Author Topic: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?  (Read 3913 times)

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dirkformica

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If a character uses something like Summon Monster or Nature's Ally, it's normally a 1 round action.  So I think the sequence goes like this:

1.)  Summoner Casts spell.
2.)  The creature will appear the next round after casting just before the summoner's action for the round.  
3.)  It then acts on the Summoner's initiative for the duration of the spell.

What I'm not sure of is if the creature gets an action during that brief time between 2 and 3.  So if a creature would be summoned for, say, 10 rounds, could it get 10 actions or just 9?

wotmaniac

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 11:02:27 PM »
1st -- I think that this could have been handled by the Simple Q&A thread  ;)  (I'm just saying :p )

the only way that it would get only 9 rounds worth of actions (to use your example), would be if the casting time counted against its actions -- this is not the case.
There's nothing in between steps 2 & 3 ... it showing up just before the start of your turn is what allows it to act on your initiative ... it gets to act for 10 rounds (again, using your example) after it shows up (i.e., after the completion of the casting)

as a side note .... while it is not spelled out, I would say that they arrive flat-footed until they act.  for example, if an enemy realized that you were summoning a creature, and readied an action to attack for when that creature arrived, I believe that that attack would catch the summoned creature flat-footed (but that is purely my own conjecture ... I don't know if the idea has ever been discussed)

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Bozwevial

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 11:12:59 PM »
Actually, the summoned creature "appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn." The comma makes me think that it doesn't show up just before your turn starts; it's a rather odd placement otherwise.

veekie

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 02:43:56 AM »
Actually, the summoned creature "appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn." The comma makes me think that it doesn't show up just before your turn starts; it's a rather odd placement otherwise.
I think it means to say that while it acts immediately, the full round casting would normally conclude at the start of your next turn, so it acts on YOUR turn without interrupting your turn.
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Bozwevial

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 03:15:52 AM »
Actually, the summoned creature "appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn." The comma makes me think that it doesn't show up just before your turn starts; it's a rather odd placement otherwise.
I think it means to say that while it acts immediately, the full round casting would normally conclude at the start of your next turn, so it acts on YOUR turn without interrupting your turn.
Right, I'm just trying to place the arrival of the creature. Normally there'd be no need for that comma.

dna1

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2010, 08:59:28 PM »
Should be as follows right?
*turn start*
1.Casts the summon. which takes your full action.
 1a. monster/s appear and uses action.
*end of turn*


So idk if i missed some small detail or something, but from my understanding as is now, it takes your full action to cast and it comes into play and gets an immediate action. So wouldnt it still appear in the same turn you cast it?
Your technically not still casting the spell when the next turn starts right? So then wouldnt it act before the next turn?
Thats just how I am perceiving it.. My group plays like that as well.
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Bozwevial

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 09:20:35 PM »
Well, the thing about the Summon Monster spells is that they don't actually have a full-round casting time, they have a 1-round casting time. As in, it takes an entire round (from your initiative count until it occurs again) to complete the spell, which gives time to disrupt it.

So I think it runs basically like:

Count 20 (or whatever): You start casting the spell.
Counts 19 onward: Other stuff happens.
Count 20 again: You finish the spell and take actions normally. Your summoned monster appears somewhere in this count.

veekie

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 04:56:08 AM »
Should be as follows right?
*turn start*
1.Casts the summon. which takes your full action.
 1a. monster/s appear and uses action.
*end of turn*
More like
*Turn start*
1. Begin casting
*Turn end*
2. Other people move
*Turn start*
3. Casting concludes
3.1 Monster appears
3.2 Monsters act
3.3 You act
*Turn ends*
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
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RobbyPants

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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 10:03:44 AM »
Yeah.  What Veekie said.

Just like Sleep, the duration is one entire round, not a full-round action.

From the SRD:
Quote from: SRD
Summon Monster I

Conjuration (Summoning) [see text]
Level:   Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components:   V, S, F/DF
Casting Time:   1 round
Range:   Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect:   One summoned creature
Duration:   1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw:   None
Spell Resistance:   No

So, basically, you do nothing but cast for your turn, hope you don't get interrupted after your turn, and then at the beginning of your next turn, the summoned monster appears and acts, and you get to take your next turn normally.


Now, there are other ways around this.  For example, if using Unearthed Arcana, you can take the Rapid Summoning Variant (at the cost of your familiar) to be able to summon as a standard action.  Then you can cast and have your creature act on your turn, and not have to worry about interruption.  Note that the summoned creature only gets a standard action on their first round.
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Re: Do Summoned Creatures Get an Action on the Round They're Summoned?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 07:00:00 PM »
I'm betraying a bit of ignorance here (like that hasn't happened before) ...

but the difference between
1 Full Action ... and
1 Round a.k.a. 1 Full Round
was always lost on me, but now I see the difference ...

although I'm a little shaky on when during a Round's count, the various stuff happens.
Maybe I'm suffering from 3.0e withdrawal  ;) ?