that begins a bit down that page.

[PhaedrusXY]

Q240: Can you use a boost (swift action) and a strike (full round action) in the same round? Specifically, can you use Burning Blade and Flashing Sun together? Or does the FRA use up your swift action?

[kevin_video]

Q240: Can you use a boost (swift action) and a strike (full round action) in the same round? Specifically, can you use Burning Blade and Flashing Sun together? Or does the FRA use up your swift action?

You can use a swift action and a full round action, or a swift action with a standard and a move. The only exception is when you're trying to cast two spells. You're supposed to only be able to cast one spell a round.

[Littha]

Q237 A necromancer casts Animate Dead on the skeleton of an Old dragon.  Then he casts Awaken Undead (from the spell compendium) on it, which (among other things) restores "extraordinary attacks."  Does the dragon regain its sorcerer casting?

No, spellcasting is not normally an Ex ability.

That is actually arguable, there have been long debates on these forums about that topic.  There are strong arguments that spellcasting is an ex ability by default.
The answer to the question is still no though, due to the undead having a charisma score of 1 which awaken undead does not change.

1. Where does it say that the undead dragon has charisma 1?  It doesn't say that on the SRD description of the type, or in the Skeletal Dragon template (quite the opposite, in fact), or anywhere else I can find...
2. Does that mean that all the dragon needs to do to become a sorcerer is raise its charisma with a few items/spells?

Undead do not in general have Cha 1, but Skeletons do by default. Dragon Skeletons (called Skeletal Dragons), however, have special rules outlined in Draconomicon that allow them to keep their Charisma scores. So if spellcasting is ruled to be an (Ex) ability, the Awakened Skeletal Dragon would indeed regain its Sorcerer casting.

Indeed. Disregard the cha 1 issue for dragons as I should be giving rule advice when I  am this tired.

Which brings us back to square 1.  Is a dragon's spellcasting an extraordinary ability?  Supernatural?  Spell-like?  Natural?  Inquiring minds want to know!
And if this goes beyond the scope of a "simple question," a link to one of the ongoing arguments would be appreciated.

Here is one of the longer and more heated arguments that begins a bit down that page.

one thing about the skeletal dragon is that nowhere in the description does it say that it loses its spellcasting in the first place... stupid i know but thats WotC

Specifically:

Special Attacks: A skeletal dragon loses all supernatural and spell-like special attacks possessed by the base dragon.It retains any exceptional special attacks (such as frightful presence or improved grab).

and spellcasting isn't supernatural or spell like...


Admittedly it has Int - so it likley dosent have the mental capacity to use spells but it dosent actually lose the ability.

[snakeman830]

You're supposed to only be able to cast one spell a round.

Huh? Where are you getting that idea?  Only thing I can find is only casting one quickened spell a round.

@skelatal dragons: Oh god.  That template is even better than I thought.

[kevin_video]

You're supposed to only be able to cast one spell a round.

Huh? Where are you getting that idea?  Only thing I can find is only casting one quickened spell a round.

You need to be hasted to normally cast two spells. But if you can cast Arrow Mind and Arrow Storm in one round, that's good info to know.

[McPoyo]

You're supposed to only be able to cast one spell a round.

Huh? Where are you getting that idea?  Only thing I can find is only casting one quickened spell a round.

@skelatal dragons: Oh god.  That template is even better than I thought.

Yup, just find a way to grant them an Int score and you are good.

Though, technically, they cast as sorcerers, so having - int is irrelevant as long as they have Cha.

[PhaedrusXY]

You're supposed to only be able to cast one spell a round.

Huh? Where are you getting that idea?  Only thing I can find is only casting one quickened spell a round.

You need to be hasted to normally cast two spells. But if you can cast Arrow Mind and Arrow Storm in one round, that's good info to know.

You're mixing 3.0 and 3.5 rules, Kevin. Quickened Spells are swift actions, and can definitely be cast in the same round as a standard action spell. Haste does not grant you a "partial action" in 3.5. Indeed, partial actions no longer exist.

[kevin_video]

You're supposed to only be able to cast one spell a round.

Huh? Where are you getting that idea?  Only thing I can find is only casting one quickened spell a round.

You need to be hasted to normally cast two spells. But if you can cast Arrow Mind and Arrow Storm in one round, that's good info to know.

You're mixing 3.0 and 3.5 rules, Kevin. Quickened Spells are swift actions, and can definitely be cast in the same round as a standard action spell. Haste does not grant you a "partial action" in 3.5. Indeed, partial actions no longer exist.

Ah. But on the same token, sorcerers can't cast a quickened spell without the Sudden Metamagic feat as their spells end up taking a full round.