What's the second most powerful character ever?

[Surreal]

Second most powerful character ever?  DM's girlfriend's.

No, wait a second.

Second most powerful character ever?  DM's girlfriend's.

Absolutely true...






No regrets.

[Mixster]

Well, there's always The Wish and The Word, but that's two characters.  I think The Wish is cooler.

I actually prefer the Word, because it doesn't use the infinite wishes loophole.

It does use the silly thought bottle, so it is probably as bad though.

[PhaedrusXY]

It will be either a Thrallherd or Illithid Savant, since those two guys can steal everyone else's abilities without infinite loops. It's easier for the Thrallherd, though, as he doesn't have to do anything but sit back and wait for them to come to him, instead of hunting them down at eating their brains.

You could always combine the two. I'm sure there is some way of getting into IS without much of a level adjustment and you really only need 1 level of thrallherd if you have a good charisma, it is just slower.

1) Be an Illithid Savant
2) Eat a Thrallherd
3) ?
4) Profit

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Well, there's always The Wish and The Word, but that's two characters.  I think The Wish is cooler.

I actually prefer the Word, because it doesn't use the infinite wishes loophole.

It does use the silly thought bottle, so it is probably as bad though.

It also doesn't actually work.  Ioun stones don't stack.

[RobbyPants]

It also doesn't actually work.  Ioun stones don't stack.

Why not.  The description just says +1 caster level.  It doesn't give a bonus type.

[KellKheraptis]

It also doesn't actually work.  Ioun stones don't stack.

Why not.  The description just says +1 caster level.  It doesn't give a bonus type.

Identical source though.  I make TO monsters that would get books chucked at me, and I don't stack ioun stones, if that means anything...

[The_Mad_Linguist]

It also doesn't actually work.  Ioun stones don't stack.

Why not.  The description just says +1 caster level.  It doesn't give a bonus type.

stack: Combine for a cumulative effect. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack if they come from different sources and have different descriptors (or no descriptors at all), but do not stack if they have the same descriptors or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus or worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonus however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified. Spell effected that do not stack may overlap, coexist independently, or render one another irrelevant, depending on their exact effects.

Oh look, it's an orange ioun stone.  It's the same source.

[Endarire]

If Orange Ioun Stones don't stack, do The Wish and The Word still work?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Not nearly as well.  Their CLs drop significantly.

Also, you can avoid holy word spells by filling your ears with wax, so it's not like they're that useful. 

The "ring of infinite wishes" doesn't really work either, since there's nothing in wish's description that lets you decide that custom items exist (Sorry dudes, looks like the DM said a ring of infinite wishes is an artifact, and hence outside the scope of the spell, so here's a ring of infinite fishes instead).

[bearsarebrown]

The "ring of infinite wishes" doesn't really work either, since there's nothing in wish's description that lets you decide that custom items exist

It's pedantic because in the end, one wish is enough for infinite wishes.

[RobbyPants]

It also doesn't actually work.  Ioun stones don't stack.

Why not.  The description just says +1 caster level.  It doesn't give a bonus type.

stack: Combine for a cumulative effect. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack if they come from different sources and have different descriptors (or no descriptors at all), but do not stack if they have the same descriptors or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus or worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonus however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified. Spell effected that do not stack may overlap, coexist independently, or render one another irrelevant, depending on their exact effects.

Oh look, it's an orange ioun stone.  It's the same source.

That makes sense.  I missed the part about multiple spells in succession.  I was thinking separate stones were technically separate bonuses.


Edit: fixed quote tag.

[awaken DM golem]

Oh yeah, it's entirely possible to find Holes in very old builds.
iirc - The Wish and The Word were using some 3.0 material,
during the "epoch" when 3.0 material was semi-OK with that years version of CO.
Later the board said NO to 3.0, and people like ShakaUVM didn't like it.
Later later, the board allowed a creeping but slow acceptance of 3.0 into 3.5.

The Hive uses 3.0 rules, and the 3.5 Hive can't ... (harsh words !!) ... work unless it uses 3.0 rules.
So then the Hive related text in two different 3.5 books, specifically reference the 3.0 book.


Multi-crossing 3.0 and 3.5 is like in Ghostbusters, where they cross the streams ... 

[EjoThims]

I thought it was the other way around. IIRC Pun Pun can only grant himself abilities at whim. He can do this as many times as he wants. therefore, he approaches infinity.

Omnificier uses a recursion to reach actual infinity. HIVE too.

Pun-Pun can use the Omnisificer trick mixed with other abilities to get infinite to all stats, then use various abilities to base everything else off of one stat or another (or by extension, like through skill ranks), so he is truly infinite as well, in every measurable aspect.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Anyone else notice that Endaire does these question threads and then just sits back as we all go back and forth? I feel like I've just been trolled... 

[RelentlessImp]

Anyone else notice that Endaire does these question threads and then just sits back as we all go back and forth? I feel like I've just been trolled... 

Did you say trolled?

[Echoes]

I thought it was the other way around. IIRC Pun Pun can only grant himself abilities at whim. He can do this as many times as he wants. therefore, he approaches infinity.

Omnificier uses a recursion to reach actual infinity. HIVE too.

Pun-Pun can use the Omnisificer trick mixed with other abilities to get infinite to all stats, then use various abilities to base everything else off of one stat or another (or by extension, like through skill ranks), so he is truly infinite as well, in every measurable aspect.

Really, anybody can use the Omniscifier trick. It's a handful of magic items and other doodads rather than a full-blown build. The only reason it was ever brought out as the anti-Pun Pun was because (at the time) it got going a level earlier than Pun-Pun's ascension. Since Pun-Pun ascends at level 1 now, it's irrelevant although still very fun.

As stated, an Illithid Savant and/or Thrallherd can incorporate it into their ever-expanding power base without batting an eye. They get as infinite as Pun-Pun, just significantly slower. Heck, they

[RobbyPants]

stack: Combine for a cumulative effect. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack if they come from different sources and have different descriptors (or no descriptors at all), but do not stack if they have the same descriptors or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus or worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonus however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified. Spell effected that do not stack may overlap, coexist independently, or render one another irrelevant, depending on their exact effects.

Oh look, it's an orange ioun stone.  It's the same source.

Looking back on this, I'm not sure it works like that.  I mean, I'm talking RAW vs. RAI here, but two different ioun stones would be different sources.  I can see the parallel between two stones and the same spell cast twice in succession, but they're not really the same thing.

Honestly, though, I don't really care.  Those are two obviously TO builds, and DMs shouldn't allow stuff like that to stack either.

Anyone else notice that Endaire does these question threads and then just sits back as we all go back and forth? I feel like I've just been trolled... 

I just assumed he was working on some type of project and was trying to get us to do the leg-work for him.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

stack: Combine for a cumulative effect. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack if they come from different sources and have different descriptors (or no descriptors at all), but do not stack if they have the same descriptors or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus or worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonus however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified. Spell effected that do not stack may overlap, coexist independently, or render one another irrelevant, depending on their exact effects.

Oh look, it's an orange ioun stone.  It's the same source.

Looking back on this, I'm not sure it works like that.  I mean, I'm talking RAW vs. RAI here, but two different ioun stones would be different sources.  I can see the parallel between two stones and the same spell cast twice in succession, but they're not really the same thing.

A more narrow interpretation of "same source" would mean the rule never applied ever. 

An assumption that assumes rulestext to be meaningless is not one I'm willing to consider valid.

[RobbyPants]

A more narrow interpretation of "same source" would mean the rule never applied ever. 

An assumption that assumes rulestext to be meaningless is not one I'm willing to consider valid.

Good point.  And all in all, I do agree with you anyway.

[EjoThims]

I thought it was the other way around. IIRC Pun Pun can only grant himself abilities at whim. He can do this as many times as he wants. therefore, he approaches infinity.

Omnificier uses a recursion to reach actual infinity. HIVE too.

Pun-Pun can use the Omnisificer trick mixed with other abilities to get infinite to all stats, then use various abilities to base everything else off of one stat or another (or by extension, like through skill ranks), so he is truly infinite as well, in every measurable aspect.

Really, anybody can use the Omniscifier trick.

Right, and there are tons of other ways to grab every ability ever. Fusion abuse, for example. But he was asking if Pun-Pun actually goes truly infinite, and I was clarifying that he uses others' tricks to do so.

And I'd probably say HIVE or a fusion abuser would be a solid bet for 2nd place.