Author Topic: Noble (3.5)  (Read 2911 times)

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Cannotthink

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Noble (3.5)
« on: November 01, 2010, 11:58:15 PM »

Out of Dragonlance, the noble seemed like a decent enough concept, but it just sucked horribly. Most of its abilities seemed to scream out 'I'm a bard without spells', but a real bard without spells is still better. Even the description of the noble's special ability 'favor' just seemed vague and probably more easily done with a charisma check or a charisma based skill check.

Overall, I killed off a bunch of needless dead levels and hopefully have transformed the noble from bard wannabe to super aids guy with meaningful connections everywhere.

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Older
[spoiler]1      Bonus Class Skill, Favor

2      Inspire Confidence +1 1/day

3      Bonus Feat

4      Inspire Confidence 2/day, Coordinate +1

5      Bonus Class Skill

6      Inspire Confidence 3/day

7      Inspire Confidence +2, Bonus Feat

8      Coordinate +2

9      Inspire Confidence 4/day

10      Bonus Class Skill, Skill Mastery

11      Inspire Confidence +3, Bonus Feat, Inspire Greatness 1/day (one ally)

12      Inspire Confidence 5/day, Coordinate +3

13      Improved Coordination

14      Inspire Greatness 2/day (two allies)

15      Bonus Class Skill, Bonus Feat, Greater Inspire Confidence

16      Inspire Confidence +4 6/day, Coordinate +4

17      Inspire Greatness 3/day (three allies)

18      Skill Mastery

19      Bonus Feat

20      Inspire Confidence +5 7/day, Bonus Class Skill, Inspire Greatness 4/day (four allies), Coordinate +5

Hit Die: d8

Average BAB

Good reflex and will saves

Skill Points: 6+int (x4 at first level)

Skill List: Appraise (int), Bluff (cha), Diplomacy (cha), Gather Information (cha), Intimidate (cha), Knowledge (all, each taken individually) (int), Listen (wis), Perform (cha), Ride (dex), Sense Motive (wis)

A noble is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Bonus Class Skill: At each indicated level, a noble may choose any skill to become a class skill.

Favor (ex): After years of forging connections with a variety of people, it's about time you make use of every last one. You may call in favors a number of times per week equal to half your Noble level rounded down (minimum one). Calling in a favor takes one hour to attempt. Roll a d20 and add your noble level and your charisma bonus to the roll. You may add a +2 bonus to the roll by spending additional favor uses for each extra spent. The DC for this varies depending on the type of favor asked. You do not automatically succeed on a natural 20 nor do you automatically fail on a natural 1.

   Borrow equipment-Select a piece of equipment you would like to borrow from your contact. The equipment may be any magical or mundane item. DC 10+ twice the desired equipment's item level. You may borrow the equipment for one day, after which you must return the borrowed equipment. Add 1 to the DC for each additional piece of equipment with an equal or lesser item level that you wish to borrow. Add 1 to the DC for each additional day you wish to borrow the desired equipment.

   Aquire service-Select an NPC you wish to have acompany you on your adventure. This character has levels in a single NPC class of your choice. You may describe a particular area of expertise, however the specifics of the character are up to your DM's disgression. The character will acompany you for one day and asks that you provide the necessary equipment for any tasks you want accomplished. After this time, the NPC returns home. DC 15+twice the desired character's level. Add 1 to the DC for each additional day you wish the NPC to accompany you. Add 1 to the DC for each additional character of equal or lower level you wish to accompany you. Add 2 to the DC if you want the character to bring their own equipment, supplies, or material components.

   More specialized favors; such as providing lodging, travel, information; can most likely be accomplished through appropriate descriptions of the type of favor and use of the two previous options. Anything not covered but can be reasonably accomodated is under DM disgression such as having a new law passed, pardoning a prisoner, setting up or disbanding organizations. You DM can set the DC for these types of favors as deemed appropriate. Success or failure of a mission should not rest solely on the use of a favor nor should they be used to completely circumvent the use of other skills and abilities to accomplish tasks. That is, it is inappropriate to politely ask the evil wizard to quit his job because you have connections with his minion union.

   It becomes more difficult to actually locate anyone you've had contact with in lesser populated areas. You take a -2 penalty to make favors in rural areas. You may be able to find people travelling outside of population centers. Unpopulated areas just outside of villiages and towns force a -5 penalty to make favors. Barren areas, such as artic wastes, deserts, the open sea, make it impossible to locate anyone to make favors with normally. If you actually find somebody in this sort of area, you may attempt to make a favor at a -20 penalty.

   If, while taking advantage of a favor, you cause unnecessary damage or destruction to the life or property you are making use of; you take a cumulative -2 penalty to any future attempts to take favors. This includes and is not limited to the loss, breakage, or unwillingness to return borrowed property or leaving those in service of you injured, killed, or left to their own devices. You may avoid this penalty by paying off the value of the property borrowed or maintaining the health of people you've asked help from. These penalties last until you make proper reparations for the misdeeds and six months after. The character wronged by your actions may no longer desire to perform favors for you.

Inspire Confidence (ex): You may activate this ability as a swift action a number of times per day as indicate in the table. Any ally that hears you gains a +1 competence bonus on saving throws and a +1 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls for 5+your charisma modifier rounds. These bonuses increase to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 11, +4 at level 16, and +5 at level 20.

Bonus Feat: At each indicated level, you may select a feat from the following list: Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Autonomous, Decietful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Investigator, Magical Aptitude, Negotiator, Nimble Fingers, Open Minded, Persuasive, Psionic Affinity, Self Sufficient, Skill Focus, Stealthy, Toughness

Coordinate: You are a master of making people work together. You gain the indicated bonus to all your checks made to aid another.

Skill Mastery:
at level 10 and again at level 18, select a number of skills equal to 3+your intellegence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

Inpsire Greatness: As a swift action, you may inspire greatness in an ally. You may do this as many times per day and affecting as many allies as indicated in the table. This ability provides two bonus temporary hit die (2d10, apply the target's constitution modifier), the commensurate number of temporary hit points, a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls and a +2 morale bonus to saving throws for 5+your charisma modifier rounds.

Improved Coordination (ex):
At level 13, you are able to spread your advice and expertise with greater ease. Any action you are able to provide aid for with a standard action may now be done with a move action. Bonuses from aid another attempts made in this fashion do not stack with themselves. For example, a level 16 noble that is attempting to aid a fighter ally may provide him with a +6 circumstance bonus to his next attack and AC against the next attack for one round; the noble may not, however, stack two +6 bonuses to either attack nor AC to produce a +12 bonus.[/spoiler]
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Newer

1      Bonus Class Skill, Favor, Inspiration, Inspire Confidence +1

2      Coordinatator

3      Bonus Feat

4      Distant Aid

5      Bonus Class Skill, Inspire Failure

6      Inspire Confidence +2, Improved Coordination

7      Bonus Feat

8      Lingering Advice

9      

10      Bonus Class Skill, Skill Mastery, Crowd Coordination

11      Inspire Confidence +3, Bonus Feat, Inspire Greatness (one ally)

12      Aid Confidance

13      

14      Expert Coordination, Inspire Greatness (two allies)

15      Bonus Class Skill, Bonus Feat, Inspire Peace

16      Aid Consistancy, Inspire Confidence +4

17      Inspire Greatness (three allies)

18      Master Explainer, Skill Mastery

19      Bonus Feat

20      Coordinate Feats, Inspire Confidence +5, Bonus Class Skill, Inspire Greatness (four allies)

Hit Die: d8

Average BAB

Good reflex and will saves

Skill Points: 6+int (x4 at first level)

Skill List: Appraise (int), Bluff (cha), Diplomacy (cha), Gather Information (cha), Intimidate (cha), Knowledge (all, each taken individually) (int), Listen (wis), Perform (cha), Ride (dex), Sense Motive (wis)

A noble is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Bonus Class Skill: At each indicated level, a noble may choose any skill to become a class skill.

Favor (ex): After years of forging connections with a variety of people, it's about time you make use of every last one. You may call in favors a number of times per week equal to half your Noble level rounded down (minimum one). Calling in a favor takes one hour to attempt. Roll a d20 and add your noble level and your charisma bonus to the roll. You may add a +2 bonus to the roll by spending additional favor uses for each extra spent. The DC for this varies depending on the type of favor asked. You do not automatically succeed on a natural 20 nor do you automatically fail on a natural 1.

   Borrow equipment-Select a piece of equipment you would like to borrow from your contact. The equipment may be any magical or mundane item. DC 10+ twice the desired equipment's item level. You may borrow the equipment for one day, after which you must return the borrowed equipment. Add 1 to the DC for each additional piece of equipment with an equal or lesser item level that you wish to borrow. Add 1 to the DC for each additional day you wish to borrow the desired equipment.

   Acquire service-Select an NPC you wish to have accompany you on your adventure. This character has levels in a single NPC class of your choice. You may describe a particular area of expertise, however the specifics of the character are up to your DM's digression. The character will accompany you for one day and asks that you provide the necessary equipment for any tasks you want accomplished. After this time, the NPC returns home. DC 15+twice the desired character's level. Add 1 to the DC for each additional day you wish the NPC to accompany you. Add 1 to the DC for each additional character of equal or lower level you wish to accompany you. Add 2 to the DC if you want the character to bring their own equipment, supplies, or material components.

   More specialized favors; such as providing lodging, travel, information; can most likely be accomplished through appropriate descriptions of the type of favor and use of the two previous options. Anything not covered but can be reasonably accommodated is under DM digression such as having a new law passed, pardoning a prisoner, setting up or disbanding organizations. You DM can set the DC for these types of favors as deemed appropriate. Success or failure of a mission should not rest solely on the use of a favor nor should they be used to completely circumvent the use of other skills and abilities to accomplish tasks. That is, it is inappropriate to politely ask the evil wizard to quit his job because you have connections with his minion union.

   It becomes more difficult to actually locate anyone you've had contact with in lesser populated areas. You take a -2 penalty to make favors in rural areas. You may be able to find people traveling outside of population centers. Unpopulated areas just outside of villages and towns force a -5 penalty to make favors. Barren areas, such as arctic wastes, deserts, the open sea, make it impossible to locate anyone to make favors with normally. If you actually find somebody in this sort of area, you may attempt to make a favor at a -20 penalty.

   If, while taking advantage of a favor, you cause unnecessary damage or destruction to the life or property you are making use of; you take a cumulative -2 penalty to any future attempts to take favors. This includes and is not limited to the loss, breakage, or unwillingness to return borrowed property or leaving those in service of you injured, killed, or left to their own devices. You may avoid this penalty by paying off the value of the property borrowed or maintaining the health of people you've asked help from. These penalties last until you make proper reparations for the misdeeds and six months after. The character wronged by your actions may no longer desire to perform favors for you.

Inspiration: As a swift action a number of times per day equal to your noble level, you may activate any of the following abilities. They each are active for a number of rounds equal to 5+your charisma modifier rounds. These are mind effecting, language dependent abilities. They effect anyone that can hear and see the noble.

Inspire Confidence - Any ally that hears you gains a +1 competence bonus on saving throws and a +1 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls. These bonuses increase to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 11, +4 at level 16, and +5 at level 20.

Inspire Failure - Make an aid another check targeting an enemy using an ability check. The target must make a will save at a DC equal to the check result. The target gains a penalty to the ability score equal to the bonus that would be provided by the aid another action, a successful will save reduces that by half. This cannot reduce the ability score below 1.

Inpsire Greatness - You may inspire greatness in as many allies as indicated in the table. This ability provides two bonus temporary hit die (2d10, apply the target's constitution modifier), the commensurate number of temporary hit points, a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls and a +2 morale bonus to saving throws for 5+your charisma modifier rounds.

Inspire Peace - Your words halt conflict providing valuable time to negotiate. Anyone that this ability can effect must make a will save at a DC equal to 10+1/2 your noble level+your charisma modifier or act as if effected by the calm emotions and sanctuary spells (the will save for the sanctuary effect is the same as the original DC).

Bonus Feat: At each indicated level, you may select a feat from the following list: Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Autonomous, Deceitful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Investigator, Magical Aptitude, Negotiator, Nimble Fingers, Open Minded, Persuasive, Psionic Affinity, Self Sufficient, Skill Focus, Stealthy, Toughness

Coordinator: You are a master of making people work together. When taking an action to aid another, you grant a bonus equal to one fifth of your skill check result instead of the usual +2 bonus.

Distant Aid: Actions may speak louder than words, but your words can create profound action. You may use an aid another action as if you were 5ft per noble level closer to the recipient of the action.

Improved Coordination (ex): At level 6, you are able to spread your advice and expertise with greater ease. Any action you are able to provide aid for with a standard action may now be done with a move action.

Lingering advice: Your words echo in your allies' minds long after you finish your piece. Those who would receive a bonus from your aid another action may apply that bonus at any time within a number of rounds equal to one tenth your aid another check result rounded down (minimum one round). They still must use the bonus at the first instant it is relevant, however a character with multiple bonuses pending from this ability may choose to use only one such bonus and retain the rest for future use.

Crowd Coordination: When you provide a bonus from an aid another check, you may have any number of allies within 30ft of gain the bonus as well.

Skill Mastery: at level 10 and again at level 18, select a number of skills equal to 3+your intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

Aid Confidence: Anyone with a pending bonus from one of your aid another actions gain a +1 competence bonus on all d20 rolls for each such bonus.

Expert Coordination: Your words and gestures provide volumes of information. At level 14, you can perform an aid another action as an immediate action.

Aid Consistency: With your help, nerves are calmed taking chance out of tasks in the most stressful situations. Anyone using the bonus from one of your aid another actions may choose to take 10 on the check.

Master Explainer: You can make everything sound so easy that a cave man could do it. And they can. Anyone you help through an aid another action may make that skill check as if they had a half rank in the skill as long as you have atleast a half rank in that skill.

Coordinate Feats: You may choose to provide use of any feat you know instead of a bonus to a check from your aid another action. To do so, make a DC10 intelligence check. If you succeed, the target of your action gains use of a single feat you know for one round.

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Thoughts, comments, critiques, complaints, etc. are welcome and appreciated. I'm mostly wondering if favor makes sense, everything seems to have some value for the class, and whether or not the class would be worth using.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:05:52 PM by Cannotthink »

Garryl

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Re: Noble (3.5)
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 02:11:30 AM »
Coordinate as written does not seem to be as you intend it to work. It gives a bonus to making the flat DC 10 Aid Another checks, rather than the benefit provided by succeeding on those checks (which Improved Coordinate would seem to imply). Even if it boosted the bonus, you're either giving small boosts to skill checks (about on par with a Bard's Inspire Competence until 12th) or wasting your turns in combat instead of being a competent warrior or spellcaster. Making Coordinate let you Aid Another at range and as a swift action could make it worthwhile.

Greater Inspire Confidence is listed at level 15 on the table, but does not exist in the description. Inspire Confidence itself is like a watered down version of Inspire Courage, having half the uses per day (or less), coming later, and not having the support of the various boosters (like Song of the Heart, Dragonfire Inspiration, Inspirational Boost, and the Badge of Courage). Moving it up to 1st level, giving it more uses earlier on, and letting it count as and benefit from anything that boosts Inspire Courage and/or Bardic Music would help. Getting extra rounds of duration is a nice touch, but isn't particularly relevant most of the time (5 rounds is enough for most encounters).

Favor is unimpressive. At level 20, with a Charisma of 32 (+11 modifier), you can take 10 to get a check of 41 or burn every Favor use for the week to get a 59. That's just good enough for a level 19 NPC to follow you around for the week, or the services of a 22nd level NPC for one day. The 22nd level one might be useful if it was an Adept that cheesed its way into Epic Spellcasting, but otherwise you can do better with Leadership (or a Commoner 19/Thrallherd 1, which can be done, and doesn't even require you to treat the thralls nicely). You can't even get a 1st level NPC reliably until you have a +7 modifier (3rd level with 18 Charisma), or +13 if you want him all week (6th level, 20 Charisma with a +2 item, and burning one of your spare Favor uses). If you just made it equal to Leadership but with the stipulation that your followers and cohort can't help you out in combat EVER, you'd be far better off.

It looks about equal to a Bard without spells, and there's an argument to be made that a spell-less Bard is still better. Mostly (but not entirely) better than an Expert. Probably tier 5 (maybe tier 4 if you include the permanent assistance of an Adept a couple levels lower than you that Favor eventually grants at the higher levels). I'd call it an NPC class if it didn't almost strictly overshadow the Aristocrat.

Sorry if I'm coming off a bit harsh. It looks like an interesting concept but this incarnation of it doesn't pull it off well enough to impress me. If you want to make it a bit more impressive, I'd like to see what you come up with and/or toss out some ideas of my own. Aid Another could certainly be an interesting mechanic to play with if done right.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 02:13:18 AM by Garryl »
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General listing of my homebrew.
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[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
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Cannotthink

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Re: Noble (3.5)
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 12:09:57 PM »
I've got no problem with harsh criticism. If the whole thing needs to be killed a few times to become decent, then it must be done.

Yeah, the wording for coordinate does seem a little messed up. As for having it do something a bit more useful, I could see plenty of good to be done with effective aiding done often. There shouldn't be a problem with being able to aid another faster and earlier as a noble. I'll probably change coordinate from giving a straight but increasing bonus into something like granting a bonus equal to a quarter of the aid another check then switch all the bonus increases with more options for aiding.

I have no idea what happened with the greater inspire confidence. As for inspire confidence itself, I'll probably toy around with adding more uses early on. Probably allow uses to be spent towards other abilities too, such as inspire greatness among other things.

As for favor, I don't see what's so underwhelming with it. The same check gives you 5 lvl17 characters for the same week or ten 20th level items valued at around 900k. If a higher check is desired, there's still the option to through in a level of marshal to motivate charisma. Of course leadership can easily give a single better cohort, but there's nothing preventing doing both for a nice sidekick and a swarm of big vanilla guys. That's mostly my thoughts while making the ability anyway.

As for a tad more flexibility and diversity for favor, more stuff could probably be spelled out with some proper DCs. I'll try and think up some fancy things to add. I had a few other options in there earlier, but I thought they were redundant considering you could get some adept you wanted help from to do it anyway.

I'll keep playing around with ideas, probably repost some changes soon enough.

SiggyDevil

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Re: Noble (3.5)
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 02:16:55 PM »
Maybe you should emulate spell effects but as Extraordinary abilities.

For instance, the ability to produce any item (from appropriate carriers such as a minion's bag or horse) would be Minor Creation, while an easily constructed small housing (built by retainers of course) would be Secure Shelter.

Cannotthink

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Re: Noble (3.5)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 07:07:17 PM »
Added in stuff. Altered others. Take a look.