Caster Level Loops And You

[awaken DM golem]

Oh, in that case, Ardent with Magic Mantle and the Ph00+KellK interpretation,
is the only real possible hinky point.
The rest are all Linear, and would need Bloodlines to get out of Linear at all.
And even then, it would still need the Arc/Div side, to be the real action.
Normally a Jockey on a Quarterhorse, vs. an Epic Dragon.
Please don't burn the psionicist's pants.

**

Now if you can have other participants,
Affinity Field 9 might do something interesting ; might.
Metaconcert does do something, but what exactly, isn't known.
It "ought" to be in the realm of Circle Magic, but the wording ...

[awaken DM golem]

More rumination = better idea !

Try Ardent 1 with Magic Mantle, and that's it.
Doesn't neuter a build very much.
Use Limited Wish, Wish or Miracle, to generate the
"effect" meaning the psionic power.
It'll use the CL that the Limited Wish provides.
Bingo , (augmented) powers are good to go,
and the key here, is NO POWERPOINT costs at all.
Limited Wish gets around the need for the ghoulishly high pp pool.

Yay Magic.
 

[Bauglir]

Oh jegus no, I don't acknowledge Magic Mantle as doing that. As far as I'm concerned, it forces Magic-Psi transparency and nothing else. You need to do too much extrapolation and guesswork to come up with any other rule, and the intent is incredibly clear, it seems to me. I'm still thinking about the other stuff you mentioned, though. I'll probably do it; I'll inevitably have a bored day or two over Winter Break when I can get around to it.

[Bauglir]

I've concluded that I can't do this. The rules are too inconsistent to come to the sort of stupidly literal conclusion that allows obnoxious stacking; in fact, I think that the authors might have unintentionally killed all the loops by using the phrase "caster level for your spells" in key places (half of Sublime Chord, Master Spellthief). If we're being sensible about this and coming to the conclusion that those two things are identical (which, I think, is pretty obviously the intent, especially given the wording of the Sublime Chord class feature) then infinite loops are trivial to accomplish given certain interpretations of the rules (just hook up Master Spellthief to Sublime Chord, I think, haven't 100% thought through the implications), or impossible given others (infinite loops are bullshit, go fuck yourself).

If somebody else wants to work on something based on what I've written so far, go ahead. I may even pick it up again later, but right now I can't wrap my head around a way for the rules to be internally consistent.

[awaken DM golem]

... If we're being sensible about this ...

See no evil !
Hear no evil !
Speak no evil !
 

[Bauglir]

... If we're being sensible about this ...

See no evil !
Hear no evil !
Speak no evil !
 

Yeah, but if we do that then the system just falls apart. Not like it's unbalanced, I mean it just doesn't work, in the same way that 2 + purple doesn't work.

[awaken DM golem]

Hopefully you won't walk away from this idea all together.
You did a lot of work ... some of it even useful to (self centered  ) me.

There is a point of maximum specificity, to anything constructed on Language.
And you seem to think, you've walked past that limit.


But hey, you could always just call it T.O.

{ ... insert so you don't have to feel guilty after all smiley face ... }

[nijineko]

interesting thread, here.

[Bauglir]

Well, I'll tell you what. When I'm done constructing my homebrew setting for the summer, if I have some free time, I'll go through all the things I've got collected that can be used here and write up the formula for what it does to your CL, following the strictest wording I can and using the notation in the OP, which I know can handle all the different permutations of wording. I just warn you that it's going to leave gaps and probably have contradictions. I'll unstrike-through the OP right now. What somebody else wants to do with the information is up to them.

[zook1shoe]

I was going to suggest the Nar Demonbinder too.

Monastic Servant of Auppensser PrC

Where's that one in?

What about applying something like the Uncanny Trickster to add extra levels to your maxes out Knight of the Weave? What would happen as an 11th level KotW?

Do they have epic progression for any of those prcs like the Nar Demonbinder or Sublime Chord or KotW?

[awaken DM golem]

Web expansion from the book author.
Could be considered official or semi-official.
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm

No epic for Nar. Too bad. Not that it needs it.
Don't know about the other two.



Bauglir good luck with your project.
"I just warn you that it's going to leave gaps and probably have contradictions."
Hey, what would you expect from wotc, precision?

[zook1shoe]

anyone know a way to get the 'Body Outside Body' wu jen spell without using a wu jen?

[CrimsonDeath]

anyone know a way to get the 'Body Outside Body' wu jen spell without using a wu jen?

Without playing a Wu Jen, or without Wu Jen existing?  (First one is trivial: UMD a scroll.  Second one is tougher.)

[zook1shoe]

Lol without playing one.

I'm playing in a 21st level Gestalt game, and am going to play an Illumian Wizard 21 // Spellthief 5 / Shadow Adept 1 / Rainbow Servant 10 / Nar Demonbinder 5

And use the Shadow Weave with Invisible Spell.

I was hoping to get Body Outside Body as a wizard somehow.

Any other suggestions?

[Bauglir]

If you're posting in this thread about it, I can only assume your DM is allowing ridiculous shenanigans. Therefore, note that wizards aren't limited to scribing Wizard spells in their spellbook. They're only limited to those for their free spells for gaining levels. Find a Wu Jen and ask for a look at that NPC's spellbook. Offer to pay in preposterous quantities of salt. Profit.

[zook1shoe]

really? where is that written?

[nijineko]

more like it is not written. doesn't say that they have to scribe a wizard sorcerer spell specifically. just arcane. iirc.

[zook1shoe]

Interesting...

[CrimsonDeath]

more like it is not written. doesn't say that they have to scribe a wizard sorcerer spell specifically. just arcane. iirc.

Strictly speaking (going by the PHB), only the cantrips are specifically mentioned as being drawn from the Wizard spell list, and neither the Spellbook class feature nor the Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook section of chapter 10 even mentions that the spells going into the spellbook must be arcane, only that they may come from either another wizard's spellbook or from a scroll.

However, the Spells class feature specifically states, "A wizard casts arcane spells [...] which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."  So, while he may be able to scribe Body Outside Body into his spellbook according to the written rules, he won't be able to cast it without something (like a feat or prestige class) modifying his Spells class feature.

You could independently research (PHB 179) a Wizard version of BOB, if your DM will let you.

[zook1shoe]

thanks for giving a longer explanation :-p