Adept vs monk: the final nail in the coffin

[veekie]

Sir Giacomo: You might want to edit out the "talk even to plants" bit.  I almost thought you were serious and just hilariously misguided until I read that.  It gives you away to new readers, man.

But I start to see...people run out of arguments, so the usual lulz set in. Ah, well...will go to bed again.

- Giacomo

Every one of your posts has a sentence like this in it.

No one is running out of arguments, you fail to disprove or convince anyone of pretty much anything.  People just tire of repeating themselves.

Well, one person isn't tired!

[SorO_Lost]

Well, .... Speaking to plants may not appear to be that powerful. It is the tongues/speak with animals/speak with plants combined with diplomacy that is quite useful I think. Certainly equivalent to a 5th level spell if you ask me.

Monk: "Can you grow a little to the south? I just want you closer to the other tree to build my club house." *diplomacy check*
Tree: "Sure." *check passes*
30 years later...
Tree: "Done."
Tree: "Monk?"
Tree: "Hello?"
Druid: "I think he died, fourteen years ago, a dragon got him, I bet he was stringy and tasted like an old shoe. But I don't know for sure, the Bards never sing about the sidekicks."

[X-Codes]

Just when I thought this thread was winding down...

[Sobolev]

Well, .... Speaking to plants may not appear to be that powerful. It is the tongues/speak with animals/speak with plants combined with diplomacy that is quite useful I think. Certainly equivalent to a 5th level spell if you ask me.

Monk: "Can you grow a little to the south? I just want you closer to the other tree to build my club house." *diplomacy check*
Tree: "Sure." *check passes*
30 years later...
Tree: "Done."
Tree: "Monk?"
Tree: "Hello?"
Druid: "I think he died, fourteen years ago, a dragon got him, I bet he was stringy and tasted like an old shoe. But I don't know for sure, the Bards never sing about the sidekicks."

+1

[Solo]

Do plants have an Int score? I thought they usually had the brains of a zombie.

[snakeman830]

Do plants have an Int score? I thought they usually had the brains of a zombie.

Someone else's?

Oh god, yet another campaign idea...

[Sobolev]

Do plants have an Int score? I thought they usually had the brains of a zombie.

Someone else's?

Oh god, yet another campaign idea...

This thread seems to be good at generating those.

[Infected]

Do plants have an Int score? I thought they usually had the brains of a zombie.

Someone else's?

Oh god, yet another campaign idea...

This thread seems to be good at generating those.

Where have I heard something like that before...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Triffids

[Sir Giacomo]

Monk: "Can you grow a little to the south? I just want you closer to the other tree to build my club house." *diplomacy check*
Tree: "Sure." *check passes*
30 years later...
Tree: "Done."
Tree: "Monk?"
Tree: "Hello?"
Druid: "I think he died, fourteen years ago, a dragon got him, I bet he was stringy and tasted like an old shoe. But I don't know for sure, the Bards never sing about the sidekicks."

[JaronK]

Gia, seriously, we're mostly just ignoring you now.  Stuff like that last example prove why: you're not even making sense anymore (it says animals avoid the area, not they carry riders away in terror.  The Adept would just send in a few undead to slaughter the poor thing if he was of sufficient level to have said undead.  Though why an Adept of sufficient level to have undead would be fighting CR 6 plants I can't fathom).

Seriously, find one other person to back you up or agree with you and I might consider debating you again.  Until then, you're just a crazy guy talking to the air.

JaronK

[ninjarabbit]

And even with Giacomo's horrible example the adept doesn't die, it runs away to fight another day and he still has his army of wolves. That's actually pretty funny.

[Sobolev]

Gia, seriously, we're mostly just ignoring you now.  Stuff like that last example prove why: you're not even making sense anymore (it says animals avoid the area, not they carry riders away in terror.  The Adept would just send in a few undead to slaughter the poor thing if he was of sufficient level to have said undead.  Though why an Adept of sufficient level to have undead would be fighting CR 6 plants I can't fathom).

Seriously, find one other person to back you up or agree with you and I might consider debating you again.  Until then, you're just a crazy guy talking to the air.

JaronK

And the Handle Animal skill allows you to "Push" animals to do something they wouldn't normally do.  Like approaching such a thing perhaps?

[SorO_Lost]

And the Handle Animal skill allows you to "Push" animals to do something they wouldn't normally do.  Like approaching such a thing perhaps?

*more derailing*

I "Pushed" your dog into traffic!
With my foot. Using a kicking motion.

[Lunaramblings]

Ok. So I don't really post on here often, but figured I would give this a shot.

Warforged Adept 12

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 21 (boosts and +4 item)
Cha 13

Feats:
1st: Warforged Adamantine Body
3rd: CorpseCrafter
6th: Undead Empathy
9th: Undead Leadership
12th: Tomb-Tainted Soul

Skills:
Craft: Gemcutting 12 ranks, +2 modifier, +2 Masterwork Tools= +16
Concentration 12 ranks, +2 Modifier=14
Spellcraft 12 ranks, +2 Modifier=14
Knowledge: Religion (for knowing about my undead) 12 ranks, +2 modifier, +2 Masterwork tools= +16
Diplomacy(from my Docent) 10 ranks + x ability mod= 10+x
Spot (from my Docent) 10 ranks +x ability mod + 10 (uses my senses, hence benefits from my Third Eye Aware= 20+x

Now I have a ton of Gold left over from my items, so I could buy a bunch of Skill bonus items, and they are actually ridiculously cheap, but I don't know if that is agains the spirit of this thing.

Gear:
Rod of Undead Mastery-10,000gp
Periapt of Wisdom +4-16,000
Warforged Component-Docent-12,500
Talisman of Undying Fortitude-8000
Gems to make Undead-2500(100 HD, I like round numbers)

I have plenty left over for anything I might have missed, having only spent roughly 1/2 my WBL.

I am able to control 96 HD of Undead through the Animate Dead spell. Additionally, I have Command Undead.

I used this here random generator, set for 13 encounters, CR 10-14. of those I got 6 useful encounters. Here is what I got.

1)Legendary Shark. Interesting. But unless it is an aquatic campaign, or I am building my stronghold, not real useful.
2)Kython Slaymaster. BoVD. This thing is disgusting. Thank you kindly.
3)Charnel Hound. Big scary undead. Non-intelligent. Thank you Command Undead. No save he is mine as long as I remember to renew the spell 2 1/2 times a month.
4)Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan. Another nice critter for animation. Thank you kindly.
5)Landwyrm, Forest. This is a very nice critter. Burrow speed.
6)Grimwierd. Right. This is the best critter I could have come across. With my Undead Empathy and a pretty nice Diplomacy, I can probably convince him to join, if not I can attempt to Command Undead, though he does get a save, being intelligent, and he will most likely make it.

Additionally, I can take that Domain, which I will choose the Necromancer Domain (Ebberon). That gives me some useful spells, like command undead.

So, looks like a fairly powerful little troupe. Oh, and I have an Undead Cohort. I could go with a Necropolitan Wizard or Cleric, but I didn't. Instead I could have an Atropal Scion(Libris Mortis). Or I could have even gone for a Necropolitan Dread Necromancer.

In addition I can heal via negative energy, I can also heal myself by taking 8 hours and making a Craft Gemcutting check, healing equal to the check -15, which I can take 10 on.

I honestly think that this character would provide a lot to any party. He can face it up when he needs to, he can bring a whole lot of hurt through the use of his minions, and he can also provide limited spellcasting services.

This obviously is not the most amazing build ever, but I think it gets the job done, and I might actually play this in the next mid-high level Campaign my group does.

[SorO_Lost]

Ok. So I don't really post on here often, but figured I would give this a shot.
<snip>Animate Dead & Cohort(s)!</snip>

Core element of your build is essentially nothing but reduce the price of using Animate Undead. If nothing else, today I learned a single level dip into Pale Master is better than the entire Adapt class. Well, that and Wight's +4 LA is totally worth free undead in a low power game.

[Midnight_v]

Perhaps then you've learned the power of being a caster, AT ALL. In which no only are
your class featured (spells for those who missed it) give you oppurtunites and
options that non casters never really see. In this case specifically access to palemaster.

[snakeman830]

Ok. So I don't really post on here often, but figured I would give this a shot.
<snip>Animate Dead & Cohort(s)!</snip>

Core element of your build is essentially nothing but reduce the price of using Animate Undead. If nothing else, today I learned a single level dip into Pale Master is better than the entire Adapt class. Well, that and Wight's +4 LA is totally worth free undead in a low power game.

Ummm, nothing in there reduces the cost of Animate Dead.  It's just focused on undead in general.

[SorO_Lost]

Ok. So I don't really post on here often, but figured I would give this a shot.
<snip>Animate Dead & Cohort(s)!</snip>

Core element of your build is essentially nothing but reduce the price of using Animate Undead. If nothing else, today I learned a single level dip into Pale Master is better than the entire Adapt class. Well, that and Wight's +4 LA is totally worth free undead in a low power game.

Ummm, nothing in there reduces the cost of Animate Dead.  It's just focused on undead in general.

I thought his Craft(gemcutting) was in there for some gem crafting for material components.

[Lunaramblings]

Ok. So I don't really post on here often, but figured I would give this a shot.
<snip>Animate Dead & Cohort(s)!</snip>

Core element of your build is essentially nothing but reduce the price of using Animate Undead. If nothing else, today I learned a single level dip into Pale Master is better than the entire Adapt class. Well, that and Wight's +4 LA is totally worth free undead in a low power game.

So I take it that you didn't bother to actually read the build at all. Nothing in my build cheapens the costs. Craft Gemcutting is in there to due free healing on self, as a Warforged. Of course, if you actually bothered to read before commenting I clearly laid that out. Thanks for not taking the time or consideration to actually read a post before dismissing it.

Thematically, this could be played as a warforged that has had enough with Humanity and the like. Instead he is turning the living into "machines" to do his bidding as he would have been at one time or another. Mechanically, I can control 96 HD of Undead. Using my spells. A class feature.

As for the concern that someone presented about undead being too costly and needing replacement, while I am sure that you will go through undead from time to time, I doubt it will be constant. Also, there is a spell that can revive undead, it is in another Domain and I believe 5th level. So, if you have a particular favorite undead, you can just revive him by taking that domain instead. Or, take a level of Contemplative in the near future to pick up an additional domain, and choose that one. Though it is insanely pricey, so probably not suitable for what we are dealing with. Not to mention my Atropal Scion gets Create Undead 3/day as a SLA, as well as Desecrate, and a bunch of other goodies.

[Tshern]

I would switch Undead leadership away, because it is just ridiculous. Any build can be amazing with it and tells little of the power of the class. Otherwise I do like the character though.