Author Topic: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question  (Read 3342 times)

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RobbyPants

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Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« on: November 05, 2010, 02:27:25 PM »
I've got a dread necro 100 XP from level 8 (what a sucky place to end, huh?), so I'm thinking ahead to what my next Advanced Learning spell should be.  I took my first AL spell as Kelgore's Grave Mist.

Things to note:
  • The spell needs to be 4th level or lower (she's a straight-classed DN at this point)
  • She currently wanders around with a beefed-up ogre zombie and a troll skeleton
  • She likely won't go adventuring with a large group of undead, but rather one or two powerful ones
  • It's a solo game


Books available for spells:
  • PHB
  • Spell Compendium
  • Heroes of Horror
  • Libris Mortis
  • PHB2
  • Completes (obviously, for stuff newer than the SpC)
  • BoVD

So, what are your suggestions?  Right now, I'm tentatively settled on Undead Torch from SpC, which is a 3rd level spell that adds +2d6 damage against living creatures a targeted undead creature attacks.  So, if I put that on my troll, he'll deal upward to +6d6 damage per round.

I feel I could be doing better, though.  The raw damage is kinda nice, but is there something better I'm missing?  I've only looked through the SpC at this point.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 02:57:32 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 02:45:24 PM »
Can't take Shivering Touch?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 02:46:33 PM »
From searching imarvintpa, Wither looks pretty good. It's from Sandstorm, and supposedly deals 1d6 damage/level (max 10d6) dessication damage and causes dehydration. IIRC, dehydration = exhaustion or fatigue, and it's hard to heal.

Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt
also looks decent (Bolt of dark energy deals 1d3 Str and Con damage +1/four levels), especially if you have some metamagic to apply to it.

Also, depending on how you interpret it, Zombie Eyes (or Eyes of the Zombie, I forget...) from the BoVD can be awesome. It is basically like a Magic Jar that works on zombies only, but also doesn't carry the risk of dying if your target is killed or dispelled. It says you "directly control the actions" of the zombie, which sounds like to me you could do whatever you want with it, within the limitations of zombies. I'd think spellcasting should work, unless the zombie lacks proper appendages, etc. You'd probably be limited to one partial action per round, but that's a decent tradeoff for not risking death, I think. The fluff is also awesome (you cut out your own eyes and place them into the zombie's eyesockets, and they return after the duration  :smirk ). It also lasts 1hr/lvl, IIRC.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 02:56:20 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 02:55:42 PM »
Can't take Shivering Touch?
I don't have Frostburn, AKA It's Cold Outside.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 02:57:13 PM »
Also, depending on how you interpret it, Zombie Eyes (or Eyes of the Zombie, I forget...) from the BoVD can be awesome. It is basically like a Magic Jar that works on zombies only, but also doesn't carry the risk of dying if your target is killed or dispelled. It says you "directly control the actions" of the zombie, which sounds like to me you could do whatever you want with it, within the limitations of zombies. I'd think spellcasting should work, unless the zombie lacks proper appendages, etc. You'd probably be limited to one partial action per round, but that's a decent tradeoff for not risking death, I think. The fluff is also awesome (you cut out your own eyes and place them into the zombie's eyesockets, and they return after the duration  :smirk ). It also lasts 1hr/lvl, IIRC.
Damn.  I kinda forgot about BoVD (I'll update the OP), but that does seem kinda cool.  So I can just take over a zombie and leave my actual body somewhere safe?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 03:08:26 PM »
Also, depending on how you interpret it, Zombie Eyes (or Eyes of the Zombie, I forget...) from the BoVD can be awesome. It is basically like a Magic Jar that works on zombies only, but also doesn't carry the risk of dying if your target is killed or dispelled. It says you "directly control the actions" of the zombie, which sounds like to me you could do whatever you want with it, within the limitations of zombies. I'd think spellcasting should work, unless the zombie lacks proper appendages, etc. You'd probably be limited to one partial action per round, but that's a decent tradeoff for not risking death, I think. The fluff is also awesome (you cut out your own eyes and place them into the zombie's eyesockets, and they return after the duration  :smirk ). It also lasts 1hr/lvl, IIRC.
Damn.  I kinda forgot about BoVD (I'll update the OP), but that does seem kinda cool.  So I can just take over a zombie and leave my actual body somewhere safe?
The text is a bit vague, so YMMV, but yeah, basically. IIRC, it's only like 3rd level, also.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

JaronK

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 06:20:31 AM »

RobbyPants

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 04:00:25 PM »
Thanks for the link.  I'll see what I can find.

BTW, Zombie Eyes is Divination.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2010, 04:10:58 PM »
There are some good suggestions in there.  Before I read Undead Torch, I was considering Skull Watch.  Luckily, I have a friendly necromancer cleric NPC who can cast this so long as I provide skulls.

I'll have to give Haunt Shift a read-through.  Sounds interesting.  Also, will it register as undead with stuff like Detect Undead?  It's a bit of a campaign issue.


Edit:
Looking at Haunt Shift (for 12th level): how do you control the object?  It says it can't be rebuked.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 06:31:32 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 01:14:02 AM »
There's a spell in Complete Champion that allows you to teleport between undead.  It's a Conjuration spell, but can explicitly be chosen by the Dread Necro's advanced learning.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Phoenix00

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 01:22:40 AM »
The spell PhaedrusXY is refering to called Eyes of the Zombie page 94 and 95 of BOVD.  I don't think you can cast spells in that zombie form, since all you are doing is controlling the zombie instantly, it says nothing about you actually being the zombie.

If you use an advanced learning you can make it a 2nd level spell (due to you being able to take it as a cleric) or a 3rd level spell (due to you taking it as a wizard.)

Sadly you can't chain Eyes of the Zombie, even though you can chain Magic Jar.

---------------------

Book of Vile Darkness also has the necromancy spell Wrack (Cleric 3, Sorc/Wiz 4).  If you are in a campaign that is mostly humanoids this is an awesome spell.  Only against humanoids you can target a creature within close range.  The target makes a fort save, if they fail the save three things happen
1)  The target is blind
2)  The target can't take actions
3)  The target is considered helpless (thus you can coup de grace him).
The duration of these three effects is rounds/level.  After that duration is done the target is not longer affected by those three effects but is now considered shaken for 3d10 minutes.  This spell also can be chained.

Pretty much it as good Save or Lose as the Illusion spell Curse of the Putrid Husk (Sorc/Wiz 3, also from the same book).  Except it targets fort while Curse of the Putrid Husk targets Will, and Curse of the Putrid Husk is fear/mind affecting while Wrack is only humanoids.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 01:38:58 AM by Phoenix00 »

JaronK

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 03:39:09 AM »
I'll have to give Haunt Shift a read-through.  Sounds interesting.  Also, will it register as undead with stuff like Detect Undead?  It's a bit of a campaign issue.


Edit:
Looking at Haunt Shift (for 12th level): how do you control the object?  It says it can't be rebuked.

It takes a lot of work to figure it out.

First of all, you rebuke it BEFORE you haunt shift it into the new object.  This means the controlling essence is yours (remember, in D&D effects stay on a target even if the target changes to later being invalid).  It's probably not going to detect under Detect Undead, considering it defaults to the rules for Animate Object (which is actually a construct).  It has 60ft of vision and no more, though other abilities might help it detect at longer range (for example, putting a Bone Creature Beguiler/Mindbender with Mindsight into a haunting).  It has the mental scores of the undead, but the physical stats of an Animated Object of the appropriate size, and has the hardness of such an object (making Dwarvencraft Quality Obdurium critters extremely durable).

Anyway, it takes a lot of work to figure out what all Haunt Shift does, but it's amazing once you figure it out.  Especially consider making bodies for the purpose... remember that extra legs give more speed, wing like surfaces let them blind enemies while grappling, etc.  Also remember that the body is an object before you cast Haunt Shift, so certain long duration spells are worth casting... Invisibility can be made permanent on an object (though attacking would still break it) and Shrink Item on a Huge object turns it Tiny, so with Permanent Shrink Item you can have something that swaps from battle form to concealable form.

My favorite battle form to give a minion is a Huge statue that looks like a claw footed centaur with four arms and giant wings.  The wings don't let it fly, but they do blind enemies in grapples, and nothing stops the critter from using all those arms.  The clawed feat is mostly just so it makes sense to have the thing climb about.

JaronK

RobbyPants

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Re: Dread Necro Advanced Learning question
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 11:25:17 AM »
There's a spell in Complete Champion that allows you to teleport between undead.  It's a Conjuration spell, but can explicitly be chosen by the Dread Necro's advanced learning.
That's 5th level, IIRC, so I'll consider that for my 12th level choice.


The spell PhaedrusXY is refering to called Eyes of the Zombie page 94 and 95 of BOVD.  I don't think you can cast spells in that zombie form, since all you are doing is controlling the zombie instantly, it says nothing about you actually being the zombie.
It's a Divination spell, though.


Book of Vile Darkness also has the necromancy spell Wrack (Cleric 3, Sorc/Wiz 4).
I thought about that one too.  It was ported over to the SpC, but it still looks decent.  I think all they did was raise the level from 3 to 4.


It takes a lot of work to figure it out.
I'm going to have to give this some thought for 12th level, too.  It looks potentially awesome.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]