Author Topic: Metamagic and You: A Thesis  (Read 175111 times)

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WarlockLord

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #160 on: July 02, 2011, 08:44:32 PM »
On the much-loved anima mage: I'd like to point out that Tenebrous grants turn or rebuke undead.  Anyone come up with a divine metamagic usage for him?  I'm still trying to find a good way to turn arcane spells to divine without having to be a human from the forgotten realms.

Also, you can enter without losing a CL by using the Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige feats.

McPoyo

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #161 on: July 02, 2011, 11:35:11 PM »
Can't use Tenebrous for DMM. DMM requires level adjustment+1 turn attempts, and Tenebrous only allows you to use one every 4 or 5 rounds, depending on if you have that one feat.
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Empirate

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #162 on: July 03, 2011, 01:59:22 PM »
Also, DMM only works on divine spells (check the Errata), so at the very least you'd need Southern Magician on top of everything else.

nijineko

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #163 on: July 31, 2011, 06:17:20 PM »
elder giant magic feat from secrets of xen'dric is a general feat not a metamagic feat but it increases the caster level by up to +3. and could be useful in conjunction with heighten, sanctum, circle magic, and similar.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #165 on: September 06, 2011, 07:16:14 PM »
First, a version without SCM :

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Contemplative 3/Mindbender 1/Prestige Paladin 1 Not in that order.  What this nets, with the Midnight Metamagic trick above, is 5 free levels of metamagic, a free metamagic feat per spell since you're also considered a Cleric of Mystra, access to Initiate of Mystra, a reduction of 1 per metamagic feat from Improved Metamagic, and after you throw on the standard (+10 or so) CL boosters on top of Mystic Fire Knight, you can easily create a class 10 or greater Node.  Total : 10-11 free levels of metamagic, 1 free metamagic feat, -1 level cost per feat, triple digit CL, and toggle switch Arcane Spellsurge thanks to Battle Blessing.  Go full monty with Spell Swap and Uncanny Foresight to be able to quick cast anything.

SCM would sub out Prestige Paladin and Contemplative, and possibly Mindbender.  Or leave in Contemplative at the expense of a Wizard level or two, using early entry, to keep IoM, and then take Arcane Thesis (Silent Image).  Now all that reduction and bonus metamagic can be focused on one spot, namely Shadow Greater Effect Miracle.
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Wings of Peace

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #166 on: September 06, 2011, 10:05:08 PM »
No mention of the Dragon Magazine Mind Mage at all?  Sure it loses a few levels of Wizard but Compensation combined with infinite or mass power point hi-jinx is basically a giant "Free Metamagic" button.  For an arcane focused build just fulfill the requirements using Ardent and Practiced Manifester. Hell, being Dragon Mag. material it's more official than the Metaphysical Spell Shaper is.

For the reading pleasure of the unfamiliar: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:09:36 PM by Wings of Peace »

KellKheraptis

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #167 on: September 06, 2011, 10:40:15 PM »
No mention of the Dragon Magazine Mind Mage at all?  Sure it loses a few levels of Wizard but Compensation combined with infinite or mass power point hi-jinx is basically a giant "Free Metamagic" button.  For an arcane focused build just fulfill the requirements using Ardent and Practiced Manifester. Hell, being Dragon Mag. material it's more official than the Metaphysical Spell Shaper is.

For the reading pleasure of the unfamiliar: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm

I already have a Mind Mage akin to this, too, in the CL boosting thread :)
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Wings of Peace

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #168 on: September 07, 2011, 12:25:04 AM »
No mention of the Dragon Magazine Mind Mage at all?  Sure it loses a few levels of Wizard but Compensation combined with infinite or mass power point hi-jinx is basically a giant "Free Metamagic" button.  For an arcane focused build just fulfill the requirements using Ardent and Practiced Manifester. Hell, being Dragon Mag. material it's more official than the Metaphysical Spell Shaper is.

For the reading pleasure of the unfamiliar: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm

I already have a Mind Mage akin to this, too, in the CL boosting thread :)

I saw that actually!  But for completeness and the casual googlers who come across this it seems like it should be mentioned here as well.

Edit: Something else fairly fun about the Mind Mage, Focus of Discipline combined with Miracle (gained however you like).  

Use Focus of Discipline to lower Miracle to a 1st level slot, cast Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer via Miracle(to negate the 10 min casting time and material component requirements) and prepare 3 additional spells one of which will be another Miracle.  Congratulations, you can now completely refresh your spells whenever you like.  Make the second spell slot a Timestop and you can now replenish your spells even during combat!  It's a late game trick but it's pretty decent as far as late game tricks go.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 12:46:09 AM by Wings of Peace »

JaronK

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #169 on: September 07, 2011, 05:48:05 PM »
Just to throw out the ultimate metamagic build if you want to throw it in the builds section:

Archivist 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage.  Take the Tainted Sorcerer level as soon as you're sure you'll always make the save (getting a Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind is the easiest method). 

The result is that you lose one casting level, but as long as you bind Naberius you can metamatic any spells you want all day long.  You can even occasionally cast spells as immediate actions, which is fun.  It's pretty much the most insane metamagic build ever.

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #170 on: September 07, 2011, 08:43:40 PM »
Just to throw out the ultimate metamagic build if you want to throw it in the builds section:

Archivist 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage.  Take the Tainted Sorcerer level as soon as you're sure you'll always make the save (getting a Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind is the easiest method). 

The result is that you lose one casting level, but as long as you bind Naberius you can metamatic any spells you want all day long.  You can even occasionally cast spells as immediate actions, which is fun.  It's pretty much the most insane metamagic build ever.

JaronK
It is too bad Tainted Sorcerer has that whole " A tainted sorcerer cannot enhance a spell to a level higher than she can cast by this mean" bit. That doesn't mean it isn't useful, just more limited. Of course, you shouldn't have to worry about that too much because Persistent Unfettered Heroism covers using Vestige Metamagic as many times as you like per day. This means you only have to use Tainted Metamagic while your Vestige Metamagic is on recharge.
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