I like the idea of a Sorcerer but dislike some of its mechanics. Options?

[PhaedrusXY]

1) A few extra spells known would be handy.  I really doubt the game would break if you simply added 1 to each spell level at all caster levels.  Then, when you gained a new level, you'd have two of your top level spell instead of one.  

2) Also, there is no reason whatsoever that a spontaneous caster shouldn't be able to use Quicken Spell.  Like, at all.  

3) Lastly, an easier spell swapping mechanic would help someone who picked a bad spell, and make it possible to pick a spell that's useful at low level and then to drop it at high level.

I think those three things would make the class more appealing.  It still wouldn't be a wizard at high levels, but it'd be solidly more playable and manageable.

The main thing that always stuck in my craw about the sorcerer is the delayed spell acquisition. I see no reason whatsoever for them to be behind the wizard, druid, and cleric. Just dropping that would be enough to entice me to play them (without resorting to dragonwrought kobold cheese...).

[RobbyPants]

I've seen someone draw up a table at the Den that just lowered the level by one on all accounts, and then create a new row for 20th level at the end.  So you use the 2nd level spells known and per day at 1st level.  Doesn't seem too broken.

[PhaedrusXY]

I've seen someone draw up a table at the Den that just lowered the level by one on all accounts, and then create a new row for 20th level at the end.  So you use the 2nd level spells known and per day at 1st level.  Doesn't seem too broken.

I do the same thing in my games.

[jameswilliamogle]

I like Sorcerers even as is.  Wizards are a true PIA to play with and require a lot of out of game work.  I'm not into it.  Yep.  4 spells per level.  If that won't do, I'll buy a scroll.

[juton]

In Pathfinder's Advanced Player's Guide there are new rules for favoured classes. Every time you take a level in a favourite class you can choose an extra hitpoint, an extra skillpoint or some other benefit. The benefit for a Sorcerer is an extra spell known, although it can't be at the highest level you can cast, basically the Extra Spell feat from Complete Arcane. So in 3.5 a Sorcerer gets 34 spells known, in Pathfinder they get 43 and with this bonus they get 60 in total. You'd be right in thinking this is a big difference, Sorcerers have a lot more flexibility in combat and in a few more generic situations. Wizards where still the one who could choose wall of stone, shape stone and fabricate to create a house one day and then switch spells to go adventuring.

Seeing a Sorcerer be able to compete with a Wizard is pretty new to 3.X, maybe just maybe if I was playing something that was straight combat I'd choose a Sorcerer because they can cover all the bases. If the game had time between adventures, even a few days the Wizard is still better IMHO because they can cover every base, not just combat.

[Vynar]

1) A few extra spells known would be handy.  I really doubt the game would break if you simply added 1 to each spell level at all caster levels.  Then, when you gained a new level, you'd have two of your top level spell instead of one.  

2) Also, there is no reason whatsoever that a spontaneous caster shouldn't be able to use Quicken Spell.  Like, at all.  

3) Lastly, an easier spell swapping mechanic would help someone who picked a bad spell, and make it possible to pick a spell that's useful at low level and then to drop it at high level.

I think those three things would make the class more appealing.  It still wouldn't be a wizard at high levels, but it'd be solidly more playable and manageable.

The main thing that always stuck in my craw about the sorcerer is the delayed spell acquisition. I see no reason whatsoever for them to be behind the wizard, druid, and cleric. Just dropping that would be enough to entice me to play them (without resorting to dragonwrought kobold cheese...).

Oh yeah, I have to agree the delayed spell acquisition is what keeps me from playing a sorcerer even if on paper they seem nifty. I feel the urge to kobold things up to just be casting the same level spells as everyone else not because I want to be silly.

[JaronK]

Easy way to solve the spells known issue: take the Master of the Arcane Order PrC.  Problem instantly solved.  If you don't like the delayed spell progression, you could always be a Kobold...

JaronK

[RobbyPants]

I've seen someone draw up a table at the Den that just lowered the level by one on all accounts, and then create a new row for 20th level at the end.  So you use the 2nd level spells known and per day at 1st level.  Doesn't seem too broken.

I do the same thing in my games.

Has it worked pretty well?

[juton]

I've done the same thing, it's such an innocuous change that if you have, say a Cleric and a Favoured Soul in the same party you might never notice it, except that the Favoured Soul is just a bit happier because he has more shinnies.

[Nunkuruji]

A cool DM who allows Knowstones, and regularly replaces spellbook treasure with them.

[PhaedrusXY]

I've seen someone draw up a table at the Den that just lowered the level by one on all accounts, and then create a new row for 20th level at the end.  So you use the 2nd level spells known and per day at 1st level.  Doesn't seem too broken.

I do the same thing in my games.

Has it worked pretty well?

Pretty much what Juton said. I ran a game where I had a wizard PC and a battle-sorcerer gish in the same party while using that rule. It just made the gish's casting a bit less gimpy than the wizard's. I also allowed sorcerers to choose spells known from any list back then, but that was a long time ago. Now there are so many ways to add spells known, and lots of good sorcerer-only spells, so I don't do that anymore. So the gish was walking around with a spell list that had Divine Power, Righteous Might, and all the good sorc/wiz buffs, too. He still didn't outshine the wizard... who was an incantatrix... but he made a fantastic BSF with some options that a non-caster wouldn't have been able to pull off.

[BeholderSlayer]

I like the one bonus spell known per sorcerer level thing.

[RobbyPants]

I like the one bonus spell known per sorcerer level thing.

I haven't play-tested it out, but it seems pretty reasonable, to me.  Also, if you use the Battle Sorcerer variant, then you'd effectively have the spells known as a PHB sorcerer, which wouldn't be as crippling.  Of course, it would still fall solidly behind the sorcerer in terms of power.

[veekie]

In Pathfinder's Advanced Player's Guide there are new rules for favoured classes. Every time you take a level in a favourite class you can choose an extra hitpoint, an extra skillpoint or some other benefit. The benefit for a Sorcerer is an extra spell known, although it can't be at the highest level you can cast, basically the Extra Spell feat from Complete Arcane. So in 3.5 a Sorcerer gets 34 spells known, in Pathfinder they get 43 and with this bonus they get 60 in total. You'd be right in thinking this is a big difference, Sorcerers have a lot more flexibility in combat and in a few more generic situations.

Oh yeah, that, it actually does give them enough flexibility that it matters a lot. Sure, they're a spell level late, but in terms of immediate breadth(assuming the wizard is not using divinations to decide his spells/day, which some DMs take umbrage to) this is solid gold.

[RobbyPants]

Here's what the tables would look like if you bump the advancement up a level (treat 2 as 1, 3 as 2, etc, and create a new row for level 20) and add one spell known per spell level:

Spells Per Day

Lvl  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9

Spells Known

Lvl  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9

That doesn't look too bad.

[Hallack]

Several options presented here look decent.  I've always wanted to play a Sorcerer but the spells were always just too limited for me to stomach.  If I'm going to go Spontaneous and spend resources to add spells to my list then I figure I may as well just play a Beguiler and use the resources to add to an already broader list that is also INT based.

Or as mentioned above, just be a wizard with its myriad of spontaneous options.