Help with a human Vop Saint Monk

[Shadeseraph]

If you are persistifying Divine Power, you might as well take Cloistered Cleric instead of standard cleric, for the extra knowledge domain, some additional skill points and the free sweet, sweet Knowledge Devotion (Feat from Complete Champion, clerics can get it in exchange for the granted power of the knowledge domain). In fact, you could take it even if you don't want to use persistent divine power at all.

By the way, Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) is pretty good for any character favoring full attacks, and, again, you can get it for free in exchange for the travel domain granted power.

Feats:

3: Combat Casting
6: Persist Spell
9: DMM: Persist Spell
12:
15:
18:

Which feats should I take? Extra Turning till the end, or also something else?

Deppends. Are nightsticks available? Do they stack? If both answers are yes, you are golden without any Extra Turning. Anyway, you can cover most attempts with just one Extra Turning and items, though more persisted spells are always welcomed. If you want to use Travel Devotion and Nightsticks aren't allowed, some more Extra Turnings are great.

If you are using the Embrace/Shun shuffle, then you have a lot of feats to your disposition. You can pretty much take all you want and still get as many Extra turnings as you would want.

I'd say that the number of Extra Turnings to take should be something along these lines:
-Nightsticks allowed and stackable? 0 Extra Turning.
-Nightsticks disallowed and Embrace/Shun allowed? Every feat once you've got the ones you want, so about 6 or so.
-Nightsticks disallowed and Embrace/Shun disallowed? 1 or 2. Maybe 3.

As for the feats... At least, I'd take the following ones:
-Combat Casting (Duh!)
-Extend Spell (Duh, duh!)
-Persistent Spell (Duh dah!)
-DMM: Persistent Spell (Dubi dubi duh!)
-Practiced Spellcaster: always lovely for increased spell effects and increased spell duration.
-Improved Natural Attack and/or Superior Unarmed Strike. Greater Mighty Wallop affects unarmed strikes, and with Righteous Might you'll be throwing more damage dices for a single fist that the standard rogue with a full round sneak attacking. Well, this is a bit of an overexageration, but not by too much. You need a sorcerer/wizard to cast it for you, though. Magic domain can be interesting just to be able to use an Eternal Wand of Greater Mighty Wallop, if you don't have an arcane caster in your group

[Esgath]

I can't use nightsticks or any other items that increase my turn attempts, because i play a Vow of Poverty character.
Extend spell will be available through the planning domain

[Shadeseraph]

I can't use nightsticks or any other items that increase my turn attempts, because i play a Vow of Poverty character.
Extend spell will be available through the planning domain

Ok, that's when I go back to some wall nearby and start banging my head against it. Hard. This is why I hate VoP so much.

Then, the only way you can get Greater Mighty Wallop'd is through a friendly arcane spellcaster. Good luck with that...

Right... is Leadership allowed?

[Esgath]

Then, the only way you can get Greater Mighty Wallop'd is through a friendly arcane spellcaster. Good luck with that...

Actually, that's not a problem. We have a wizard/incantatrix in our team.

*cough* *cough* the wizard in question also has leadership. But i think our DM will start throwing books at us if we heavily abuse leadership

[Shadeseraph]

Wizard/Incant.... Ok, change of plans. We need the heavy guns. My suggestion:

Archivist 5, Monk 1, Sacred Fist 10, Sacred Exorcist 3, Contemplative 1 or something like that.
Get Neraph as a race.
Get Carmedine Monk or Kung Fu Genius, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persistent Spell, Quickened Spell, DMM: Quicken and go crazy with Extra Turning for the rest. I'd even think on not taking Carmedine Monk/Kung Fu Genius in favor of more Turning Attempts.

Get a hold of polymorph, persistify a bunch of spells, and go crazy with polymorph + unarmed strikes.
Maybe you'll be on par with the Incantatrix then.

And yes, I know these are a bunch of things from books you aren't allowed, but he is using an Incantatrix. With Leadership. And you'll tell me he took an Artificer cohort now. You'll need something like this to manage.

[Esgath]

Wowowow, easy pal

First of all, we are lvl 2 now and human Vop Saint Monk is set, that's what i wanna play  
Second, the player with the incantatrix is really not an optimizer. And third, the other guys are more on par with me (first paragraph of the post ^^).

And regarding race: In this homebrewn setting, even normal elves and dwarfes are RARE. Common folks are lucky when they see one in their entire lifetime.

Noone in my entire group has even heard of an artificer, we played 3.0 up to lvl 8-9 before. The only books we had were phb, dmg, the prc books like sword and fist and pgtf. See, that's about the horizon we have. Sorcerers and Wizards were for blasting

I really appreciate the input though

[Shadeseraph]

Oh, well. Then no problem.

then let's go back to the drawing board. The build you posted is good enough. We already know how many attempts you will be able to get with reasonable precission. Think about if you are going to take Travel Devotion and how many spells you want persisted. Travel devotion costs about 6 turning attempts to (on average) be able to use it every combat. Every persisted spell costs 7 turning attempts. We are looking at a range of 2-3 persisted spells. So, I'd say that you should try to get something between 14 and 28 turning attemts. Undeath Domain + Base number of attempts = 7 + Cha mod attemts. I'm not going to account for increased cha from VoP, so I think that you must have about +3 Cha or so thanks to Saint (I'm AFB, so I'm not sure what the benefits were, but I think I remember them having at least a +4 Cha or so). Thats 10 attempts. 3 more Extra turning or so, for a total of 22, should do the trick, IMHO.

[Esgath]

Saint Template gives me +4 Cha, and I could buff myself with eagle's splendor for another +2 turning attempts, couldn't I?

3 + 4 (cha) + 3x extra turning + undeath = 23 turning, yay

If I go the Travel devotion route, I would miss the ability to cast "Fly". So I am a little bit hesitant there. Is there any other spell, that will let me fly?

[snakeman830]

Note on Devotion feats: Clerics can get them for free by trading the whole domain, not just the power.

[SorO_Lost]

OP: "Help me build a VoP Saint Monk"
Everyone: "Needs more caster levels, dump monk for cleric."
 
Something doesn't seem right here.

Some suggestions which you may or may not be able to use.
Mantis Leap (S&F): Monk 7+, pick someone it's possible to jump to, then make the check. Success grants x2 to str mod if you charge them.
Snap Kick (ToB): -5 to all attack rolls, add an extra unarmed attack to everything. Strikes, AoOs, sex, full-attacks, etc.
Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB): +4 to your monk level for unarmed damage.
Harpoon (SW): Spear people in the chest Scorpion style.
Psychic Warrior 2 (SRD): Gives an ML of 2 and two feats.
Ghost (savage progression): Telekinesis at will. VoP turns your hurled weapons into +5ers?
(Eberron, ?): Increases unarmed damage by one size step, one crystal per ML.
Fist Of The Forest 3 (CC): +2 advancements to unarmed damage, con to ac, fury mode, fast movement, great PrC even at a single level dip.
Swordsage (ToB): A must have if possible.
Mantle OF The Fiery Soul (SpC): Adds fire immunity, you're cold immunity negates any downside.
 

[snakeman830]

Snap Kick is only -2.

[Gods_Trick]

OP: "Help me build a VoP Saint Monk"
Everyone: "Needs more caster levels, dump monk for cleric."
 
Something doesn't seem right here.

*shrugs* We told him why; monks don't die more than other classes, but they don't pull their fair share of weight either.

[SorO_Lost]

Snap Kick is only -2.

*smacks head* D'oh. >.<

@Gods, all melee classes suck vs casters, all casters suck vs pun-pun.
I fail to care about your point. OP has his theme and has said so multiple times. Don't like it, don't post.

[X-Codes]

Another vote for Monk 2/Cleric 6/Sacred Fist 10.  If your DM goes by text-trumps-tables then this is a 16th-level caster, if not then 14th.  This is an important distinction because at 15th level you get the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos which allow you to turn all of those useless Exalted feats into something workable, although you'll have to do a 180 on your Law/Chaos axis at some point between here and there.  Sure you'd be an Ex-Monk at that point, but there's worse things than being an Ex-Monk.

Wouldn't ordered chaos help him with that?

No, it won't, because you've already taken a level of Cleric, anyway, and therefore can't advance more Monk.  The penalty for becoming a non-lawful monk is that you can't advance more Monk, you keep literally everything else.  As such, taking the Ordered Chaos feat would just be a waste of a feat.

But you'd retrain the feat anyway with Embrace/Shun combo, so it doesn't really matter.

Until you start doing the Embrace/Shun combo (level 15), however, you've still wasted a feat.

[Solo]

@Gods, all melee classes suck vs casters, all casters suck vs pun-pun.
I fail to care about your point. OP has his theme and has said so multiple times. Don't like it, don't post.

We have our hatred of monks and have said so multiple times. Don't like it, don't post.

[Gods_Trick]

I try not to give bad advice, even when solicited. I doubt the Ops going to zombielike follow the advice if he dislikes it. The fluff of the monk is easily reflavoured to fit though.

[SorO_Lost]

I try not to give bad advice, even when solicited. I doubt the Ops going to zombielike follow the advice if he dislikes it. The fluff of the monk is easily reflavoured to fit though.

Oh I agree, simplest way of replacing monk would be to say "unarmed swordsage".

But...

Hi there, i am playing in a homebrewn setting and wanted to play a human Vop Saint Monk. ... This is my current build, not sure about sacred fist but the guides told me i had to fly at higher levels

Read guide? Can't be, I R reading teh word monk. More cleric!

But i don't want to play a caster,

Too bad, needs moar cleric!

Wowowow, easy pal

First of all, we are lvl 2 now and human Vop Saint Monk is set, that's what i wanna play  

That is apparently what he wants to play as, posts otherwise are, as Blade puts it.

"Some mother fuckers are always trying to ice skate up hill."

***

@Gods, all melee classes suck vs casters, all casters suck vs pun-pun.
I fail to care about your point. OP has his theme and has said so multiple times. Don't like it, don't post.

We have our hatred of monks and have said so multiple times. Don't like it, don't post.

I sorry, I too am just as screwed up as you are. However, I don't extend my dislike for a person to cover all the things they like as well and consider 2 levels of monk useful nor do I answer every post ever with incantatrix/shadowcraft because all things suck in comparison. Hell with splat book items even the NPC warrior class can kick a lot of ass.

...Oh right, VoP.
Still, he wants to play as it and has reminded everyone of such multiple times. You can stop wasting time telling him otherwise, I point to Blade again.

[veekie]

That is apparently what he wants to play as, posts otherwise are, as Blade puts it.

"Some mother fuckers are always trying to ice skate up hill."

You might wanna fix that.

[SorO_Lost]

O.O

Fixed. It showed up in the preview just fine, *shrugs*
Stealing off wikipedia now ^_^