Useful stuff to UMD?

[Kuroimaken]

I'd say no. Activate blindly might work, but in the description it says that it works for special words, thoughts or actions. I really don't know. However if you could emulate the true believer feat somehow (as a class feature probably - i don't know of any classes that offer it though) for a certain god, you could probably use relics.

I'd say yes.

Why? Because most clerics have to be a cleric of SOMETHING. That something is part of the class itself. Basically, you trick the item into thinking you really worship that deity.

//again, i don't want to argue about this. Let's just say that this thread is about items to UMD, no cheesy applications of the skill.

I believe most will agree that any staff, wand or rod is extremely useful for that purpose. There aren't that many class-, alignment- or race-specific items out there that are SO worth using that you need a list. And out of those, pretty much the class-specific items work with a class feature you're supposed to have anyway, so unless there's no problem with not having the class feature in the first place, there's no point in emulating them (the Holy Avenger is an exception, but I think there aren't that many other exceptions out there).

[Akalsaris]

Hey, I did list the wand of orcus, what could be more useful than that??   

(Though I vaguely remember the 2E version kicking a lot more ass...)

[Catty Nebulart]

Necroing a bit, but what about all the items that let you expend bardic music or turining undead to some other effect?

Such as using the 'bow of songs' from MiC to add cha to hit and damage. Would this allow unlimited uses or just as many uses as you can emulate the classlevel for? (eg 1/level/day, means to use it the 3'rd time in the day you need to emulate a 3'rd level bard, or DC 23, going up by one per use etc.)

[X-Codes]

Necroing a bit, but what about all the items that let you expend bardic music or turining undead to some other effect?

Such as using the 'bow of songs' from MiC to add cha to hit and damage. Would this allow unlimited uses or just as many uses as you can emulate the classlevel for? (eg 1/level/day, means to use it the 3'rd time in the day you need to emulate a 3'rd level bard, or DC 23, going up by one per use etc.)

I think the general consensus is that you just can't use these items.  That said, the way you've described it isn't a terrible way to handle it if you wanted to implement such a thing.

[Catty Nebulart]

I think the general consensus is that you just can't use these items.  That said, the way you've described it isn't a terrible way to handle it if you wanted to implement such a thing.

Why wouldn't you be able to use it? Emulate a class feature is one of the basic things UMD lets you do, and last I checked bardic music was a class feature.

Now granted UMD species that you can't use the feature, but you are not using bardic music you are activating the item.

RAI and RAW are pretty clear in that you forinstance couldn't used emulates evasion to avoid all damage on things that are ref 1/2, even if you are currently emulating it to activate an item that relied on evasion to work.

[X-Codes]

I think the general consensus is that you just can't use these items.  That said, the way you've described it isn't a terrible way to handle it if you wanted to implement such a thing.

Why wouldn't you be able to use it? Emulate a class feature is one of the basic things UMD lets you do, and last I checked bardic music was a class feature.

Now granted UMD species that you can't use the feature, but you are not using bardic music you are activating the item.

RAI and RAW are pretty clear in that you forinstance couldn't used emulates evasion to avoid all damage on things that are ref 1/2, even if you are currently emulating it to activate an item that relied on evasion to work.

Right, but you need an actual use of Bardic Music in order to have a Bardic Music attempt to spend for these items.  Even though it's in an a-typical manner, you are still using Bardic Music to power the Bow of Songs.

[Catty Nebulart]

Right, but you need an actual use of Bardic Music in order to have a Bardic Music attempt to spend for these items.  Even though it's in an a-typical manner, you are still using Bardic Music to power the Bow of Songs.

I can see your reading of UMD, the raw is somewhat unclear, unless I am missing something.

Your argument is that "This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class." means that even though you can emulate bardic music you can't expend uses of it to power the item.
My argument is basically the next sentence; "It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature." lets you expend your emulated bardic music since you emulate it.

Is that understanding correct?

In context I think that sentence means that for all purposes except activating the item you don't have the class feature. I know you disagree but can you squint and at least see my reading as reasonable RAW and RAI?

[Dictum Mortuum]

Here's another one: Talisman of the Twelve Moons. +2 CL if you have wild shape, +1 CL while outdoors during the night. 4.500gp, usable by shifters only. 25 DC to emulate race and ta-dah If you don't have the wild shape class feature, the DC of emulating it is 20.

[veekie]

Scroll of Body Outside Body for any martial type? I mean sure, it doesn't cover casting or equipment, but theres all those nice class features and feat setups to milk...

[JollyGreenGargant]

The Black Patch from Defenders of the Faith provides a +2 competence bonus to ranged attacks and saves against illusions for 8800g.  There are two problems however:
1. Its a 3.0 item, and some DM's are allergic to anything pre-3.5 (just take a look at some of the monsters from MM2)
2. You have to be an Orc (easy) and have a blinded or removed eye (not so easy)
The one character I had that used this item used to rub weaponblack in his eye before putting it on 

[Fadier]

I have wondered if you could UMD a Quill of Scribing (CM 133) to bypass needing the scribe scroll feat.

[bearsarebrown]

@Bow Of Songs, I think it's RAW and RAI cut and dry that it can be UMD'd. The example given in the PHB has a Rouge use a Turn Undead attempt to power a magic Chalice. The difference between a Turn attempt and Bardic Music in this case is trivial, they're both class features.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

@Bow Of Songs, I think it's RAW and RAI cut and dry that it can be UMD'd. The example given in the PHB has a Rouge use a Turn Undead attempt to power a magic Chalice. The difference between a Turn attempt and Bardic Music in this case is trivial, they're both class features.

I wonder if WotC had any idea how dangerous a precedent they were setting...

Just reminding all that you can only UMD one race at a time. Iirc it means you can't pretend to be two different races even to two different items. Finally some limits.

[bearsarebrown]

UMD strikes me as a sacred cow that was pitched in initial development then dropped as the game developed. With the exception of wands and scrolls it's so rarely used that when it is it feels so dirty.

Other ideas for UMD: Martial Items from ToB and those gloves that grant iTWF if you have TWF.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Other ideas for UMD: Martial Items from ToB and those gloves that grant iTWF if you have TWF.

Do those really work? I thought of the same thing while writing a rogue's handbook during the summer, but since you don't have the two weapon fighting feat, don't you get normal penalties for ITWF?

//edit: to be exact, i mentioned a couple of days ago and someone said the above, but I haven't checked it yet

[bearsarebrown]

You're right about iTWF. You still take the big penalties. Oh well, it was an idea.

UMD for Martial Items still works though, right? Both Discipline weapons(+3 to attack for +1 enhancement) and the ones that grant maneuvers?

[Dictum Mortuum]

UMD for Martial Items still works though, right? Both Discipline weapons(+3 to attack for +1 enhancement) and the ones that grant maneuvers?

Probably

I.. can't really say. I'd be cool though to get a +1 discipline1 discipline2 .. disciplineN weapon and UMD all the disciplines for great success

[X-Codes]

Right, but you need an actual use of Bardic Music in order to have a Bardic Music attempt to spend for these items.  Even though it's in an a-typical manner, you are still using Bardic Music to power the Bow of Songs.

I can see your reading of UMD, the raw is somewhat unclear, unless I am missing something.

Your argument is that "This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class." means that even though you can emulate bardic music you can't expend uses of it to power the item.
My argument is basically the next sentence; "It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature." lets you expend your emulated bardic music since you emulate it.

Is that understanding correct?

In context I think that sentence means that for all purposes except activating the item you don't have the class feature. I know you disagree but can you squint and at least see my reading as reasonable RAW and RAI?

No, I can't.  Expending a use of bardic music is using bardic music, which the first sentence cannot be more explicit in prohibiting.

[bearsarebrown]

No, I can't.  Expending a use of bardic music is using bardic music, which the first sentence cannot be more explicit in prohibiting.

And how do you feel about the PHB example of UMDing a class feature being a Rogue powering a Chalice with turn undead attempts?

[X-Codes]

No, I can't.  Expending a use of bardic music is using bardic music, which the first sentence cannot be more explicit in prohibiting.

And how do you feel about the PHB example of UMDing a class feature being a Rogue powering a Chalice with turn undead attempts?

Incorrect example #NI+1.