Author Topic: Most ineffective gestalt character ever  (Read 8905 times)

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carnivore

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Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« on: November 05, 2010, 11:32:56 AM »
What is the Weakest Gestalt Character .... using only Base Classes(EXCLUDING NPC Classes)?

the goal is to try to find some Combo that is weak simply because of the Class choices ... you could make Artificer weak by using a VOP, but that is not the goal here. also try to avoid Impossible combos(Paladin of Freedom//Paldin of Tyranny)

here are what is considered the weakest Classes(not including NPC classes):

Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Zhentarium Variant)

Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight, CW Samurai (with Imperious Command available)

CW Samurai, Truenamer




so far the  list at the Bottom is:

Ninja//Monk
Soulknife//Truenamer




then the next question would be .... can you Optimize that Combo and make it Strong?

 :D
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:36:03 PM by carnivore »

Emo_Duck

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 11:39:32 AM »
Commoner//Samurai?

I'm sure some Iaijutsu Focus combined with Chicken Infested could still make it playable.

telehax

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 11:41:54 AM »
I think I like the elegance of the Paladin of Freedom//Paladin of Tyranny.

snakeman830

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 11:45:50 AM »
Commoner//Samurai?

I'm sure some Iaijutsu Focus combined with Chicken Infested could still make it playable.
OA Samurai is a higher tier than CW Samurai.  CW Samurai doesn't get Iiajitsu Focus.

I would think the weakest possible gestalt involving just PC classes would either be Soulknife Truenamer or CWSamurai Truenamer.  Soulknife/Samurai would be pretty weak too, but it might be able to actually do something.  The other two are a non-functional class + a nearly worthless one.
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telehax

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 11:48:23 AM »
I dunno, simply sticking two sucky classes together seems boring. Try making something with antisynergies!

snakeman830

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 12:22:17 PM »
I dunno, simply sticking two sucky classes together seems boring. Try making something with antisynergies!
I did.  Nothing a Truenamer gets synergizes with the other two classes and vice-versa.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 12:22:30 PM »
NG
Wizard1///Druid1

don't summon your familiar
step 1 beat your animal companion until it dies or leaves :(I think this counts as "ceases to revere nature" to lose all your class abilities)
step 2 sell your spell book and buy:  (didn't check gold on this, but u can buy ladders to get more)
                         1 metal locked gauntlet (loose your druid abilities)
                         4 holy arrows
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step 3 pay someone to put the quiver with all 5 arrows in the locked gauntlet (as an improvised weapon)
step 4 wear the locked gauntlet
step 5 die from negative level

step 6 rise as a wight the next night
step 7 die from 4 negative levels(from the holy arrows)

step 8 rise as a wight the next night
step 9 die from 4 negative levels(from the holy arrows)
etc......... come back from the dead only to die every night forever, or until some 1 steals your gauntlet, even then you're a freaking wight
                        
option 2 (no items)
[spoiler]
Druid1///Wizard1
have your lizard familiar attack your riding dog animal companion, it kills your familiar, your lose all druid class abilities, then sell your spell book and buy something stupid, like a bunch of mundane furniture... :lol
[/spoiler]
challenge part 2
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 12:23:27 PM »
I think this should exclude NPC classes... otherwise it is too easy.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 12:27:58 PM »
I think this should exclude NPC classes... otherwise it is too easy.
Yeah.  Otherwise you just mix commoner and warrior.  If people get worried about commoner being too good because of April Fools Dragon feats, then swap commoner for CW Samurai.  Then you're essentially playing a straight-up CW samurai with nothing else added, other than maybe a class skill or two.
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 12:30:39 PM »
Soulknife // Truenamer may not be the absolute worst, but appeals to me.  Will get something down later.

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 01:01:26 PM »
what is everyone using to determine "Weakness" or "ineffectiveness"?

Soulknife 20/ CW Samurai 20 .... IMHO, is actually a very strong, effective character .... it would not be compared to a Full Spellcaster, but it could be easily able to address most any CR 20 encounters it is faced with

strengths:
Full BAB
d10 HD
ALL Good saves
Kiai Smite
Bonus Feats:
Soulknife: Wildtalent(or Hidden Talent ACF and the ability to choose it more than once at higher levels), Weapon Focus(Mindblade),Speed of Thought, Greater Weapon Focus(Mindblade), Quickdraw(effectively for Mindblade)+ 5 more if you use Bonus Feats ACF
CW Samurai: TWF, ImpTWF, Greater TWF, Imp Initiative, Quickdraw

great Class Skills:
Autohypnosis* (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration* (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide(Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics)* (Int),Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis),Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).


you gain a Free +9 Katana that you can throw(also Bladewind+Kiai Smite = Ka-boom) + Intimidate Class features ...... thus you are free to spend the rest of your money on useful stuff, and have the rest of your feats to further boost your Martial Abilities .... Mage Slayer is a great focus for this type of build

i dont see the great Weakness or Ineffectiveness of this Build ... why is it considered so Bad?

 :D

Ramaloke

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 01:10:53 PM »
Wizard 1||Archivist 1

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carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2010, 01:13:31 PM »
the goal is not to take a High tier class and intentionally make it weak .... but to find out what is the Weakest Class Combos

Tier 1// Tier 1 .... is not a Weak/ Ineffective gestalt combo

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 01:21:43 PM »
here are what is considered the weakest Classes(not including NPC classes):

Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Zhentarium Variant)

Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight, CW Samurai (with Imperious Command available)

CW Samurai, Truenamer

but when you use Combinations of them .... they actually become far Stronger "than the sum of thier parts"

 :D

« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 01:37:37 PM by carnivore »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2010, 01:28:50 PM »
Adept is an NPC class, Carnivore. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2010, 01:37:19 PM »
opps ... i was just copy/pasting .. and forgot to edit it out ... thanks

 :D

MalcolmSprye

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2010, 01:47:27 PM »
I'm assuming that we're looking for something that's weak for a gestalt character, right?  So... how about something like Monk/Bard? I know bard feels like its too high tier... but consider that this character would  take MAD to the extreme! Take a monk, who already wants Str, Wis, Con, and possibly Dex.  Add on the bard who's going to need at least a decent charisma, or he won't be able to cast his spells! :D  Oh... and they're not Sorc/wizard spells...

Overall... you shouldn't be much more powerful than a single classed character, since one or another of your abilities will be total crap, or they'll all be slightly useless.

Edit: OH..... oops... this is a terrible build, since its CHEATING.  Alignment conflicts make this impossible.  Hrm.... are there any other charisma based classes(not sorcerer) that we could tack on to monk?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 01:50:42 PM by MalcolmSprye »

Ithamar

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 01:50:07 PM »
Monk || Ninja - A few of their class abilities overlap and would be wasted, and the rest... Meh.
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carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 02:07:41 PM »
I'm assuming that we're looking for something that's weak for a gestalt character, right?  So... how about something like Monk/Bard? I know bard feels like its too high tier... but consider that this character would  take MAD to the extreme! Take a monk, who already wants Str, Wis, Con, and possibly Dex.  Add on the bard who's going to need at least a decent charisma, or he won't be able to cast his spells! :D  Oh... and they're not Sorc/wizard spells...

Overall... you shouldn't be much more powerful than a single classed character, since one or another of your abilities will be total crap, or they'll all be slightly useless.

Edit: OH..... oops... this is a terrible build, since its CHEATING.  Alignment conflicts make this impossible.  Hrm.... are there any other charisma based classes(not sorcerer) that we could tack on to monk?

very nice idea .... Chaos Monk(Dragon Mag)//Bard would work and be a weak Gestalt .... or you could simply use regular Monk//Bard, and take the feat:
Ordered Chaos[spoiler]Ordered Chaos
Type: General
Source: Fiendish Codex I : Hordes of the Abyss

You are an unusually lawful Abyssal heritor.

Prerequisite: Non-chaotic alignment, base Will save +4.
Benefit: Your alignment is not affected by the Abyssal heritor feats you possess. Spells and effects that are keyed to alignment affect you as if you were chaotic, as well as your actual alignment. For example, you become immune to spells such as chaos hammer and word of chaos, you could wield an anarchic weapon without fear of gaining a negative level, and you could take the Primordial Scion feat despite its chaotic alignment prerequisite.

[/spoiler]
but it would require something else until you had +4 Will save ..... xxxx 4/ Bard 16/ Monk 20 would work
Monk || Ninja - A few of their class abilities overlap and would be wasted, and the rest... Meh.
this is exactly what i am talking about .... it would indeed be very Weak, far Weaker than CW Samurai// Soulknife

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 02:20:21 PM »
just as something for Reference .... here is something that seems very strong to me:

Marshal// Truenamer  ..... very powerful Buff/Debuff, Face character, Skillmonkey ... unlimited use Buffs for Party(Auras) ... Cha focused

many look at the Truenamer as weak, but when combined with the right Class in a Gestalt build ... it gains a lot of Strength and versatility

 :D