Author Topic: Evaluate these house rules.  (Read 18833 times)

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lans

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2011, 08:10:10 PM »
Shut the fuck up about the goddamned useless waste of space Pathfailureesque distraction and diversion that is beatstick feats. :fo
Explain how its Pathfailureesque?
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Bauglir

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2011, 08:11:42 PM »
Shut the fuck up about the goddamned useless waste of space Pathfailureesque distraction and diversion that is beatstick feats. :fo
Explain how its Pathfailureesque?

Using Sunic logic: Bonus feats exist in Pathfailure. You're suggesting bonus feats as part of a larger solution. Therefore...

EDIT: To not be a complete douche, though, I like a lot of these rules, and am bodily ripping off some of them. Not because I think it's a wise strategy to take parts of what's meant to be a holistic ruleset and incorporate them into another game without any consideration, but because they're genuinely interesting ideas that didn't occur to me, but actually do happen to be balanced with what I'm aiming for.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 08:13:35 PM by Bauglir »
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2011, 08:24:13 PM »
Shut the fuck up about the goddamned useless waste of space Pathfailureesque distraction and diversion that is beatstick feats. :fo
Explain how its Pathfailureesque?

Bonus feats don't really help that much. If they did, well the Fighter wouldn't be a fail class, now would it?

Pathfailure is notorious for giving classes a bunch of shiny but useless features, that don't help, but trick the gullible into thinking they help.

Therefore, doing so is a Pathfailureesque distraction. Actually fixing the problem is the goal.

Actually fixing the problem is what I did. It has no conceptual space, and is only there for people that need a random feat or want to knock people into walls. So... it does that.

Ignoring more Fail.
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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

lans

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2011, 10:31:29 PM »
Bonus feats don't really help that much. If they did, well the Fighter wouldn't be a fail class, now would it?

Pathfailure is notorious for giving classes a bunch of shiny but useless features, that don't help, but trick the gullible into thinking they help.
It wasn't intended to help much, it was intended as a boost that would let people skip the need to take Fighter. Barbarian 2 under this system>Fighter in all aspects. If a person has a crazy lockdown build that required every feat 20 levels of Fighter had he could still do it, and do what a Barbarian 20 does.

You said Rogue did fine, is adding 11 bonus feats to it going to suddenly make it fail?
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2011, 10:07:58 AM »
Does anyone else have something to add besides the same repeated fail?
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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

wotmaniac

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2011, 10:44:57 AM »
Does anyone else have something to add besides the same repeated fail?
um, hey dude ... it seems like he is genuinely trying to understand. 
He is obviously seeing things from a different perspective, and is trying to understand the specifics of "the method behind your madness", so to speak.
They seem like legit questions.  Besides, the title of the thread has invited you to be subject to the "fail" (your term, not mine). 


side note: why is this not in the Homebrew forum?

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #106 on: February 21, 2011, 11:00:09 AM »
Does anyone else have something to add besides the same repeated fail?
um, hey dude ... it seems like he is genuinely trying to understand. 
He is obviously seeing things from a different perspective, and is trying to understand the specifics of "the method behind your madness", so to speak.
They seem like legit questions.  Besides, the title of the thread has invited you to be subject to the "fail" (your term, not mine). 


side note: why is this not in the Homebrew forum?

The goal is to both get actual traffic looking over it, and to analyze these from a CO perspective. So this is the right place. Repeating questions that have already been answered, more than once is indeed Fail.
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And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2011, 11:06:32 AM »
Bonus feats don't really help that much. If they did, well the Fighter wouldn't be a fail class, now would it?

Pathfailure is notorious for giving classes a bunch of shiny but useless features, that don't help, but trick the gullible into thinking they help.
It wasn't intended to help much, it was intended as a boost that would let people skip the need to take Fighter. Barbarian 2 under this system>Fighter in all aspects. If a person has a crazy lockdown build that required every feat 20 levels of Fighter had he could still do it, and do what a Barbarian 20 does.

You said Rogue did fine, is adding 11 bonus feats to it going to suddenly make it fail?

No, adding feats to something will not inherently worsen it. But you probably knew that, yes?

Kajhera

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #108 on: February 21, 2011, 11:21:49 AM »
Okay, here are my thoughts on the Ranged section.

Better heavy crossbows, composite crossbows: It would be hard to make these into anything problematic.
Ignoring armor: Makes crossbows more useful, normal AC less so. At least vs. crossbows.
Pull increasing: I think we play with this, or something similar but more handwaved. It's a good thing.
Sniper's Bowstring: Cleric archers love you. Anyone who happens to get hit with strength alterthings likes this in general, yep. I like cleric archers so my characters want this. It's priced as I would expect from deconstructing the one legacy weapon. I want this but it's not been accepted in my group.  :( Maybe I should just get the dang legacy weapon except it's already accounted for.

Overall: I might be more inclined to use a crossbow now...but why would I bother getting an actual bow before sixth level? The 20-30' range increment difference comes up rarely at best. Rapid Shot perhaps...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 11:24:12 AM by Kajhera »

lans

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #109 on: February 21, 2011, 11:32:26 PM »
Bonus feats don't really help that much. If they did, well the Fighter wouldn't be a fail class, now would it?

Pathfailure is notorious for giving classes a bunch of shiny but useless features, that don't help, but trick the gullible into thinking they help.
It wasn't intended to help much, it was intended as a boost that would let people skip the need to take Fighter. Barbarian 2 under this system>Fighter in all aspects. If a person has a crazy lockdown build that required every feat 20 levels of Fighter had he could still do it, and do what a Barbarian 20 does.

You said Rogue did fine, is adding 11 bonus feats to it going to suddenly make it fail?

No, adding feats to something will not inherently worsen it. But you probably knew that, yes?
Yes, I figure it could also help the rogue whether cover its bases. The Tier 1 casters can cover damn near every magical archtype at once. Martial characters should be able to do the same.
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2011, 09:08:46 AM »
Ignoring armor: Makes crossbows more useful, normal AC less so. At least vs. crossbows.

And crossbows have more of a feat tax, so it balances out.

Quote
Sniper's Bowstring: Cleric archers love you. Anyone who happens to get hit with strength alterthings likes this in general, yep. I like cleric archers so my characters want this. It's priced as I would expect from deconstructing the one legacy weapon. I want this but it's not been accepted in my group.  :( Maybe I should just get the dang legacy weapon except it's already accounted for.

Helps random beatsticks a lot more than Cleric Archers. After all the Cleric can just cast GMW on a random bow. The beatstick has to rebuild their entire bow every time they get +2 Str, and is screwed if they ever lose any amount of Str more than perhaps a single point for any reason. It's also not a Legacy item, it's a Relic. But yes, 1k is how much that Relic costs if you strip off all the random junk and just get the auto adjusting. End effect is you aren't forced to play a very narrow type of character just to use a damn bow.

Quote
Overall: I might be more inclined to use a crossbow now...but why would I bother getting an actual bow before sixth level? The 20-30' range increment difference comes up rarely at best. Rapid Shot perhaps...

Because you don't want to pay the feat tax. Because you don't want to pay the extra action costs.
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If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2011, 09:58:48 AM »
Ignoring armor: Makes crossbows more useful, normal AC less so. At least vs. crossbows.

And crossbows have more of a feat tax, so it balances out.

Quote
Sniper's Bowstring: Cleric archers love you. Anyone who happens to get hit with strength alterthings likes this in general, yep. I like cleric archers so my characters want this. It's priced as I would expect from deconstructing the one legacy weapon. I want this but it's not been accepted in my group.  :( Maybe I should just get the dang legacy weapon except it's already accounted for.

Helps random beatsticks a lot more than Cleric Archers. After all the Cleric can just cast GMW on a random bow. The beatstick has to rebuild their entire bow every time they get +2 Str, and is screwed if they ever lose any amount of Str more than perhaps a single point for any reason. It's also not a Legacy item, it's a Relic. But yes, 1k is how much that Relic costs if you strip off all the random junk and just get the auto adjusting. End effect is you aren't forced to play a very narrow type of character just to use a damn bow.

Quote
Overall: I might be more inclined to use a crossbow now...but why would I bother getting an actual bow before sixth level? The 20-30' range increment difference comes up rarely at best. Rapid Shot perhaps...

Because you don't want to pay the feat tax. Because you don't want to pay the extra action costs.

Yea, it looks pretty good thinking about it. ... You sure there isn't a legacy item with that enhancement?

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2011, 10:33:08 AM »
If there is, I've never heard of it. The original source is a Relic item. Which kind of occupies the same conceptual space, but not really.

Come to think of it, I'm having a hard time thinking of a Legacy bow, period. There's a lot of melee weapons, some lolfail crossbow, some armor, shields, a holy symbol, and various other items.
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And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

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Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

lans

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2011, 02:16:31 PM »
I don't think the class fixes go far enough. You say a rogue normally does fine, but I don't really see how. Unless its just at low level.

I figured tossing bonus feats onto them would work as a stop gap, provided you had good players.
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2011, 02:41:23 PM »
I don't think the class fixes go far enough. You say a rogue normally does fine, but I don't really see how. Unless its just at low level.

I figured tossing bonus feats onto them would work as a stop gap, provided you had good players.

Flask Rogues work ok. The rest fail. But hey, you're a beatstick. If you wanted variety and choices, you'd go elsewhere.
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If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2011, 02:43:41 PM »
Come to think of it, I'm having a hard time thinking of a Legacy bow, period. There's a lot of melee weapons, some lolfail crossbow, some armor, shields, a holy symbol, and various other items.
There are at least two, IIRC. One is for psionic characters and the other...probably for stealthy-types.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2011, 02:50:23 PM »
Then I guess they were so weak and unremarkable so as to be completely forgettable. Unsurprising.
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If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

lans

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2011, 04:11:08 PM »
I don't think the class fixes go far enough. You say a rogue normally does fine, but I don't really see how. Unless its just at low level.

I figured tossing bonus feats onto them would work as a stop gap, provided you had good players.

 If you wanted variety and choices, you'd go elsewhere.
I see this as a problem that could be addressed. Not a huge one, and scrapping Fighter as an independent class and tacking it on to them would go a ways to solve it.  Even if its just the first 6 levels like you've been doing.

This isn't the best fix, and maybe not even a good one but at the very least its an easy one.

Giving the Rogue earlier access to its specials might be good. So instead of prestige classing out at 6 it can get one of its special abilities. Even earlier might be nice.
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Kajhera

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2011, 09:48:22 PM »
Come to think of it, I'm having a hard time thinking of a Legacy bow, period. There's a lot of melee weapons, some lolfail crossbow, some armor, shields, a holy symbol, and various other items.
There are at least two, IIRC. One is for psionic characters and the other...probably for stealthy-types.

Ah, found it. Stalker's Bow (WoL 158) has adjustable draw, but apparently as a 5th-level legacy ability; I must've been getting the pricing from the relic you're thinking of, or some such.

Midnight_v

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Re: Evaluate these house rules.
« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2011, 04:19:01 AM »
Best houserules ever, I wish there was more sunic around. . .  :(
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